Place names

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
8 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Place names

prculley
Quick question, should the primary place name ALSO be a member of the alternative names list?

The current code does not put it there when the Place is created, but when a merge occurs, if the merged item has the identical name, then it is added to the alternative names list.

So we sometimes get the primary name in the alt names, and sometimes not...

Paul Culley

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Place names

DS Blank
On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 12:24 PM, Paul Culley <[hidden email]> wrote:
Quick question, should the primary place name ALSO be a member of the alternative names list?

The current code does not put it there when the Place is created, but when a merge occurs, if the merged item has the identical name, then it is added to the alternative names list.

So we sometimes get the primary name in the alt names, and sometimes not...

I don't think the current code base would work as intended if the primary place name were also in the alternative place name list. But others know the Place system better than I do.

-Doug
 


Paul Culley

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Place names

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by prculley
On 10/05/16 17:24, Paul Culley wrote:
> Quick question, should the primary place name ALSO be a member of the
> alternative names list?
>
> The current code does not put it there when the Place is created, but
> when a merge occurs, if the merged item has the identical name, then
> it is added to the alternative names list.
>
> So we sometimes get the primary name in the alt names, and sometimes
> not...

There is no real difference between a primary name and an alternative
name.  A full list of names is obtained by appending the list of
alternative names to the primary name.

The place displayer processes all names.  If more than one name matches
the required date range and language, then the first one will be used.  
So the primary name will take precedence.  The primary name can be
considered as the first name in a list.

The place editor provides a quick way to edit the primary name.  The
tree view uses the primary name in the hierarchy.  We could consider
changing either of these.

During a merge, all names in the source should be matched against all
names in the target.  If there is no match, then the name should be
added to the list of alternative names.  Date ranges must be considered
during the matching.  There are cases where a place changes name and
then changes back again.

For example, you could have the following:

Primary name:

Санкт-Петербу́рг (1991-) []

Alternative names:

Санкт-Петербу́рг (1703-1914) []
Петрогра́д (1914-1924) []
Ленингра́д (1924-1991) []
Saint Petersburg (1703-1914) [en]
Petrograd (1914-1924) [en]
Leningrad (1924-1991) [en]
Saint Petersburg (1991-) [en]

The place displayer will use the entry with the appropriate date range
and language code.  The place tree view will use "Санкт-Петербу́рг".


Nick.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Place names

prculley
Nick said:
"During a merge, all names in the source should be matched against all
names in the target.  If there is no match, then the name should be
added to the list of alternative names.  Date ranges must be considered
during the matching.  There are cases where a place changes name and
then changes back again."

So I think this answers my question.  If during a merge all names in source are matched to all names in target, then a new primary name that matched the existing primary name would NOT get added to the alt names list.

I will modify my proposed patch accordingly.

Paul Culley

On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 11:53 AM, Nick Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 10/05/16 17:24, Paul Culley wrote:
> Quick question, should the primary place name ALSO be a member of the
> alternative names list?
>
> The current code does not put it there when the Place is created, but
> when a merge occurs, if the merged item has the identical name, then
> it is added to the alternative names list.
>
> So we sometimes get the primary name in the alt names, and sometimes
> not...

There is no real difference between a primary name and an alternative
name.  A full list of names is obtained by appending the list of
alternative names to the primary name.

The place displayer processes all names.  If more than one name matches
the required date range and language, then the first one will be used.
So the primary name will take precedence.  The primary name can be
considered as the first name in a list.

The place editor provides a quick way to edit the primary name.  The
tree view uses the primary name in the hierarchy.  We could consider
changing either of these.

During a merge, all names in the source should be matched against all
names in the target.  If there is no match, then the name should be
added to the list of alternative names.  Date ranges must be considered
during the matching.  There are cases where a place changes name and
then changes back again.

For example, you could have the following:

Primary name:

Санкт-Петербу́рг (1991-) []

Alternative names:

Санкт-Петербу́рг (1703-1914) []
Петрогра́д (1914-1924) []
Ленингра́д (1924-1991) []
Saint Petersburg (1703-1914) [en]
Petrograd (1914-1924) [en]
Leningrad (1924-1991) [en]
Saint Petersburg (1991-) [en]

The place displayer will use the entry with the appropriate date range
and language code.  The place tree view will use "Санкт-Петербу́рг".


Nick.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Place names

Nick Hall
On 10/05/16 18:00, Paul Culley wrote:
> So I think this answers my question.  If during a merge all names in
> source are matched to all names in target, then a new primary name
> that matched the existing primary name would NOT get added to the alt
> names list.

Correct.  If the value, date range and language are the same for both
then a duplicate should not be added to the alternative names list.

Nick.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Place names

jerome
In reply to this post by prculley
Nick,

Maybe a minor design issue.

If I understand right, we should rather fill a range of dates
for alternate names, because this will display intelligent
place names for events.

e,g,. place_displayer.display_event(db, event)

I sometimes use "before" or "after" a year (I do not always know
periods), and this does not match. I thought that using only a year
was an alternative, but it does not match too.

To fill the same date as the event, will do the trick and this will
not work for others events on the same place but some days
after or before!

So, maybe the common free form field/widget for editing
any type of date can generate an unwanted return: alternate
place name does not match.

Also, the "lang" based rules should be for text or label name
because the locale stuff can lead to confusion (geography/area vs politic or culture)
e.g., In Belgium, Switzerland, Canada, India, etc ... even Spain, France or Ireland


Jérôme


--------------------------------------------
En date de : Mar 10.5.16, Nick Hall <[hidden email]> a écrit :

 Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] Place names
 À: [hidden email]
 Date: Mardi 10 mai 2016, 18h53
 
 The place displayer processes all names. If more than one name
 matches the required date range and
 language, then the first one will be used. 

[..]
 
 Nick.
 
 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mobile security can be enabling, not merely
 restricting. Employees who
 bring their own
 devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
 restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows
 you to control only the
 apps on BYO-devices
 by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
 https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
 _______________________________________________
 Gramps-devel mailing list
 [hidden email]
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Place names

Nick Hall
On 12/05/16 15:09, jerome wrote:

> If I understand right, we should rather fill a range of dates
> for alternate names, because this will display intelligent
> place names for events.
>
> e,g,. place_displayer.display_event(db, event)
>
> I sometimes use "before" or "after" a year (I do not always know
> periods), and this does not match. I thought that using only a year
> was an alternative, but it does not match too.
>

Correct.

You can use "before", "after", "from" or "between" to define date
ranges.  The place displayer uses exact matching for "before" and
"after", ignoring the date ranges set in the preferences.

Specifying a date with only a year part will mean 1st January of that year.


Nick.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Place names

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by jerome
On 12/05/16 15:09, jerome wrote:
> Also, the "lang" based rules should be for text or label name
> because the locale stuff can lead to confusion (geography/area vs politic or culture)
> e.g., In Belgium, Switzerland, Canada, India, etc ... even Spain, France or Ireland

When used to display the endonym or English exonym it works quite well.  
However, feedback from people who have more advanced requirements would
be interesting.


Nick.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel