Places in 4.2: Hide "Title" everywhere, search for or show hierarchy string

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Places in 4.2: Hide "Title" everywhere, search for or show hierarchy string

Sebastian Schubert
Hi all,

after playing around with the current git version of 4.2, I found two
issues that are connected with the hiding and the not filling of the
title field of a place.

By default, the place title is now generated automatically from the
hierarchy. Consequently, the title field is hidden in the place editor.
However, the title field is still shown or used in the filter of the
places, the place selection dialogue, etc. Thus, I would suggest to hide
the title field and the connected functionality completely in case the
title is auto-generated.

Instead, I would like to have the possibility to search within the
hierarchy. For example, imagine three villages, each with a church
(without a specific name). I would have the following places ("<"
indicates next level in hierarchy):

Church < Village A
Church < Village B
Church < Village C

In this case, only the auto-generated title is unique. Currently, when I
search for Church in the place selection dialogue of an event, I get
three-times "Church" without the means to see which one is which. If I
search for "Village B", I don't have a way to select the corresponding
Church.

What do you think would be a good way to handle this issue? It's
certainly not that urgent.

Thanks a lot for your work!

Sebastian

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Re: Places in 4.2: Hide "Title" everywhere, search for or show hierarchy string

Sebastian Schubert
Hi Paul,

>> Instead, I would like to have the possibility to search within the
>> hierarchy. For example, imagine three villages, each with a church
>> (without a specific name).
>
> Of course, most churches do have a fairly specific
> name, often being named after a Saint.
>
> Perhaps "Market Place" or "High Street" works
> better as an example.

So far, I only had the issue with Churches. Several of my documents just
say "Parish Church of XYZ". Also, I normally don't remember the
corresponding saint and just want to find the church of village XYZ. Is
St. Paul or St. Sebastian the church of village XYZ?

Sebastian

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Re: Places in 4.2: Hide "Title" everywhere, search for or show hierarchy string

Rich Lakey
In reply to this post by Sebastian Schubert
Another view. I hope not, at least make the title optional.  I received my initial file as a GEDCOM. The only field filled in places prior to 4.1.3 is the Place Name, which becomes the Title in 4.1.3.  As I have further researched people in this file I have modified the Place Name to: country, state, county, city, locality. Therefore by displaying places sorted on the Place Name field I have my own hierarchy. I was also able to remove unreferenced places by using  the unused objects tool.
I am in the process of Updating the rest of my places with this format and adding the other empty fields. There will be no auto generated titles if I am successful. So removing titles would make a difficult migration near impossible. But in anticipation that the title might be removed ( I have detected from post that some feel the title is unnecessary) I am updating the place ID with a code at the same time so I can sort on the ID if not on the title. I hope future versions of GRAMPS allow people to have some flexibility in setting up their data. I find the new places record format only gives the name of the city (example) and not the country etc. where the city is without going through the hierarchy. The Title gives all that information in one place, at one glance.
Just my opinion.
Rich

On 06/26/2015 06:53 AM, Sebastian Schubert wrote:
Hi all,

after playing around with the current git version of 4.2, I found two
issues that are connected with the hiding and the not filling of the
title field of a place.

By default, the place title is now generated automatically from the
hierarchy. Consequently, the title field is hidden in the place editor.
However, the title field is still shown or used in the filter of the
places, the place selection dialogue, etc. Thus, I would suggest to hide
the title field and the connected functionality completely in case the
title is auto-generated.

Instead, I would like to have the possibility to search within the
hierarchy. For example, imagine three villages, each with a church
(without a specific name). I would have the following places ("<"
indicates next level in hierarchy):

Church < Village A
Church < Village B
Church < Village C

In this case, only the auto-generated title is unique. Currently, when I
search for Church in the place selection dialogue of an event, I get
three-times "Church" without the means to see which one is which. If I
search for "Village B", I don't have a way to select the corresponding
Church.

What do you think would be a good way to handle this issue? It's
certainly not that urgent.

Thanks a lot for your work!

Sebastian

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Re: Places in 4.2: Hide "Title" everywhere, search for or show hierarchy string

Sebastian Schubert
Hi Rich,

there is an option in 4.2 to disable auto-generated titles. So you
should be fine. For me, time-dependent titles are important because
counties and countries changed often for many of my places so one fixed
title is not sufficient.

