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Places Title .. more info

Rhonda
Sorry, I signed up in digest and can't figure out how to respond to my initial post so am doing another one. 

Further information: I've added a "Marriage Event" and added a place, and when I open up the event to check the "Place" it shows [P0024] instead of the name of the "Place".

Hoping somebody can help me out before I get to far along and find I have to trash and start over.

Thanks
Rhonda

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Re: Places Title .. more info

Gazza
Try going to Edit-Preferences-Display and then setting Place Format to Automatic. You will need to restart Gramps for the change to be implemented. I'm not exactly sure what this is about but it is part of a recent change to Gramps whereby the Title is derived rather than using the Title field so the Title field no longer needs to be populated.

Cheers

On 28/04/15 13:18, Rhonda Lucas wrote:
Sorry, I signed up in digest and can't figure out how to respond to my initial post so am doing another one. 

Further information: I've added a "Marriage Event" and added a place, and when I open up the event to check the "Place" it shows [P0024] instead of the name of the "Place".

Hoping somebody can help me out before I get to far along and find I have to trash and start over.

Thanks
Rhonda


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Re: Places Title .. more info

Rhonda
Garry, worked a treat, thank you so much!

Rhonda 



On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 6:19 PM, Garry Seeley <[hidden email]> wrote:
Try going to Edit-Preferences-Display and then setting Place Format to Automatic. You will need to restart Gramps for the change to be implemented. I'm not exactly sure what this is about but it is part of a recent change to Gramps whereby the Title is derived rather than using the Title field so the Title field no longer needs to be populated.

Cheers


On 28/04/15 13:18, Rhonda Lucas wrote:
Sorry, I signed up in digest and can't figure out how to respond to my initial post so am doing another one. 

Further information: I've added a "Marriage Event" and added a place, and when I open up the event to check the "Place" it shows [P0024] instead of the name of the "Place".

Hoping somebody can help me out before I get to far along and find I have to trash and start over.

Thanks
Rhonda


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Re: Places Title .. more info

Rhonda
Rephrase that, addresses now show up in description in events, but they still aren't populating under 'titles' in Places, I'm still getting a blank line.  Any further ideas please?

Rhonda


On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 6:33 PM, Rhonda Lucas <[hidden email]> wrote:
Garry, worked a treat, thank you so much!

Rhonda 



On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 6:19 PM, Garry Seeley <[hidden email]> wrote:
Try going to Edit-Preferences-Display and then setting Place Format to Automatic. You will need to restart Gramps for the change to be implemented. I'm not exactly sure what this is about but it is part of a recent change to Gramps whereby the Title is derived rather than using the Title field so the Title field no longer needs to be populated.

Cheers


On 28/04/15 13:18, Rhonda Lucas wrote:
Sorry, I signed up in digest and can't figure out how to respond to my initial post so am doing another one. 

Further information: I've added a "Marriage Event" and added a place, and when I open up the event to check the "Place" it shows [P0024] instead of the name of the "Place".

Hoping somebody can help me out before I get to far along and find I have to trash and start over.

Thanks
Rhonda


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Re: Places Title .. more info

Gazza
From what (little) I understand we no longer need the Title field in Places to be populated as the Place in the Event (and reports etc..) is derived from the Place - Name, Type and the Enclosed by. Like I said I don't fully understand it but the Title field appears to be redundant to me. All of mine are blank, but the place is correct in my Events and reports.
Good luck.



On 28/04/15 17:33, Rhonda Lucas wrote:
Rephrase that, addresses now show up in description in events, but they still aren't populating under 'titles' in Places, I'm still getting a blank line.  Any further ideas please?

Rhonda


On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 6:33 PM, Rhonda Lucas <[hidden email]> wrote:
Garry, worked a treat, thank you so much!

Rhonda 



On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 6:19 PM, Garry Seeley <[hidden email]> wrote:
Try going to Edit-Preferences-Display and then setting Place Format to Automatic. You will need to restart Gramps for the change to be implemented. I'm not exactly sure what this is about but it is part of a recent change to Gramps whereby the Title is derived rather than using the Title field so the Title field no longer needs to be populated.

