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Places

Connie Mack
How would I go about accessing my places in a spreadsheet format so I can do bulk changes. I need to add enclosures. I'm embarrassed to say I have been using gramps for a couple of years and am just now realizing I should have learned what enclosures are and been adding them. All my place names are in the format, town/city/township, county, state and if not in the US, then country is at the end of the name, no enclosures added at all.  I became aware of my mistake when searching for why nothing worked when attempting to use the Place Completion tool and Place Cleanup gramplet. Neither worked at all. When I attempted to find a place within the cleanup gramplet it returned the error, my geonames account wasn't enabled, even though it was multiple times. But that may be another problem. 

When using the completion tool, searching state, MI, looking in the file MI_Features_20190901.txt,  it returns 3 entries for the other states that also start with Mi, Minnesota, Mississippi and Missouri.  I installed nzjrs-osm-gps-map-1.1.0-26-g9df1353 just before this. After this failure I carried out a test by adding my home with enclosures and that one was found. So apparently enclosures are a prerequisite to using this tool. I can't bear the idea of editing each place. There are just too many.  I am on 64 bit Windows 10.

Thanks for any help.
Connie



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Re: Places

Peter Merchant
On 15/10/2019 00:40, Connie Mack wrote:
How would I go about accessing my places in a spreadsheet format so I can do bulk changes. I need to add enclosures. I'm embarrassed to say I have been using gramps for a couple of years and am just now realizing I should have learned what enclosures are and been adding them. All my place names are in the format, town/city/township, county, state and if not in the US, then country is at the end of the name, no enclosures added at all.  I became aware of my mistake when searching for why nothing worked when attempting to use the Place Completion tool and Place Cleanup gramplet. Neither worked at all. When I attempted to find a place within the cleanup gramplet it returned the error, my geonames account wasn't enabled, even though it was multiple times. But that may be another problem. 

When using the completion tool, searching state, MI, looking in the file MI_Features_20190901.txt,  it returns 3 entries for the other states that also start with Mi, Minnesota, Mississippi and Missouri.  I installed nzjrs-osm-gps-map-1.1.0-26-g9df1353 just before this. After this failure I carried out a test by adding my home with enclosures and that one was found. So apparently enclosures are a prerequisite to using this tool. I can't bear the idea of editing each place. There are just too many.  I am on 64 bit Windows 10.

Thanks for any help.
Connie


Hi Connie, It took me awhile to realise what you meant by 'enclosures' as I initially thought that was a piece of land. I have to leave an answer to your question to the experts.

Meanwhile, once you have that sorted, Here's something else to consider. Note that I haven't used it myself as I can't get my head around how London, Manchester and other cities have grown and absorbed surrounding settlements over the years. http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Use-of-dates-in-the-place-hierarchy-td4679806.html


Peter M.



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Re: Places

Doug-11
On 15/10/2019 09:31, Peter Merchant wrote:
On 15/10/2019 00:40, Connie Mack wrote:
How would I go about accessing my places in a spreadsheet format so I can do bulk changes. I need to add enclosures. I'm embarrassed to say I have been using gramps for a couple of years and am just now realizing I should have learned what enclosures are and been adding them. All my place names are in the format, town/city/township, county, state and if not in the US, then country is at the end of the name, no enclosures added at all.  I became aware of my mistake when searching for why nothing worked when attempting to use the Place Completion tool and Place Cleanup gramplet. Neither worked at all. When I attempted to find a place within the cleanup gramplet it returned the error, my geonames account wasn't enabled, even though it was multiple times. But that may be another problem. 

When using the completion tool, searching state, MI, looking in the file MI_Features_20190901.txt,  it returns 3 entries for the other states that also start with Mi, Minnesota, Mississippi and Missouri.  I installed nzjrs-osm-gps-map-1.1.0-26-g9df1353 just before this. After this failure I carried out a test by adding my home with enclosures and that one was found. So apparently enclosures are a prerequisite to using this tool. I can't bear the idea of editing each place. There are just too many.  I am on 64 bit Windows 10.

Thanks for any help.
Connie


Hi Connie, It took me awhile to realise what you meant by 'enclosures' as I initially thought that was a piece of land. I have to leave an answer to your question to the experts.

Meanwhile, once you have that sorted, Here's something else to consider. Note that I haven't used it myself as I can't get my head around how London, Manchester and other cities have grown and absorbed surrounding settlements over the years. http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Use-of-dates-in-the-place-hierarchy-td4679806.html


Peter M.



Hi Connie,

Here's a suggestion, but others may have better ones - when I was converting my Places from the old gramps 3 format to the current place hierarchy I discarded all the higher level (county, state, etc. type) place details and kept only the lowest level town/village/hamlet. Separately I set up a tree which contained only the place hierarchy for all places in my database - that way I could do the enclosing with the proper dates for changes of name, boundary and so on without confusing references to any events, people, etc.

Finally I merged the place tree with my family tree which needed only the lowest place level to be stitched in. It's a long time since I did this and the details escape me at the moment.

HTH

Doug



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Re: Places

Connie Mack
Thank you Peter and Doug.  Peter, yes, I recently read that and I have simply been using the name at the time of the event and sometimes adding a Person note about the history of the location. I made a big mistake here it seems. I hope there is a less labor intensive way to fix this. Maybe if I could just do a bulk addition enclosed by US or maybe also sort by state and add enclosed by state... 

Doug, I was about to experiment in a similar fashion. I exported places for all 3600 people as csv. There is an enclosed by column but it uses the ID number, not name so....I think I will attempt to sort by type then I can add country enclosure in my original tree to get an ID number. I'll bring that into a new tree and see if that is enough. If not, I'll add states too. I read that one of the tools can use the date of the event to give it the right location but don't know if that will work since I already used the name at the time of the event, not what it became later.


On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 7:14 AM Doug <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 15/10/2019 09:31, Peter Merchant wrote:
On 15/10/2019 00:40, Connie Mack wrote:
How would I go about accessing my places in a spreadsheet format so I can do bulk changes. I need to add enclosures. I'm embarrassed to say I have been using gramps for a couple of years and am just now realizing I should have learned what enclosures are and been adding them. All my place names are in the format, town/city/township, county, state and if not in the US, then country is at the end of the name, no enclosures added at all.  I became aware of my mistake when searching for why nothing worked when attempting to use the Place Completion tool and Place Cleanup gramplet. Neither worked at all. When I attempted to find a place within the cleanup gramplet it returned the error, my geonames account wasn't enabled, even though it was multiple times. But that may be another problem. 

When using the completion tool, searching state, MI, looking in the file MI_Features_20190901.txt,  it returns 3 entries for the other states that also start with Mi, Minnesota, Mississippi and Missouri.  I installed nzjrs-osm-gps-map-1.1.0-26-g9df1353 just before this. After this failure I carried out a test by adding my home with enclosures and that one was found. So apparently enclosures are a prerequisite to using this tool. I can't bear the idea of editing each place. There are just too many.  I am on 64 bit Windows 10.

Thanks for any help.
Connie


Hi Connie, It took me awhile to realise what you meant by 'enclosures' as I initially thought that was a piece of land. I have to leave an answer to your question to the experts.

Meanwhile, once you have that sorted, Here's something else to consider. Note that I haven't used it myself as I can't get my head around how London, Manchester and other cities have grown and absorbed surrounding settlements over the years. http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Use-of-dates-in-the-place-hierarchy-td4679806.html


Peter M.



Hi Connie,

Here's a suggestion, but others may have better ones - when I was converting my Places from the old gramps 3 format to the current place hierarchy I discarded all the higher level (county, state, etc. type) place details and kept only the lowest level town/village/hamlet. Separately I set up a tree which contained only the place hierarchy for all places in my database - that way I could do the enclosing with the proper dates for changes of name, boundary and so on without confusing references to any events, people, etc.

Finally I merged the place tree with my family tree which needed only the lowest place level to be stitched in. It's a long time since I did this and the details escape me at the moment.