Cheers
Sebastian

On 26/06/15 16:41, Rich wrote:

> Another view. I hope not, at least make the title optional.  I received
> my initial file as a GEDCOM. The only field filled in places prior to
> 4.1.3 is the Place Name, which becomes the Title in 4.1.3.  As I have
> further researched people in this file I have modified the Place Name
> to: country, state, county, city, locality. Therefore by displaying
> places sorted on the Place Name field I have my own hierarchy. I was
> also able to remove unreferenced places by using  the unused objects tool.
> I am in the process of Updating the rest of my places with this format
> and adding the other empty fields. There will be no auto generated
> titles if I am successful. So removing titles would make a difficult
> migration near impossible. But in anticipation that the title might be
> removed ( I have detected from post that some feel the title is
> unnecessary) I am updating the place ID with a code at the same time so
> I can sort on the ID if not on the title. I hope future versions of
> GRAMPS allow people to have some flexibility in setting up their data. I
> find the new places record format only gives the name of the city
> (example) and not the country etc. where the city is without going
> through the hierarchy. The Title gives all that information in one
> place, at one glance.
> Just my opinion.
> Rich
>
> On 06/26/2015 06:53 AM, Sebastian Schubert wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> after playing around with the current git version of 4.2, I found two
>> issues that are connected with the hiding and the not filling of the
>> title field of a place.
>>
>> By default, the place title is now generated automatically from the
>> hierarchy. Consequently, the title field is hidden in the place editor.
>> However, the title field is still shown or used in the filter of the
>> places, the place selection dialogue, etc. Thus, I would suggest to hide
>> the title field and the connected functionality completely in case the
>> title is auto-generated.
>>
>> Instead, I would like to have the possibility to search within the
>> hierarchy. For example, imagine three villages, each with a church
>> (without a specific name). I would have the following places ("<"
>> indicates next level in hierarchy):
>>
>> Church < Village A
>> Church < Village B
>> Church < Village C
>>
>> In this case, only the auto-generated title is unique. Currently, when I
>> search for Church in the place selection dialogue of an event, I get
>> three-times "Church" without the means to see which one is which. If I
>> search for "Village B", I don't have a way to select the corresponding
>> Church.
>>
>> What do you think would be a good way to handle this issue? It's
>> certainly not that urgent.
>>
>> Thanks a lot for your work!
>>
>> Sebastian
>>
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>> network devices and physical & virtual servers, alerts via email & sms
>> for fault. Monitor 25 devices for free with no restriction. Download now
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>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: Places in 4.2: Hide "Title" everywhere, search for or show hierarchy string

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by Sebastian Schubert
On 26/06/15 12:53, Sebastian Schubert wrote:
> By default, the place title is now generated automatically from the
> hierarchy. Consequently, the title field is hidden in the place editor.
> However, the title field is still shown or used in the filter of the
> places, the place selection dialogue, etc. Thus, I would suggest to hide
> the title field and the connected functionality completely in case the
> title is auto-generated.
>

Unless disabled in the preferences, the filter will match against the
automatically generated title.

Nick.


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Re: Places in 4.2: Hide "Title" everywhere, search for or show hierarchy string

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by Sebastian Schubert
On 26/06/15 12:53, Sebastian Schubert wrote:

> Instead, I would like to have the possibility to search within the
> hierarchy. For example, imagine three villages, each with a church
> (without a specific name). I would have the following places ("<"
> indicates next level in hierarchy):
>
> Church < Village A
> Church < Village B
> Church < Village C
>
> In this case, only the auto-generated title is unique. Currently, when I
> search for Church in the place selection dialogue of an event, I get
> three-times "Church" without the means to see which one is which. If I
> search for "Village B", I don't have a way to select the corresponding
> Church.

I don't have any good design for improving the place selection dialog at
the moment.  If you have any good ideas please feel free to discuss them
on the list or create a feature request.

Nick.


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Re: Places in 4.2: Hide "Title" everywhere, search for or show hierarchy string

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by Rich Lakey
On 26/06/15 15:41, Rich wrote:
> I hope future versions of GRAMPS allow people to have some flexibility
> in setting up their data. I find the new places record format only
> gives the name of the city (example) and not the country etc. where
> the city is without going through the hierarchy. The Title gives all
> that information in one place, at one glance.

The new hierarchy is more flexible than the old fixed field approach.  
The automatically generated title will include both the city and country
if they are present.

By disabling the automatic title generation, you can use the title field
in the editor instead.  However, this is not recommended.


Nick.