Cheers


On 28/04/15 13:18, Rhonda Lucas wrote:
Sorry, I signed up in digest and can't figure out how to respond to my initial post so am doing another one. 

Further information: I've added a "Marriage Event" and added a place, and when I open up the event to check the "Place" it shows [P0024] instead of the name of the "Place".

Hoping somebody can help me out before I get to far along and find I have to trash and start over.

Thanks
Rhonda


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Re: Places Title .. more info

Rhonda
Thanks Garry, I'll have to learn to live with that 'horrid' comma after a street number.



On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Garry Seeley <[hidden email]> wrote:
From what (little) I understand we no longer need the Title field in Places to be populated as the Place in the Event (and reports etc..) is derived from the Place - Name, Type and the Enclosed by. Like I said I don't fully understand it but the Title field appears to be redundant to me. All of mine are blank, but the place is correct in my Events and reports.
Good luck.



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Re: Places Title .. more info

enno
Rhonda,
> Thanks Garry, I'll have to learn to live with that 'horrid' comma
> after a street number.
You can avoid that by using a different tactic, which is using the full
street address, instead of putting number and street name in separate
location entries. It's a bit more work, but I need it for my country,
where we put the number behind the name, and I don't want Gramps to mess
that up.

cheers,

Enno


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Re: Places Title .. more info

ACProctor
I understand the reason for that Enno but it's not really the right solution
for the problem. Both your issue and the comma-after-number issue are
because Gramps is formatting a place-name-path from a place-hierarchy (using
STEMMA terminology). Doing as you've done lessens the benefits of using a
proper place-hierarchy. My solution to these same problems was to add some
formatting options that control the optional comma and the placement of a
house number.

    Tony Proctor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Enno Borgsteede" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2015 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Places Title .. more info


> Rhonda,
>> Thanks Garry, I'll have to learn to live with that 'horrid' comma
>> after a street number.
> You can avoid that by using a different tactic, which is using the full
> street address, instead of putting number and street name in separate
> location entries. It's a bit more work, but I need it for my country,
> where we put the number behind the name, and I don't want Gramps to mess
> that up.
>
> cheers,
>
> Enno
>
>
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users 


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Re: Places Title .. more info

enno
Tony,
> I understand the reason for that Enno but it's not really the right
> solution for the problem. Both your issue and the comma-after-number
> issue are because Gramps is formatting a place-name-path from a
> place-hierarchy (using STEMMA terminology). Doing as you've done
> lessens the benefits of using a proper place-hierarchy. My solution to
> these same problems was to add some formatting options that control
> the optional comma and the placement of a house number.
You're right, and this is one of the reasons why I'm still using Gramps
3.4 myself. Formatting options can solve this, but they're not easy to
develop in a program that addresses more than 3 dozen languages, and
even more countries.

I have the same problem with names, where William Gates III is built
right from given name, surname, and suffix, but Charles, Prince of Wales
requires a comma in the suffix part, and suppression of the family name.

cheers,

Enno


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Re: Places Title .. more info

ACProctor
They could be set as "personal style preferences", although I haven't
explored this myself yet.

Re: Personal Names, I treat that in a different way. Each person has a set
of names alternatives used for matching against records (incl. the spelling
variations, familiar forms, etc), and a different set used for canonical
output (e.g. when you want to print a short or long name for the person).
Each person also has a "title", too, where you can put non-name forms of
identification, e.g. parentheses maiden names, '/' between alternative
surname spellings, year of birth, "child-1" etc for unnamed infants.

The subject is a lot more complicated than many people think. This scheme is
basically working for me, although I have a couple of small tweaks still to
make. I tried to describe it back in
http://parallax-viewpoint.blogspot.ie/2014/08/the-game-of-name.html but it's
hard to explain without showing it in a public product.