HTH

Doug

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Re: Places

Dave Scheipers
Hi Connie

I followed the link Peter provided and was surprised to see it was
from a thread I participated in.

I have a large database and I am still making the changes to place
records to take advantage of the dynamic hierarchies and alternate
names.

I forgo using the Place Name cleanup and GetGOV apps.  To fully take
advantage of them you need to use them on all place records letting
the apps set the gramps ID numbers.  I do use the apps to help me
figure out what's what but ultimately manually enter the information.

For the United States, you may find this link helpful. I do not
remember who or when someone else recommended this site.

https://publications.newberry.org/ahcbp/index.html

As I work on individuals and families, I will also take the time to
clean the place records for them. I try to clean the place records by
counties but will often clean an entire state at once. I do still have
many place records tagged "Needs Cleaning".  My philosophy is what am
I doing, genealogy or am I putting together an ultimate gazetteer of
places.  Once I get all the place records cleaned and set to use the
dynamic hierarchy, new place functionality will be add to the code and
I'll start all over again editing place records to take advantage of
the new functions.

Dave

On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 7:58 AM Connie Mack
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Thank you Peter and Doug.  Peter, yes, I recently read that and I have simply been using the name at the time of the event and sometimes adding a Person note about the history of the location. I made a big mistake here it seems. I hope there is a less labor intensive way to fix this. Maybe if I could just do a bulk addition enclosed by US or maybe also sort by state and add enclosed by state...
>
> Doug, I was about to experiment in a similar fashion. I exported places for all 3600 people as csv. There is an enclosed by column but it uses the ID number, not name so....I think I will attempt to sort by type then I can add country enclosure in my original tree to get an ID number. I'll bring that into a new tree and see if that is enough. If not, I'll add states too. I read that one of the tools can use the date of the event to give it the right location but don't know if that will work since I already used the name at the time of the event, not what it became later.
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 7:14 AM Doug <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 15/10/2019 09:31, Peter Merchant wrote:
>>
>> On 15/10/2019 00:40, Connie Mack wrote:
>>
>> How would I go about accessing my places in a spreadsheet format so I can do bulk changes. I need to add enclosures. I'm embarrassed to say I have been using gramps for a couple of years and am just now realizing I should have learned what enclosures are and been adding them. All my place names are in the format, town/city/township, county, state and if not in the US, then country is at the end of the name, no enclosures added at all.  I became aware of my mistake when searching for why nothing worked when attempting to use the Place Completion tool and Place Cleanup gramplet. Neither worked at all. When I attempted to find a place within the cleanup gramplet it returned the error, my geonames account wasn't enabled, even though it was multiple times. But that may be another problem.
>>
>> When using the completion tool, searching state, MI, looking in the file MI_Features_20190901.txt,  it returns 3 entries for the other states that also start with Mi, Minnesota, Mississippi and Missouri.  I installed nzjrs-osm-gps-map-1.1.0-26-g9df1353 just before this. After this failure I carried out a test by adding my home with enclosures and that one was found. So apparently enclosures are a prerequisite to using this tool. I can't bear the idea of editing each place. There are just too many.  I am on 64 bit Windows 10.
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>> Connie
>>
>>
>> Hi Connie, It took me awhile to realise what you meant by 'enclosures' as I initially thought that was a piece of land. I have to leave an answer to your question to the experts.
>>
>> Meanwhile, once you have that sorted, Here's something else to consider. Note that I haven't used it myself as I can't get my head around how London, Manchester and other cities have grown and absorbed surrounding settlements over the years. http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Use-of-dates-in-the-place-hierarchy-td4679806.html
>>
>>
>> Peter M.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Connie,
>>
>> Here's a suggestion, but others may have better ones - when I was converting my Places from the old gramps 3 format to the current place hierarchy I discarded all the higher level (county, state, etc. type) place details and kept only the lowest level town/village/hamlet. Separately I set up a tree which contained only the place hierarchy for all places in my database - that way I could do the enclosing with the proper dates for changes of name, boundary and so on without confusing references to any events, people, etc.
>>
>> Finally I merged the place tree with my family tree which needed only the lowest place level to be stitched in. It's a long time since I did this and the details escape me at the moment.
>>
>> HTH
>>
>> Doug
>>
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
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>
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Re: Places

StoltHD
In reply to this post by Connie Mack
If you are willing to sit down and take 2 hours to learn Openrefine openrefine.org,

The job will be easy and you can at the same time add Types and Dates for the new structure...

Here is the short version:
After installing Openrefine... (its actually just to download a zip, unzip it and run the bat-fil)

1. Export your places to csv by using file->export->csv.
2. Open the csv in Openrefine, use comma separated and utf-8 as Charset (this is important, else you can get a lot of strange characters)
3. Create the project when you see that the table is correct.
4. Select the little arrow in the Name Column (For now you just forget about the Title, but it can be of some visual help later so dont delete that column
5. in the menu for the Arrow, chose Edit Cells, and then Split multivalue cells
6. Use comma as separator and click Ok, You will now get new rows under the ones you already have, the hierarchy is starting to grow...
7. Arrow on the Name column again, -> Edit Cells -> Common Transforms -> Trim leading and trailing whitespace
8. Still on Name, Arrow, Facet, Text Facet
9. On left hand side, you will get a box (Facet) where you can select places (include)
10. Now its time to set the Place ID and Types for the new rows.
11. Select same places in the Facet at the left, Chose only one or atleast just a few at the time, Clcik "include" for each name thats actually the same place (ie. New York City and NY City, but not NY State)

it takes some time to get the selections correct, but you will work it out, if you dont have different names for the states and cities with same names, you need to sort out that in the table BEFOR this step (i.e. edit the city name to contain City , just do something thats easy for you, you can change it again later)

12. figure out a good "code" for the place column (it can be changed in Gramps later if you like) and add the code to the first place in the selection.
(If you have set Types for your places in Gramps, you can add a Text Facet on the Type Column, and then only include the "blank")

13. Go through your lists and add the Values to the places, This you do in the table,  To simplify, set the value for the first row and use the "fill down" under the arrow for the Place column (this is why it can be okay to only chose one location at the time, atleast for where you have many names). Also do the same for Type...

If you start at your Country level, and go down to smaller units, you can alse set the "Enclosed by" value now, (i.e. if you have set a value of USA-001 for The United States of America, and you are on the State level, you can now set all the US States as Enclosed by "USA-001" and fill down if you have multiple line...
Again, this is why its easier to just chose one name at the time, atleast where it is multiple rows for each name (you can see how many rows for each name in the Facet, its a little number in () to the right of the name.

When you have gone through all your places this way, save your work by export it (Upper Right) as a comma separated csv (I recommend to export it as an Excel or ODF also)

14. When you have set all your Place values and Enclosed by values and Types, its time to delete the multiple entries, chose a Text Facet for the Place Column, and start the process one by one location that has multiple values,
follow this instruction, by setting a star on all by one row of each location that has multiple rows: https://github.com/OpenRefine/OpenRefine/wiki/Row-Editing
(Again, this is why its easiest to chose one location (value) in the Facet at the time)

At this point, you can delete fille the Title columns cells with blanks, Arrow at the Place column, Edit Cells -> Blank Down

When you have cleaned up all your rows, Export the project as CSV and Excel /ODF.


If you shut down your browser while working you will/can lose your work because its only saved in cache, so its important that you export whenever you have done some major edits...


You can do the same in Excel or Libre/OO, but its way more work if you are not really good in using spreadsheets (i.e. how to splitt cells by values).



Hope this workaround is of any help

If anyone wants to clean it up and make a Wiki Page of it, be my guest

Jaran

tir. 15. okt. 2019 kl. 13:58 skrev Connie Mack <[hidden email]>:
Thank you Peter and Doug.  Peter, yes, I recently read that and I have simply been using the name at the time of the event and sometimes adding a Person note about the history of the location. I made a big mistake here it seems. I hope there is a less labor intensive way to fix this. Maybe if I could just do a bulk addition enclosed by US or maybe also sort by state and add enclosed by state... 