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Re: Places in 4.2: Hide "Title" everywhere, search for or show hierarchy string

Sebastian Schubert
In reply to this post by Nick Hall
>> By default, the place title is now generated automatically from the
>> hierarchy. Consequently, the title field is hidden in the place editor.
>> However, the title field is still shown or used in the filter of the
>> places, the place selection dialogue, etc. Thus, I would suggest to hide
>> the title field and the connected functionality completely in case the
>> title is auto-generated.
>>
>
> Unless disabled in the preferences, the filter will match against the
> automatically generated title.

Really? When I try it, it just looks for the name when no manual title
of a place was specified before or searches the manually given title.

Thus, as far as I can see, the title search either does exactly the same
as the name search or uses a "feature" that is somewhat obsolete and not
accessible (the manually defined title field).

The only useful application of the title search I can think of would be
to search all possible auto-generated titles.

Or do I miss an option in the configuration?

Cheers and thanks a lot for your great work,
Sebastian

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Re: Places in 4.2: Hide "Title" everywhere, search for or show hierarchy string

Sebastian Schubert
In reply to this post by Nick Hall
>> Instead, I would like to have the possibility to search within the
>> hierarchy. For example, imagine three villages, each with a church
>> (without a specific name). I would have the following places ("<"
>> indicates next level in hierarchy):
>>
>> Church < Village A
>> Church < Village B
>> Church < Village C
>>
>> In this case, only the auto-generated title is unique. Currently, when I
>> search for Church in the place selection dialogue of an event, I get
>> three-times "Church" without the means to see which one is which. If I
>> search for "Village B", I don't have a way to select the corresponding
>> Church.
>
> I don't have any good design for improving the place selection dialog at
> the moment.  If you have any good ideas please feel free to discuss them
> on the list or create a feature request.

For me, it would be nice if the title search would look through all
possible auto-generated titles, i.e. uses the complete hierarchy, and
the title column would give the matching auto-generated title.

Cheers
Sebastian

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Re: Places in 4.2: Hide "Title" everywhere, search for or show hierarchy string

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by Sebastian Schubert
On 27/06/15 13:52, Sebastian Schubert wrote:

>>> By default, the place title is now generated automatically from the
>>> >>hierarchy. Consequently, the title field is hidden in the place editor.
>>> >>However, the title field is still shown or used in the filter of the
>>> >>places, the place selection dialogue, etc. Thus, I would suggest to hide
>>> >>the title field and the connected functionality completely in case the
>>> >>title is auto-generated.
>>> >>
>> >
>> >Unless disabled in the preferences, the filter will match against the
>> >automatically generated title.
> Really? When I try it, it just looks for the name when no manual title
> of a place was specified before or searches the manually given title.
>

The title used for matching is generated using the place displayer. A
modern day title is constructed using today's date.

I kept the title rule in the place filter to match places enclosed by
another place.  It would be better to use the new "Enclosed By" rule.  
I'll investigate this.


Nick.


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Re: Places in 4.2: Hide "Title" everywhere, search for or show hierarchy string

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by Sebastian Schubert
On 27/06/15 13:59, Sebastian Schubert wrote:

>>> Instead, I would like to have the possibility to search within the
>>> >>hierarchy. For example, imagine three villages, each with a church
>>> >>(without a specific name). I would have the following places ("<"
>>> >>indicates next level in hierarchy):
>>> >>
>>> >>Church < Village A
>>> >>Church < Village B
>>> >>Church < Village C
>>> >>
>>> >>In this case, only the auto-generated title is unique. Currently, when I
>>> >>search for Church in the place selection dialogue of an event, I get
>>> >>three-times "Church" without the means to see which one is which. If I
>>> >>search for "Village B", I don't have a way to select the corresponding
>>> >>Church.
>> >
>> >I don't have any good design for improving the place selection dialog at
>> >the moment.  If you have any good ideas please feel free to discuss them
>> >on the list or create a feature request.
> For me, it would be nice if the title search would look through all
> possible auto-generated titles, i.e. uses the complete hierarchy, and
> the title column would give the matching auto-generated title.

Instead of searching all possible place titles, it would be better to
search all names and alternative names.  The question is how best to
display the results.  Sometimes it is useful to display the hierarchy
upwards so the user can see the enclosing places. However, sometimes it
is useful to see places located within the selected place.  I'm not sure
that it is possible to display a complete hierarchy without specifying a
date.

At the moment the search bar only allows us to search the contents of a
column as it is displayed.  We are also restricted to displaying a place
only once in a hierarchy.

Careful thought is needed before implementing a place selector that
behaves differently from the other selectors.  The first step is to come
up with a good user interface design.


Nick.


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