    Tony

----- Original Message -----
From: "Enno Borgsteede" <[hidden email]>
To: "Tony Proctor" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2015 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Places Title .. more info


> Tony,
>> I understand the reason for that Enno but it's not really the right
>> solution for the problem. Both your issue and the comma-after-number
>> issue are because Gramps is formatting a place-name-path from a
>> place-hierarchy (using STEMMA terminology). Doing as you've done lessens
>> the benefits of using a proper place-hierarchy. My solution to these same
>> problems was to add some formatting options that control the optional
>> comma and the placement of a house number.
> You're right, and this is one of the reasons why I'm still using Gramps
> 3.4 myself. Formatting options can solve this, but they're not easy to
> develop in a program that addresses more than 3 dozen languages, and even
> more countries.
>
> I have the same problem with names, where William Gates III is built right
> from given name, surname, and suffix, but Charles, Prince of Wales
> requires a comma in the suffix part, and suppression of the family name.
>
> cheers,
>
> Enno
>


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Re: Places Title .. more info

jan bullock
In reply to this post by Rhonda
*In my honest opinion this sucks big time.

If you change to automatic, you don't see a place name on the person
your entering data after saving what you've entered. Using the place
field you can't see the entire place you've entered.

They need to revert this back to what it used to be/the way it was. I
know of no program that you have to add that much data in multiple
places just to be able to have a record show up correctly in your genealogy.

I've reverted to using gramps linux portable on a persistent install of
an iso on a flash drive just to be able to work on some genealogy for
someone in Norway, and the newly minted marriage of my son's bride's family.

Not enough coffee yet today, hope this makes sense.

jan
*

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Re: Places Title .. more info

enno
jan,
> I've reverted to using gramps linux portable on a persistent install of
> an iso on a flash drive just to be able to work on some genealogy for
> someone in Norway, and the newly minted marriage of my son's bride's family.
If you want, you can also install 3.4.8 from this folder on SF:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/gramps/files/Stable/3.4.8/

On Windows, 3.4.8 can be installed next to 4.1, but on Linux that's not
easy. If you use that, and really want to go back, there is quite a risk
of information loss, because 3.4.8 can not read 4.1 trees, nor 4.1
backups, so the only way back is through a GEDCOM file.

Also, to avoid mix-up, you need to remove 4.1 first, and then install
3.4.8 from a .deb file installed from above site. That's needed, because
they both use the same start menu.

regards,

Enno


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Re: Places Title .. more info

Douglas Bainbridge
In reply to this post by Rhonda
Hi Rhonda,

For what it's worth, all you actually need, in order to have a visible record in various views, is to use the address by which you came across the place as the Place Title; and then repeat it (or a shortened version) as Place Name.
This leaves a lot of blank fields, but doesn't matter for many purposes.

There are pros and cons to automatic population of the place record. I prefer *not* to allow the Place Title to be constructed automatically but to enter it manually, precisely as I saw it on the actual record, because that's how I came across it at that time. I also try to locate the place on Google Maps and enter the latitude and longitude straight away - that at least fixes the position whatever it's called at different times. With the lat/long entered you'll be able to see the place plotted in the Geography views.  Locating it on Google Maps will also usually give you the entries for most of the other fields, that you can fill in (at leisure).
 
The advantage of the place hierarchy is being able to show the list of places as a Place Tree, i.e.  Places=>View=> Place Tree. However if you didn't enter some places records fully at first, their records show up conspicuously, e.g. St Marys Church next to Spain - so it's quite obvious you've got to fill up more details for St Marys Church and make it end up in England instead of standing as a country on its own.

Another advantage of the place hierarchy is supposed to be that you should be able to show that a place was known by different names at different times or belonged to different administrative categories or countries. It's not clear to me that this desirable sophistication is fully worked out and implemented yet - somebody else needs to comment here.

HTH

Doug




On 28/04/15 11:55, Rhonda Lucas wrote:
Thanks Garry, I'll have to learn to live with that 'horrid' comma after a street number.



On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Garry Seeley <[hidden email]> wrote:
From what (little) I understand we no longer need the Title field in Places to be populated as the Place in the Event (and reports etc..) is derived from the Place - Name, Type and the Enclosed by. Like I said I don't fully understand it but the Title field appears to be redundant to me. All of mine are blank, but the place is correct in my Events and reports.
Good luck.