Doug, I was about to experiment in a similar fashion. I exported places for all 3600 people as csv. There is an enclosed by column but it uses the ID number, not name so....I think I will attempt to sort by type then I can add country enclosure in my original tree to get an ID number. I'll bring that into a new tree and see if that is enough. If not, I'll add states too. I read that one of the tools can use the date of the event to give it the right location but don't know if that will work since I already used the name at the time of the event, not what it became later.


On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 7:14 AM Doug <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 15/10/2019 09:31, Peter Merchant wrote:
On 15/10/2019 00:40, Connie Mack wrote:
How would I go about accessing my places in a spreadsheet format so I can do bulk changes. I need to add enclosures. I'm embarrassed to say I have been using gramps for a couple of years and am just now realizing I should have learned what enclosures are and been adding them. All my place names are in the format, town/city/township, county, state and if not in the US, then country is at the end of the name, no enclosures added at all.  I became aware of my mistake when searching for why nothing worked when attempting to use the Place Completion tool and Place Cleanup gramplet. Neither worked at all. When I attempted to find a place within the cleanup gramplet it returned the error, my geonames account wasn't enabled, even though it was multiple times. But that may be another problem. 

When using the completion tool, searching state, MI, looking in the file MI_Features_20190901.txt,  it returns 3 entries for the other states that also start with Mi, Minnesota, Mississippi and Missouri.  I installed nzjrs-osm-gps-map-1.1.0-26-g9df1353 just before this. After this failure I carried out a test by adding my home with enclosures and that one was found. So apparently enclosures are a prerequisite to using this tool. I can't bear the idea of editing each place. There are just too many.  I am on 64 bit Windows 10.

Thanks for any help.
Connie


Hi Connie, It took me awhile to realise what you meant by 'enclosures' as I initially thought that was a piece of land. I have to leave an answer to your question to the experts.

Meanwhile, once you have that sorted, Here's something else to consider. Note that I haven't used it myself as I can't get my head around how London, Manchester and other cities have grown and absorbed surrounding settlements over the years. http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Use-of-dates-in-the-place-hierarchy-td4679806.html


Peter M.



Hi Connie,

Here's a suggestion, but others may have better ones - when I was converting my Places from the old gramps 3 format to the current place hierarchy I discarded all the higher level (county, state, etc. type) place details and kept only the lowest level town/village/hamlet. Separately I set up a tree which contained only the place hierarchy for all places in my database - that way I could do the enclosing with the proper dates for changes of name, boundary and so on without confusing references to any events, people, etc.

Finally I merged the place tree with my family tree which needed only the lowest place level to be stitched in. It's a long time since I did this and the details escape me at the moment.

HTH

Doug

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Re: Places

StoltHD
just one more thing... it is important that you dont change the place values that you already have on the places exported from Gramps, because when you import the csv now, Gramps should merge those places directly into the new hierachy based on the place field...

I recommend to create a copy of your database and thest out the import before doing it on your "Live" database.
Also change the way the Titles are generated in Gramps (I do not remember how just now, buts in the settings and you want them to be autogenerated from the name fields and hierarchy.

Jaran


tir. 15. okt. 2019 kl. 15:42 skrev StoltHD <[hidden email]>:
If you are willing to sit down and take 2 hours to learn Openrefine openrefine.org,

The job will be easy and you can at the same time add Types and Dates for the new structure...

Here is the short version:
After installing Openrefine... (its actually just to download a zip, unzip it and run the bat-fil)

1. Export your places to csv by using file->export->csv.
2. Open the csv in Openrefine, use comma separated and utf-8 as Charset (this is important, else you can get a lot of strange characters)
3. Create the project when you see that the table is correct.
4. Select the little arrow in the Name Column (For now you just forget about the Title, but it can be of some visual help later so dont delete that column
5. in the menu for the Arrow, chose Edit Cells, and then Split multivalue cells
6. Use comma as separator and click Ok, You will now get new rows under the ones you already have, the hierarchy is starting to grow...
7. Arrow on the Name column again, -> Edit Cells -> Common Transforms -> Trim leading and trailing whitespace
8. Still on Name, Arrow, Facet, Text Facet
9. On left hand side, you will get a box (Facet) where you can select places (include)
10. Now its time to set the Place ID and Types for the new rows.
11. Select same places in the Facet at the left, Chose only one or atleast just a few at the time, Clcik "include" for each name thats actually the same place (ie. New York City and NY City, but not NY State)

it takes some time to get the selections correct, but you will work it out, if you dont have different names for the states and cities with same names, you need to sort out that in the table BEFOR this step (i.e. edit the city name to contain City , just do something thats easy for you, you can change it again later)

12. figure out a good "code" for the place column (it can be changed in Gramps later if you like) and add the code to the first place in the selection.
(If you have set Types for your places in Gramps, you can add a Text Facet on the Type Column, and then only include the "blank")

13. Go through your lists and add the Values to the places, This you do in the table,  To simplify, set the value for the first row and use the "fill down" under the arrow for the Place column (this is why it can be okay to only chose one location at the time, atleast for where you have many names). Also do the same for Type...

If you start at your Country level, and go down to smaller units, you can alse set the "Enclosed by" value now, (i.e. if you have set a value of USA-001 for The United States of America, and you are on the State level, you can now set all the US States as Enclosed by "USA-001" and fill down if you have multiple line...
Again, this is why its easier to just chose one name at the time, atleast where it is multiple rows for each name (you can see how many rows for each name in the Facet, its a little number in () to the right of the name.

When you have gone through all your places this way, save your work by export it (Upper Right) as a comma separated csv (I recommend to export it as an Excel or ODF also)

14. When you have set all your Place values and Enclosed by values and Types, its time to delete the multiple entries, chose a Text Facet for the Place Column, and start the process one by one location that has multiple values,
follow this instruction, by setting a star on all by one row of each location that has multiple rows: https://github.com/OpenRefine/OpenRefine/wiki/Row-Editing
(Again, this is why its easiest to chose one location (value) in the Facet at the time)

At this point, you can delete fille the Title columns cells with blanks, Arrow at the Place column, Edit Cells -> Blank Down

When you have cleaned up all your rows, Export the project as CSV and Excel /ODF.


If you shut down your browser while working you will/can lose your work because its only saved in cache, so its important that you export whenever you have done some major edits...


You can do the same in Excel or Libre/OO, but its way more work if you are not really good in using spreadsheets (i.e. how to splitt cells by values).



Hope this workaround is of any help

If anyone wants to clean it up and make a Wiki Page of it, be my guest

Jaran

tir. 15. okt. 2019 kl. 13:58 skrev Connie Mack <[hidden email]>:
Thank you Peter and Doug.  Peter, yes, I recently read that and I have simply been using the name at the time of the event and sometimes adding a Person note about the history of the location. I made a big mistake here it seems. I hope there is a less labor intensive way to fix this. Maybe if I could just do a bulk addition enclosed by US or maybe also sort by state and add enclosed by state... 

Doug, I was about to experiment in a similar fashion. I exported places for all 3600 people as csv. There is an enclosed by column but it uses the ID number, not name so....I think I will attempt to sort by type then I can add country enclosure in my original tree to get an ID number. I'll bring that into a new tree and see if that is enough. If not, I'll add states too. I read that one of the tools can use the date of the event to give it the right location but don't know if that will work since I already used the name at the time of the event, not what it became later.


On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 7:14 AM Doug <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 15/10/2019 09:31, Peter Merchant wrote:
On 15/10/2019 00:40, Connie Mack wrote:
How would I go about accessing my places in a spreadsheet format so I can do bulk changes. I need to add enclosures. I'm embarrassed to say I have been using gramps for a couple of years and am just now realizing I should have learned what enclosures are and been adding them. All my place names are in the format, town/city/township, county, state and if not in the US, then country is at the end of the name, no enclosures added at all.  I became aware of my mistake when searching for why nothing worked when attempting to use the Place Completion tool and Place Cleanup gramplet. Neither worked at all. When I attempted to find a place within the cleanup gramplet it returned the error, my geonames account wasn't enabled, even though it was multiple times. But that may be another problem. 