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Re: Places Title .. more info

Tim Lyons
Administrator
In reply to this post by jan bullock
jan bullock wrote
*In my honest opinion this sucks big time.

If you change to automatic, you don't see a place name on the person
your entering data after saving what you've entered. Using the place
field you can't see the entire place you've entered.

They need to revert this back to what it used to be/the way it was. I
know of no program that you have to add that much data in multiple
places just to be able to have a record show up correctly in your genealogy.
I think the change to remove the auto-updating of Place was made as a result of bug #8057.

I wonder whether it might be better to implement the alternative suggestion in the bug, namely "change it so that the title is only updated if the current title matches what would have been auto-generated before whatever change has just been made, so that custom titles are not wiped out"

Regards,
Tim.
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Re: Places Title .. more info

Philip Weiss


On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 2:48 PM, Tim Lyons <[hidden email]> wrote:
jan bullock wrote
> *In my honest opinion this sucks big time.
>
> If you change to automatic, you don't see a place name on the person
> your entering data after saving what you've entered. Using the place
> field you can't see the entire place you've entered.
>
> They need to revert this back to what it used to be/the way it was. I
> know of no program that you have to add that much data in multiple
> places just to be able to have a record show up correctly in your
> genealogy.

I think the change to remove the auto-updating of Place was made as a result
of bug #8057.

I wonder whether it might be better to implement the alternative suggestion
in the bug, namely "change it so that the title is only updated if the
current title matches what would have been auto-generated before whatever
change has just been made, so that custom titles are not wiped out"


Either that or some kind of clicky-button to trigger an update/overwrite.

I didn't like auto-update as it made it harder to clean up the titles when I first upgraded from 4.0.  I use the 4.1 time-based auto-generated title feature now, but I do like to fill out title in case I need to turn off time-based auto-generated titles in the future.  Tim's suggestion or a clicky button would be helpful for that.

Phil. 

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Re: Places Title .. more info

jan bullock
In reply to this post by enno
*I can't install a deb package, running pclinuxos which uses rpm.



jan


*

> jan,
>  
>> I've reverted to using gramps linux portable on a persistent install of
>> an iso on a flash drive just to be able to work on some genealogy for
>> someone in Norway, and the newly minted marriage of my son's bride's family.
>>    
> If you want, you can also install 3.4.8 from this folder on SF:
>
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/gramps/files/Stable/3.4.8/
>
> On Windows, 3.4.8 can be installed next to 4.1, but on Linux that's not
> easy. If you use that, and really want to go back, there is quite a risk
> of information loss, because 3.4.8 can not read 4.1 trees, nor 4.1
> backups, so the only way back is through a GEDCOM file.
>
> Also, to avoid mix-up, you need to remove 4.1 first, and then install
> 3.4.8 from a .deb file installed from above site. That's needed, because
> they both use the same start menu.
>
> regards,
>
> Enno
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud
> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
> Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
> Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.
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> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> .
>
>  


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Re: Places Title .. more info

dangar46
An RPM version can be foun d here ...     http://rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2html/search.php?query=GRAMPS



On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 1:19 AM, jan bullock <[hidden email]> wrote:
*I can't install a deb package, running pclinuxos which uses rpm.



jan


*
> jan,
>
>> I've reverted to using gramps linux portable on a persistent install of
>> an iso on a flash drive just to be able to work on some genealogy for
>> someone in Norway, and the newly minted marriage of my son's bride's family.
>>
> If you want, you can also install 3.4.8 from this folder on SF:
>
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/gramps/files/Stable/3.4.8/
>
> On Windows, 3.4.8 can be installed next to 4.1, but on Linux that's not
> easy. If you use that, and really want to go back, there is quite a risk
> of information loss, because 3.4.8 can not read 4.1 trees, nor 4.1
> backups, so the only way back is through a GEDCOM file.
>
> Also, to avoid mix-up, you need to remove 4.1 first, and then install
> 3.4.8 from a .deb file installed from above site. That's needed, because
> they both use the same start menu.
>
> regards,
>
> Enno
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud
> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
> Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
> Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.
> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> .
>
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud
Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.
http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud
Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.
http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y
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