When using the completion tool, searching state, MI, looking in the file MI_Features_20190901.txt,  it returns 3 entries for the other states that also start with Mi, Minnesota, Mississippi and Missouri.  I installed nzjrs-osm-gps-map-1.1.0-26-g9df1353 just before this. After this failure I carried out a test by adding my home with enclosures and that one was found. So apparently enclosures are a prerequisite to using this tool. I can't bear the idea of editing each place. There are just too many.  I am on 64 bit Windows 10.

Thanks for any help.
Connie


Hi Connie, It took me awhile to realise what you meant by 'enclosures' as I initially thought that was a piece of land. I have to leave an answer to your question to the experts.

Meanwhile, once you have that sorted, Here's something else to consider. Note that I haven't used it myself as I can't get my head around how London, Manchester and other cities have grown and absorbed surrounding settlements over the years. http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Use-of-dates-in-the-place-hierarchy-td4679806.html


Peter M.



Hi Connie,

Here's a suggestion, but others may have better ones - when I was converting my Places from the old gramps 3 format to the current place hierarchy I discarded all the higher level (county, state, etc. type) place details and kept only the lowest level town/village/hamlet. Separately I set up a tree which contained only the place hierarchy for all places in my database - that way I could do the enclosing with the proper dates for changes of name, boundary and so on without confusing references to any events, people, etc.

Finally I merged the place tree with my family tree which needed only the lowest place level to be stitched in. It's a long time since I did this and the details escape me at the moment.

HTH

Doug

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Re: Places

prculley
In reply to this post by Connie Mack
The Place completion tool is rather dated, I would not use it.

I am concerned that you were unable to use the Place Cleanup Gramplet.  Did you get an account at http://www.geonames.org/login ?
Once you got the account, did you use the little icon at upper right of the Place Cleanup Gramplet (looks like a box with a wrench and gear on my Windows system) to set the account username (not email address) into the tool?  Did you remember to keep your computer connected to the internet?

If this is not working (it did for me in a quick test) we should get it looked at.

When the tool is working, it is not too difficult to clean up your data, although you have to do it one by one.  There always seems to be too much judgement needed to have a tool that does this automatically.

It is possible to edit in CSV, you would export your whole database to CSV, use a spreadsheet to delete all the persons and families (to avoid messing with them) and add the enclosures using the IDs.  Make sure if you add an ID yourself, for a new enclosing place, that it doesn't conflict with a current ID, add them with a much higher starting number for example.

I would definitely back up my data first, and do a small test of one or two places, then import the updated CSV again to see if it worked as expected.

Paul C.

On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 6:42 PM Connie Mack <[hidden email]> wrote:
How would I go about accessing my places in a spreadsheet format so I can do bulk changes. I need to add enclosures. I'm embarrassed to say I have been using gramps for a couple of years and am just now realizing I should have learned what enclosures are and been adding them. All my place names are in the format, town/city/township, county, state and if not in the US, then country is at the end of the name, no enclosures added at all.  I became aware of my mistake when searching for why nothing worked when attempting to use the Place Completion tool and Place Cleanup gramplet. Neither worked at all. When I attempted to find a place within the cleanup gramplet it returned the error, my geonames account wasn't enabled, even though it was multiple times. But that may be another problem. 

When using the completion tool, searching state, MI, looking in the file MI_Features_20190901.txt,  it returns 3 entries for the other states that also start with Mi, Minnesota, Mississippi and Missouri.  I installed nzjrs-osm-gps-map-1.1.0-26-g9df1353 just before this. After this failure I carried out a test by adding my home with enclosures and that one was found. So apparently enclosures are a prerequisite to using this tool. I can't bear the idea of editing each place. There are just too many.  I am on 64 bit Windows 10.

Thanks for any help.
Connie

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Re: Places

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Dave Scheipers
Connie, 

You may want to defer the harmonization work on your places tree.

Reworking the Places model is being discussed for the 5.2 release of Gramps. So a lot of effort now might actually be counterproductive.


One of the things that I find aggravating about the current Places implementation is the way mapping ignores Places without GPS coordinates.  It would be nice if there were any 'approximation' Marker that grouped those events under hierarchically nearest enclosing Place that HAS coordinates.

Without some kind of fallback mapping, it makes all defining Events with the most granular Place hierarchy a risky choice. 

Say that I've found a Family Bible which says various people from 3 generations were born, died or buried on the family farm somewhere in a hierarchically defined & GPS-located Township. So I'm likely to create a family burial ground & put it under a farm under that Township. But the Birth & Deaths events won't be mapped until GPS coordinates are entered for the farm. And those Interments won't be mapped until I find GPS coordinates for the family plot. 

It would be more useful if it had a Placeholder group marker for all those events in the Township. There's currently no way to mark GPS coordinates as approximations either. So a set of 'placeholder' coordinates (needing more research) could be confused for a verified location.

-Brian

On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 8:00, Dave Scheipers
Hi Connie

I followed the link Peter provided and was surprised to see it was
from a thread I participated in.

I have a large database and I am still making the changes to place
records to take advantage of the dynamic hierarchies and alternate
names.

I forgo using the Place Name cleanup and GetGOV apps.  To fully take
advantage of them you need to use them on all place records letting
the apps set the gramps ID numbers.  I do use the apps to help me
figure out what's what but ultimately manually enter the information.

For the United States, you may find this link helpful. I do not
remember who or when someone else recommended this site.

https://publications.newberry.org/ahcbp/index.html

As I work on individuals and families, I will also take the time to
clean the place records for them. I try to clean the place records by
counties but will often clean an entire state at once. I do still have
many place records tagged "Needs Cleaning".  My philosophy is what am
I doing, genealogy or am I putting together an ultimate gazetteer of
places.  Once I get all the place records cleaned and set to use the
dynamic hierarchy, new place functionality will be add to the code and
I'll start all over again editing place records to take advantage of
the new functions.

Dave

On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 7:58 AM Connie Mack
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Thank you Peter and Doug.  Peter, yes, I recently read that and I have simply been using the name at the time of the event and sometimes adding a Person note about the history of the location. I made a big mistake here it seems. I hope there is a less labor intensive way to fix this. Maybe if I could just do a bulk addition enclosed by US or maybe also sort by state and add enclosed by state...
>
> Doug, I was about to experiment in a similar fashion. I exported places for all 3600 people as csv. There is an enclosed by column but it uses the ID number, not name so....I think I will attempt to sort by type then I can add country enclosure in my original tree to get an ID number. I'll bring that into a new tree and see if that is enough. If not, I'll add states too. I read that one of the tools can use the date of the event to give it the right location but don't know if that will work since I already used the name at the time of the event, not what it became later.
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 7:14 AM Doug <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 15/10/2019 09:31, Peter Merchant wrote:
>>
>> On 15/10/2019 00:40, Connie Mack wrote:
>>
>> How would I go about accessing my places in a spreadsheet format so I can do bulk changes. I need to add enclosures. I'm embarrassed to say I have been using gramps for a couple of years and am just now realizing I should have learned what enclosures are and been adding them. All my place names are in the format, town/city/township, county, state and if not in the US, then country is at the end of the name, no enclosures added at all.  I became aware of my mistake when searching for why nothing worked when attempting to use the Place Completion tool and Place Cleanup gramplet. Neither worked at all. When I attempted to find a place within the cleanup gramplet it returned the error, my geonames account wasn't enabled, even though it was multiple times. But that may be another problem.
>>
>> When using the completion tool, searching state, MI, looking in the file MI_Features_20190901.txt,  it returns 3 entries for the other states that also start with Mi, Minnesota, Mississippi and Missouri.  I installed nzjrs-osm-gps-map-1.1.0-26-g9df1353 just before this. After this failure I carried out a test by adding my home with enclosures and that one was found. So apparently enclosures are a prerequisite to using this tool. I can't bear the idea of editing each place. There are just too many.  I am on 64 bit Windows 10.
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>> Connie
>>
>>
>> Hi Connie, It took me awhile to realise what you meant by 'enclosures' as I initially thought that was a piece of land. I have to leave an answer to your question to the experts.
>>
>> Meanwhile, once you have that sorted, Here's something else to consider. Note that I haven't used it myself as I can't get my head around how London, Manchester and other cities have grown and absorbed surrounding settlements over the years. http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Use-of-dates-in-the-place-hierarchy-td4679806.html
>>
>>
>> Peter M.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Connie,
>>
>> Here's a suggestion, but others may have better ones - when I was converting my Places from the old gramps 3 format to the current place hierarchy I discarded all the higher level (county, state, etc. type) place details and kept only the lowest level town/village/hamlet. Separately I set up a tree which contained only the place hierarchy for all places in my database - that way I could do the enclosing with the proper dates for changes of name, boundary and so on without confusing references to any events, people, etc.
>>
>> Finally I merged the place tree with my family tree which needed only the lowest place level to be stitched in. It's a long time since I did this and the details escape me at the moment.
>>
>> HTH
>>
>> Doug
>>
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>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
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Re: Places

Connie Mack
Jaran, Thank you for the detailed instructions. I will spend at least some time with this potential solution. Brian, Thank you very much for the heads up that it might be better to save most of the work until after the next release.

On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 9:51 AM [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Connie, 

You may want to defer the harmonization work on your places tree.

Reworking the Places model is being discussed for the 5.2 release of Gramps. So a lot of effort now might actually be counterproductive.


One of the things that I find aggravating about the current Places implementation is the way mapping ignores Places without GPS coordinates.  It would be nice if there were any 'approximation' Marker that grouped those events under hierarchically nearest enclosing Place that HAS coordinates.

Without some kind of fallback mapping, it makes all defining Events with the most granular Place hierarchy a risky choice. 

Say that I've found a Family Bible which says various people from 3 generations were born, died or buried on the family farm somewhere in a hierarchically defined & GPS-located Township. So I'm likely to create a family burial ground & put it under a farm under that Township. But the Birth & Deaths events won't be mapped until GPS coordinates are entered for the farm. And those Interments won't be mapped until I find GPS coordinates for the family plot. 

It would be more useful if it had a Placeholder group marker for all those events in the Township. There's currently no way to mark GPS coordinates as approximations either. So a set of 'placeholder' coordinates (needing more research) could be confused for a verified location.

-Brian

On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 8:00, Dave Scheipers
Hi Connie

I followed the link Peter provided and was surprised to see it was
from a thread I participated in.

I have a large database and I am still making the changes to place
records to take advantage of the dynamic hierarchies and alternate
names.

I forgo using the Place Name cleanup and GetGOV apps.  To fully take
advantage of them you need to use them on all place records letting
the apps set the gramps ID numbers.  I do use the apps to help me
figure out what's what but ultimately manually enter the information.

For the United States, you may find this link helpful. I do not
remember who or when someone else recommended this site.

https://publications.newberry.org/ahcbp/index.html

As I work on individuals and families, I will also take the time to
clean the place records for them. I try to clean the place records by
counties but will often clean an entire state at once. I do still have
many place records tagged "Needs Cleaning".  My philosophy is what am
I doing, genealogy or am I putting together an ultimate gazetteer of
places.  Once I get all the place records cleaned and set to use the
dynamic hierarchy, new place functionality will be add to the code and
I'll start all over again editing place records to take advantage of
the new functions.

Dave

On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 7:58 AM Connie Mack
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Thank you Peter and Doug.  Peter, yes, I recently read that and I have simply been using the name at the time of the event and sometimes adding a Person note about the history of the location. I made a big mistake here it seems. I hope there is a less labor intensive way to fix this. Maybe if I could just do a bulk addition enclosed by US or maybe also sort by state and add enclosed by state...
>
> Doug, I was about to experiment in a similar fashion. I exported places for all 3600 people as csv. There is an enclosed by column but it uses the ID number, not name so....I think I will attempt to sort by type then I can add country enclosure in my original tree to get an ID number. I'll bring that into a new tree and see if that is enough. If not, I'll add states too. I read that one of the tools can use the date of the event to give it the right location but don't know if that will work since I already used the name at the time of the event, not what it became later.
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 7:14 AM Doug <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 15/10/2019 09:31, Peter Merchant wrote:
>>
>> On 15/10/2019 00:40, Connie Mack wrote:
>>
>> How would I go about accessing my places in a spreadsheet format so I can do bulk changes. I need to add enclosures. I'm embarrassed to say I have been using gramps for a couple of years and am just now realizing I should have learned what enclosures are and been adding them. All my place names are in the format, town/city/township, county, state and if not in the US, then country is at the end of the name, no enclosures added at all.  I became aware of my mistake when searching for why nothing worked when attempting to use the Place Completion tool and Place Cleanup gramplet. Neither worked at all. When I attempted to find a place within the cleanup gramplet it returned the error, my geonames account wasn't enabled, even though it was multiple times. But that may be another problem.
>>
>> When using the completion tool, searching state, MI, looking in the file MI_Features_20190901.txt,  it returns 3 entries for the other states that also start with Mi, Minnesota, Mississippi and Missouri.  I installed nzjrs-osm-gps-map-1.1.0-26-g9df1353 just before this. After this failure I carried out a test by adding my home with enclosures and that one was found. So apparently enclosures are a prerequisite to using this tool. I can't bear the idea of editing each place. There are just too many.  I am on 64 bit Windows 10.
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>> Connie
>>
>>
>> Hi Connie, It took me awhile to realise what you meant by 'enclosures' as I initially thought that was a piece of land. I have to leave an answer to your question to the experts.
>>
>> Meanwhile, once you have that sorted, Here's something else to consider. Note that I haven't used it myself as I can't get my head around how London, Manchester and other cities have grown and absorbed surrounding settlements over the years. http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Use-of-dates-in-the-place-hierarchy-td4679806.html
>>
>>
>> Peter M.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Connie,
>>
>> Here's a suggestion, but others may have better ones - when I was converting my Places from the old gramps 3 format to the current place hierarchy I discarded all the higher level (county, state, etc. type) place details and kept only the lowest level town/village/hamlet. Separately I set up a tree which contained only the place hierarchy for all places in my database - that way I could do the enclosing with the proper dates for changes of name, boundary and so on without confusing references to any events, people, etc.
>>
>> Finally I merged the place tree with my family tree which needed only the lowest place level to be stitched in. It's a long time since I did this and the details escape me at the moment.
>>
>> HTH
>>
>> Doug
>>
>> --
>> Gramps-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>> https://gramps-project.org

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Re: Places

StoltHD
In reply to this post by prculley
@Paul,

We only need to export the Places, in the csv it works well just to select "inlcude Places", even in a database with just places you can export to csv and get all your places exported...
....................

@Connie,

I recommend to use a custom Place ID, and if you like to change the ID in Gramps after you have imported and you see everything is in order, Just DO NOT change the Place ID's on the originally exported places, because if the fix I got a while ago has been implemented in the gramplet, Gramps now respect the Place ID when importing so the places in the database should get the changes done with the CSV...

Jaran



tir. 15. okt. 2019 kl. 15:51 skrev Paul Culley <[hidden email]>:
The Place completion tool is rather dated, I would not use it.

I am concerned that you were unable to use the Place Cleanup Gramplet.  Did you get an account at http://www.geonames.org/login ?
Once you got the account, did you use the little icon at upper right of the Place Cleanup Gramplet (looks like a box with a wrench and gear on my Windows system) to set the account username (not email address) into the tool?  Did you remember to keep your computer connected to the internet?

If this is not working (it did for me in a quick test) we should get it looked at.

When the tool is working, it is not too difficult to clean up your data, although you have to do it one by one.  There always seems to be too much judgement needed to have a tool that does this automatically.

It is possible to edit in CSV, you would export your whole database to CSV, use a spreadsheet to delete all the persons and families (to avoid messing with them) and add the enclosures using the IDs.  Make sure if you add an ID yourself, for a new enclosing place, that it doesn't conflict with a current ID, add them with a much higher starting number for example.

I would definitely back up my data first, and do a small test of one or two places, then import the updated CSV again to see if it worked as expected.

Paul C.

On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 6:42 PM Connie Mack <[hidden email]> wrote:
How would I go about accessing my places in a spreadsheet format so I can do bulk changes. I need to add enclosures. I'm embarrassed to say I have been using gramps for a couple of years and am just now realizing I should have learned what enclosures are and been adding them. All my place names are in the format, town/city/township, county, state and if not in the US, then country is at the end of the name, no enclosures added at all.  I became aware of my mistake when searching for why nothing worked when attempting to use the Place Completion tool and Place Cleanup gramplet. Neither worked at all. When I attempted to find a place within the cleanup gramplet it returned the error, my geonames account wasn't enabled, even though it was multiple times. But that may be another problem. 

When using the completion tool, searching state, MI, looking in the file MI_Features_20190901.txt,  it returns 3 entries for the other states that also start with Mi, Minnesota, Mississippi and Missouri.  I installed nzjrs-osm-gps-map-1.1.0-26-g9df1353 just before this. After this failure I carried out a test by adding my home with enclosures and that one was found. So apparently enclosures are a prerequisite to using this tool. I can't bear the idea of editing each place. There are just too many.  I am on 64 bit Windows 10.

Thanks for any help.
Connie

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Re: Places

StoltHD
One more thing with Openrefine, you can actually add columns and information from other data sources, i.e. geonames...

By using the reconcile function you can select additional data sources and add information, i.e. the GPS coordinates...
here are some Video Tutorials...
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=openrefine+reconciliation

Openrefine is a extremely powerful tool...


@Brian,
isn't the 5.2 scheduled for next summer or something like that?


Jaran

tir. 15. okt. 2019 kl. 16:08 skrev StoltHD <[hidden email]>:
@Paul,

We only need to export the Places, in the csv it works well just to select "inlcude Places", even in a database with just places you can export to csv and get all your places exported...
....................

@Connie,

I recommend to use a custom Place ID, and if you like to change the ID in Gramps after you have imported and you see everything is in order, Just DO NOT change the Place ID's on the originally exported places, because if the fix I got a while ago has been implemented in the gramplet, Gramps now respect the Place ID when importing so the places in the database should get the changes done with the CSV...

Jaran



tir. 15. okt. 2019 kl. 15:51 skrev Paul Culley <[hidden email]>:
The Place completion tool is rather dated, I would not use it.

I am concerned that you were unable to use the Place Cleanup Gramplet.  Did you get an account at http://www.geonames.org/login ?
Once you got the account, did you use the little icon at upper right of the Place Cleanup Gramplet (looks like a box with a wrench and gear on my Windows system) to set the account username (not email address) into the tool?  Did you remember to keep your computer connected to the internet?

If this is not working (it did for me in a quick test) we should get it looked at.

When the tool is working, it is not too difficult to clean up your data, although you have to do it one by one.  There always seems to be too much judgement needed to have a tool that does this automatically.

It is possible to edit in CSV, you would export your whole database to CSV, use a spreadsheet to delete all the persons and families (to avoid messing with them) and add the enclosures using the IDs.  Make sure if you add an ID yourself, for a new enclosing place, that it doesn't conflict with a current ID, add them with a much higher starting number for example.

I would definitely back up my data first, and do a small test of one or two places, then import the updated CSV again to see if it worked as expected.

Paul C.

On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 6:42 PM Connie Mack <[hidden email]> wrote:
How would I go about accessing my places in a spreadsheet format so I can do bulk changes. I need to add enclosures. I'm embarrassed to say I have been using gramps for a couple of years and am just now realizing I should have learned what enclosures are and been adding them. All my place names are in the format, town/city/township, county, state and if not in the US, then country is at the end of the name, no enclosures added at all.  I became aware of my mistake when searching for why nothing worked when attempting to use the Place Completion tool and Place Cleanup gramplet. Neither worked at all. When I attempted to find a place within the cleanup gramplet it returned the error, my geonames account wasn't enabled, even though it was multiple times. But that may be another problem. 

When using the completion tool, searching state, MI, looking in the file MI_Features_20190901.txt,  it returns 3 entries for the other states that also start with Mi, Minnesota, Mississippi and Missouri.  I installed nzjrs-osm-gps-map-1.1.0-26-g9df1353 just before this. After this failure I carried out a test by adding my home with enclosures and that one was found. So apparently enclosures are a prerequisite to using this tool. I can't bear the idea of editing each place. There are just too many.  I am on 64 bit Windows 10.

Thanks for any help.
Connie

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Re: Places

StoltHD
@Connie,

Actually I just figured out that Openrefine autosave the projects, so you can reopen it later...

Thanks, learned something new today :-) :-) :-)

Jaran

tir. 15. okt. 2019 kl. 16:18 skrev StoltHD <[hidden email]>:
One more thing with Openrefine, you can actually add columns and information from other data sources, i.e. geonames...

By using the reconcile function you can select additional data sources and add information, i.e. the GPS coordinates...
here are some Video Tutorials...
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=openrefine+reconciliation

Openrefine is a extremely powerful tool...


@Brian,
isn't the 5.2 scheduled for next summer or something like that?


Jaran

tir. 15. okt. 2019 kl. 16:08 skrev StoltHD <[hidden email]>:
@Paul,

We only need to export the Places, in the csv it works well just to select "inlcude Places", even in a database with just places you can export to csv and get all your places exported...
....................

@Connie,

I recommend to use a custom Place ID, and if you like to change the ID in Gramps after you have imported and you see everything is in order, Just DO NOT change the Place ID's on the originally exported places, because if the fix I got a while ago has been implemented in the gramplet, Gramps now respect the Place ID when importing so the places in the database should get the changes done with the CSV...

Jaran



tir. 15. okt. 2019 kl. 15:51 skrev Paul Culley <[hidden email]>:
The Place completion tool is rather dated, I would not use it.

I am concerned that you were unable to use the Place Cleanup Gramplet.  Did you get an account at http://www.geonames.org/login ?
Once you got the account, did you use the little icon at upper right of the Place Cleanup Gramplet (looks like a box with a wrench and gear on my Windows system) to set the account username (not email address) into the tool?  Did you remember to keep your computer connected to the internet?

If this is not working (it did for me in a quick test) we should get it looked at.

When the tool is working, it is not too difficult to clean up your data, although you have to do it one by one.  There always seems to be too much judgement needed to have a tool that does this automatically.

It is possible to edit in CSV, you would export your whole database to CSV, use a spreadsheet to delete all the persons and families (to avoid messing with them) and add the enclosures using the IDs.  Make sure if you add an ID yourself, for a new enclosing place, that it doesn't conflict with a current ID, add them with a much higher starting number for example.

I would definitely back up my data first, and do a small test of one or two places, then import the updated CSV again to see if it worked as expected.

Paul C.

On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 6:42 PM Connie Mack <[hidden email]> wrote:
How would I go about accessing my places in a spreadsheet format so I can do bulk changes. I need to add enclosures. I'm embarrassed to say I have been using gramps for a couple of years and am just now realizing I should have learned what enclosures are and been adding them. All my place names are in the format, town/city/township, county, state and if not in the US, then country is at the end of the name, no enclosures added at all.  I became aware of my mistake when searching for why nothing worked when attempting to use the Place Completion tool and Place Cleanup gramplet. Neither worked at all. When I attempted to find a place within the cleanup gramplet it returned the error, my geonames account wasn't enabled, even though it was multiple times. But that may be another problem. 

When using the completion tool, searching state, MI, looking in the file MI_Features_20190901.txt,  it returns 3 entries for the other states that also start with Mi, Minnesota, Mississippi and Missouri.  I installed nzjrs-osm-gps-map-1.1.0-26-g9df1353 just before this. After this failure I carried out a test by adding my home with enclosures and that one was found. So apparently enclosures are a prerequisite to using this tool. I can't bear the idea of editing each place. There are just too many.  I am on 64 bit Windows 10.

Thanks for any help.
Connie

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Re: Places

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by StoltHD
On 15/10/2019 15:18, StoltHD wrote:
> isn't the 5.2 scheduled for next summer or something like that?
>
Yes.  It will probably be sometime mid July.

Nick.




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Re: Places

Connie Mack
In reply to this post by StoltHD
  Thank you, Jaran. The video will help the learning curve. I think it would be a valuable tool to have at my disposal and well worth my time. 

On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 10:33 AM StoltHD <[hidden email]> wrote:
@Connie,

Actually I just figured out that Openrefine autosave the projects, so you can reopen it later...

Thanks, learned something new today :-) :-) :-)

Jaran

tir. 15. okt. 2019 kl. 16:18 skrev StoltHD <[hidden email]>:
One more thing with Openrefine, you can actually add columns and information from other data sources, i.e. geonames...

By using the reconcile function you can select additional data sources and add information, i.e. the GPS coordinates...
here are some Video Tutorials...
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=openrefine+reconciliation

Openrefine is a extremely powerful tool...


@Brian,
isn't the 5.2 scheduled for next summer or something like that?


Jaran

tir. 15. okt. 2019 kl. 16:08 skrev StoltHD <[hidden email]>:
@Paul,

We only need to export the Places, in the csv it works well just to select "inlcude Places", even in a database with just places you can export to csv and get all your places exported...
....................

@Connie,

I recommend to use a custom Place ID, and if you like to change the ID in Gramps after you have imported and you see everything is in order, Just DO NOT change the Place ID's on the originally exported places, because if the fix I got a while ago has been implemented in the gramplet, Gramps now respect the Place ID when importing so the places in the database should get the changes done with the CSV...

Jaran



tir. 15. okt. 2019 kl. 15:51 skrev Paul Culley <[hidden email]>:
The Place completion tool is rather dated, I would not use it.

I am concerned that you were unable to use the Place Cleanup Gramplet.  Did you get an account at http://www.geonames.org/login ?
Once you got the account, did you use the little icon at upper right of the Place Cleanup Gramplet (looks like a box with a wrench and gear on my Windows system) to set the account username (not email address) into the tool?  Did you remember to keep your computer connected to the internet?

If this is not working (it did for me in a quick test) we should get it looked at.

When the tool is working, it is not too difficult to clean up your data, although you have to do it one by one.  There always seems to be too much judgement needed to have a tool that does this automatically.

It is possible to edit in CSV, you would export your whole database to CSV, use a spreadsheet to delete all the persons and families (to avoid messing with them) and add the enclosures using the IDs.  Make sure if you add an ID yourself, for a new enclosing place, that it doesn't conflict with a current ID, add them with a much higher starting number for example.

I would definitely back up my data first, and do a small test of one or two places, then import the updated CSV again to see if it worked as expected.

Paul C.

On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 6:42 PM Connie Mack <[hidden email]> wrote:
How would I go about accessing my places in a spreadsheet format so I can do bulk changes. I need to add enclosures. I'm embarrassed to say I have been using gramps for a couple of years and am just now realizing I should have learned what enclosures are and been adding them. All my place names are in the format, town/city/township, county, state and if not in the US, then country is at the end of the name, no enclosures added at all.  I became aware of my mistake when searching for why nothing worked when attempting to use the Place Completion tool and Place Cleanup gramplet. Neither worked at all. When I attempted to find a place within the cleanup gramplet it returned the error, my geonames account wasn't enabled, even though it was multiple times. But that may be another problem. 

When using the completion tool, searching state, MI, looking in the file MI_Features_20190901.txt,  it returns 3 entries for the other states that also start with Mi, Minnesota, Mississippi and Missouri.  I installed nzjrs-osm-gps-map-1.1.0-26-g9df1353 just before this. After this failure I carried out a test by adding my home with enclosures and that one was found. So apparently enclosures are a prerequisite to using this tool. I can't bear the idea of editing each place. There are just too many.  I am on 64 bit Windows 10.

Thanks for any help.
Connie

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Re: Places

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Nick Hall
Next summer may or may not be significant. (And to be a program for public consumption, a programmer has to be an optimist. It is safer to assume some slippage in projections.)  If Connie's plan for sharing/publication or analysis of the data is a year off, then it might be reasonable to wait for new, neat tools.  If there would be good return on the Place cleanup effort in the meantime, Connie can decide to go ahead with these other great methods. 

Just a matter of being the type who checks a map before getting in the car or who waits until they're in the general area. Both approaches will get you there

On Tuesday, October 15, 2019, 9:36:21 AM CDT, Nick Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:


On 15/10/2019 15:18, StoltHD wrote:
> isn't the 5.2 scheduled for next summer or something like that?
>
Yes.  It will probably be sometime mid July.

Nick.



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Re: Places

Dave Scheipers
In reply to this post by prculley
If I remember right, for GeoNames you create the account login, you
get a confirming email which you confirm and GeoNames says you are
logged in.  But then there is another "Enable" button link that needs
to be set to be able to have the app link to geonames.

On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 9:51 AM Paul Culley <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> The Place completion tool is rather dated, I would not use it.
>
> I am concerned that you were unable to use the Place Cleanup Gramplet.  Did you get an account at http://www.geonames.org/login ?
> Once you got the account, did you use the little icon at upper right of the Place Cleanup Gramplet (looks like a box with a wrench and gear on my Windows system) to set the account username (not email address) into the tool?  Did you remember to keep your computer connected to the internet?
>
> If this is not working (it did for me in a quick test) we should get it looked at.
>
> When the tool is working, it is not too difficult to clean up your data, although you have to do it one by one.  There always seems to be too much judgement needed to have a tool that does this automatically.
>
> It is possible to edit in CSV, you would export your whole database to CSV, use a spreadsheet to delete all the persons and families (to avoid messing with them) and add the enclosures using the IDs.  Make sure if you add an ID yourself, for a new enclosing place, that it doesn't conflict with a current ID, add them with a much higher starting number for example.
>
> I would definitely back up my data first, and do a small test of one or two places, then import the updated CSV again to see if it worked as expected.
>
> Paul C.
>
> On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 6:42 PM Connie Mack <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> How would I go about accessing my places in a spreadsheet format so I can do bulk changes. I need to add enclosures. I'm embarrassed to say I have been using gramps for a couple of years and am just now realizing I should have learned what enclosures are and been adding them. All my place names are in the format, town/city/township, county, state and if not in the US, then country is at the end of the name, no enclosures added at all.  I became aware of my mistake when searching for why nothing worked when attempting to use the Place Completion tool and Place Cleanup gramplet. Neither worked at all. When I attempted to find a place within the cleanup gramplet it returned the error, my geonames account wasn't enabled, even though it was multiple times. But that may be another problem.
>>
>> When using the completion tool, searching state, MI, looking in the file MI_Features_20190901.txt,  it returns 3 entries for the other states that also start with Mi, Minnesota, Mississippi and Missouri.  I installed nzjrs-osm-gps-map-1.1.0-26-g9df1353 just before this. After this failure I carried out a test by adding my home with enclosures and that one was found. So apparently enclosures are a prerequisite to using this tool. I can't bear the idea of editing each place. There are just too many.  I am on 64 bit Windows 10.
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>> Connie
>>
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Re: Places

Connie Mack
Dave, I have enabled more than once but when I go there again I see "the account is not yet enabled to use the free web services. Click here to enable" I just did it again and this time I think it worked. That makes the 3rd or 4th try. Now I'm wondering if I left that page before using the gramplet. Maybe it won't work unless still connected to the successfully enabled page? So, now I have the option of using this gramplet to change them one by one or try openrefine. Thanks everyone.



On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 11:51 AM Dave Scheipers <[hidden email]> wrote:
If I remember right, for GeoNames you create the account login, you
get a confirming email which you confirm and GeoNames says you are
logged in.  But then there is another "Enable" button link that needs
to be set to be able to have the app link to geonames.

On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 9:51 AM Paul Culley <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The Place completion tool is rather dated, I would not use it.
>
> I am concerned that you were unable to use the Place Cleanup Gramplet.  Did you get an account at http://www.geonames.org/login ?
> Once you got the account, did you use the little icon at upper right of the Place Cleanup Gramplet (looks like a box with a wrench and gear on my Windows system) to set the account username (not email address) into the tool?  Did you remember to keep your computer connected to the internet?
>
> If this is not working (it did for me in a quick test) we should get it looked at.
>
> When the tool is working, it is not too difficult to clean up your data, although you have to do it one by one.  There always seems to be too much judgement needed to have a tool that does this automatically.
>
> It is possible to edit in CSV, you would export your whole database to CSV, use a spreadsheet to delete all the persons and families (to avoid messing with them) and add the enclosures using the IDs.  Make sure if you add an ID yourself, for a new enclosing place, that it doesn't conflict with a current ID, add them with a much higher starting number for example.
>
> I would definitely back up my data first, and do a small test of one or two places, then import the updated CSV again to see if it worked as expected.
>
> Paul C.
>
> On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 6:42 PM Connie Mack <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> How would I go about accessing my places in a spreadsheet format so I can do bulk changes. I need to add enclosures. I'm embarrassed to say I have been using gramps for a couple of years and am just now realizing I should have learned what enclosures are and been adding them. All my place names are in the format, town/city/township, county, state and if not in the US, then country is at the end of the name, no enclosures added at all.  I became aware of my mistake when searching for why nothing worked when attempting to use the Place Completion tool and Place Cleanup gramplet. Neither worked at all. When I attempted to find a place within the cleanup gramplet it returned the error, my geonames account wasn't enabled, even though it was multiple times. But that may be another problem.
>>
>> When using the completion tool, searching state, MI, looking in the file MI_Features_20190901.txt,  it returns 3 entries for the other states that also start with Mi, Minnesota, Mississippi and Missouri.  I installed nzjrs-osm-gps-map-1.1.0-26-g9df1353 just before this. After this failure I carried out a test by adding my home with enclosures and that one was found. So apparently enclosures are a prerequisite to using this tool. I can't bear the idea of editing each place. There are just too many.  I am on 64 bit Windows 10.
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>> Connie
>>
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Re: Places

StoltHD
One thing that is important with the CSV import is that it reads one line at the time, so if a PLACE does not exist, it crash...

Its important that you have the enclosed by PLACE before a places that use that PLACE ID in the Enclosed_by field

i.e. if you have USA as PLACE 001, and New York State as 001-07 and then NY City as 001-07-0001 and enclosed by 001-07, You must have New Yark State higher up in the CSV file (i.e. row 2 if NY City is row 3)
...

Golden rule is that Microsoft sort from left to right so always use leading Zeros in both numbers and Strings, and shortest string with same characters goes on top... (i.e. P0001-002, will be higher up in the table when sorted than P0001-002001)
But when number it sorts it as we count...

Thats also why you should always use ISO standard dates on Windows, i.e. 2019-11-15, not 11-15-2019 or any other country specific format... (Just a tip)

Jaran

tir. 15. okt. 2019 kl. 18:28 skrev Connie Mack <[hidden email]>:
Dave, I have enabled more than once but when I go there again I see "the account is not yet enabled to use the free web services. Click here to enable" I just did it again and this time I think it worked. That makes the 3rd or 4th try. Now I'm wondering if I left that page before using the gramplet. Maybe it won't work unless still connected to the successfully enabled page? So, now I have the option of using this gramplet to change them one by one or try openrefine. Thanks everyone.



On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 11:51 AM Dave Scheipers <[hidden email]> wrote:
If I remember right, for GeoNames you create the account login, you
get a confirming email which you confirm and GeoNames says you are
logged in.  But then there is another "Enable" button link that needs
to be set to be able to have the app link to geonames.

On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 9:51 AM Paul Culley <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The Place completion tool is rather dated, I would not use it.
>
> I am concerned that you were unable to use the Place Cleanup Gramplet.  Did you get an account at http://www.geonames.org/login ?
> Once you got the account, did you use the little icon at upper right of the Place Cleanup Gramplet (looks like a box with a wrench and gear on my Windows system) to set the account username (not email address) into the tool?  Did you remember to keep your computer connected to the internet?
>
> If this is not working (it did for me in a quick test) we should get it looked at.
>
> When the tool is working, it is not too difficult to clean up your data, although you have to do it one by one.  There always seems to be too much judgement needed to have a tool that does this automatically.
>
> It is possible to edit in CSV, you would export your whole database to CSV, use a spreadsheet to delete all the persons and families (to avoid messing with them) and add the enclosures using the IDs.  Make sure if you add an ID yourself, for a new enclosing place, that it doesn't conflict with a current ID, add them with a much higher starting number for example.
>
> I would definitely back up my data first, and do a small test of one or two places, then import the updated CSV again to see if it worked as expected.
>
> Paul C.
>
> On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 6:42 PM Connie Mack <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> How would I go about accessing my places in a spreadsheet format so I can do bulk changes. I need to add enclosures. I'm embarrassed to say I have been using gramps for a couple of years and am just now realizing I should have learned what enclosures are and been adding them. All my place names are in the format, town/city/township, county, state and if not in the US, then country is at the end of the name, no enclosures added at all.  I became aware of my mistake when searching for why nothing worked when attempting to use the Place Completion tool and Place Cleanup gramplet. Neither worked at all. When I attempted to find a place within the cleanup gramplet it returned the error, my geonames account wasn't enabled, even though it was multiple times. But that may be another problem.
>>
>> When using the completion tool, searching state, MI, looking in the file MI_Features_20190901.txt,  it returns 3 entries for the other states that also start with Mi, Minnesota, Mississippi and Missouri.  I installed nzjrs-osm-gps-map-1.1.0-26-g9df1353 just before this. After this failure I carried out a test by adding my home with enclosures and that one was found. So apparently enclosures are a prerequisite to using this tool. I can't bear the idea of editing each place. There are just too many.  I am on 64 bit Windows 10.
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>> Connie
>>
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Re: Places

Connie Mack
I'm learning a lot from you, Jaran. I now fully understand why my quick attempt to test the cvs export-edit crashed on import. This will answer Sam's question too.  I had sorted the rows by type, then name to get each state ID then used find to add it to all the counties within that state. I just did enough to run the test and it crashed because they weren't sorted they way you said. This is the error message received. 
1306941: ERROR: dbloader.py: line 564: Failed to import database.
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Program Files\GrampsAIO64-5.1.0\gramps\gui\dbloader.py", line 553, in do_import
    dbstate=self.dbstate))
  File "C:\Program Files\GrampsAIO64-5.1.0\gramps\plugins\importer\importcsv.py", line 122, in importData
    parser.parse(filehandle)
  File "C:\Program Files\GrampsAIO64-5.1.0\gramps\plugins\importer\importcsv.py", line 365, in parse
    self._parse_csv_data(data, step)
  File "C:\Program Files\GrampsAIO64-5.1.0\gramps\plugins\importer\importcsv.py", line 414, in _parse_csv_data
    self._parse_place(line_number, row, col)
  File "C:\Program Files\GrampsAIO64-5.1.0\gramps\plugins\importer\importcsv.py", line 881, in _parse_place
    (place.gramps_id, place_enclosed_by_id))
Exception: cannot enclose P3829 in [P3830] as it doesn't exist  



On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 7:13 PM Sam Manzi <[hidden email]> wrote:
How does it crash, what error message?  Maybe the code should be updated to create a PLACE if it does not exist? Can you file a bug/feature issue for this please?

On Wed, 16 Oct 2019 at 09:36, StoltHD <[hidden email]> wrote:
One thing that is important with the CSV import is that it reads one line at the time, so if a PLACE does not exist, it crash...
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