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Re: Places

StoltHD
Sam,

It is totally natural that it crash, since the record it try to enclose by have not been loaded from the csv, if the sort order in the csv is wrong...
To fix it, you need to load and search the whole csv as an array, and with a csv in the 200MB size range, that will just kill most computer because of memory consume...

And to create the place with the enclosed by value, can be risky, you can end up with a lot of broken relations if there actually are errors or records missing in the csv.

What could have been done was a message at the startscreen of the import for csv, that warn about this for csv files thats been altered or created outside gramp...

At the moment im starting to merge all my place files, so if i find some problem, i will either make a ticket or bring it to the dev mailing list...

But i can tell one thin, on a computer with an i7 4830 cpu, 32GB ram and sata ssds for both system and data store, a 32k rows places only on hierachy without dates and lon lat date, get imported in less than a minute... Sqlite backend on sata ssd...

Next run will hold nearly 100k place rows...
And the next after that, near 200k rows

I do wish I could have imported notes and some more information aboyt the places via csv, since i also use then for graph network vizualisation of my research... But thats for another day...


Jaran



Fra: Connie Mack <[hidden email]>
Sendt: onsdag 16. oktober 2019, 01.45
Til: Sam Manzi
Kopi: gramps-users
Emne: Re: [Gramps-users] Places

I'm learning a lot from you, Jaran. I now fully understand why my quick attempt to test the cvs export-edit crashed on import. This will answer Sam's question too.  I had sorted the rows by type, then name to get each state ID then used find to add it to all the counties within that state. I just did enough to run the test and it crashed because they weren't sorted they way you said. This is the error message received. 
1306941: ERROR: dbloader.py: line 564: Failed to import database.
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Program Files\GrampsAIO64-5.1.0\gramps\gui\dbloader.py", line 553, in do_import
    dbstate=self.dbstate))
  File "C:\Program Files\GrampsAIO64-5.1.0\gramps\plugins\importer\importcsv.py", line 122, in importData
    parser.parse(filehandle)
  File "C:\Program Files\GrampsAIO64-5.1.0\gramps\plugins\importer\importcsv.py", line 365, in parse
    self._parse_csv_data(data, step)
  File "C:\Program Files\GrampsAIO64-5.1.0\gramps\plugins\importer\importcsv.py", line 414, in _parse_csv_data
    self._parse_place(line_number, row, col)
  File "C:\Program Files\GrampsAIO64-5.1.0\gramps\plugins\importer\importcsv.py", line 881, in _parse_place
    (place.gramps_id, place_enclosed_by_id))
Exception: cannot enclose P3829 in [P3830] as it doesn't exist  



On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 7:13 PM Sam Manzi <[hidden email]> wrote:
How does it crash, what error message?  Maybe the code should be updated to create a PLACE if it does not exist? Can you file a bug/feature issue for this please?

On Wed, 16 Oct 2019 at 09:36, StoltHD <[hidden email]> wrote:
One thing that is important with the CSV import is that it reads one line at the time, so if a PLACE does not exist, it crash...
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Re: Places

Tony Gordon
In reply to this post by Connie Mack
Another option would be to use the Generateplace tool available here:

https://gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=8323

It converts comma-separated place titles to the new hierarchy. It doesn't assign the Types; you have to do that manually later, but not having Types assigned doesn't seem to stop the place titles displaying on screen on in text reports. I have found it a very useful tool for converting imported GEDCOM place names into the hierarchy format.

Tony

.On Mon, 2019-10-14 at 19:40 -0400, Connie Mack wrote:
How would I go about accessing my places in a spreadsheet format so I can do bulk changes. I need to add enclosures. I'm embarrassed to say I have been using gramps for a couple of years and am just now realizing I should have learned what enclosures are and been adding them. All my place names are in the format, town/city/township, county, state and if not in the US, then country is at the end of the name, no enclosures added at all.  I became aware of my mistake when searching for why nothing worked when attempting to use the Place Completion tool and Place Cleanup gramplet. Neither worked at all. When I attempted to find a place within the cleanup gramplet it returned the error, my geonames account wasn't enabled, even though it was multiple times. But that may be another problem. 

When using the completion tool, searching state, MI, looking in the file MI_Features_20190901.txt,  it returns 3 entries for the other states that also start with Mi, Minnesota, Mississippi and Missouri.  I installed nzjrs-osm-gps-map-1.1.0-26-g9df1353 just before this. After this failure I carried out a test by adding my home with enclosures and that one was found. So apparently enclosures are a prerequisite to using this tool. I can't bear the idea of editing each place. There are just too many.  I am on 64 bit Windows 10.

Thanks for any help.
Connie



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Re: Places

Connie Mack
Thank you Tony. I had trouble finding it. Is it called Extract Place rather than Generateplace? That is found in Tools->Family Tree Processing->Extract Place Data from a Place Title... if it is installed. BUT it brought up none of my 3 part names (city/twp, county, state) accept for Canada and instead, gave me all of my county/state entries, not recognizing county, insisting on putting them all under city. Yes, it actually changes the type from what I had, County, to City. So, good thing I backed up first. This tool would be good if no counties were added but many records are only on the county level and I have been very diligent about adding county to all my locations. 




On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 2:53 AM Tony Gordon <[hidden email]> wrote:
Another option would be to use the Generateplace tool available here:

https://gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=8323

It converts comma-separated place titles to the new hierarchy. It doesn't assign the Types; you have to do that manually later, but not having Types assigned doesn't seem to stop the place titles displaying on screen on in text reports. I have found it a very useful tool for converting imported GEDCOM place names into the hierarchy format.

Tony

.On Mon, 2019-10-14 at 19:40 -0400, Connie Mack wrote:
How would I go about accessing my places in a spreadsheet format so I can do bulk changes. I need to add enclosures. I'm embarrassed to say I have been using gramps for a couple of years and am just now realizing I should have learned what enclosures are and been adding them. All my place names are in the format, town/city/township, county, state and if not in the US, then country is at the end of the name, no enclosures added at all.  I became aware of my mistake when searching for why nothing worked when attempting to use the Place Completion tool and Place Cleanup gramplet. Neither worked at all. When I attempted to find a place within the cleanup gramplet it returned the error, my geonames account wasn't enabled, even though it was multiple times. But that may be another problem. 

When using the completion tool, searching state, MI, looking in the file MI_Features_20190901.txt,  it returns 3 entries for the other states that also start with Mi, Minnesota, Mississippi and Missouri.  I installed nzjrs-osm-gps-map-1.1.0-26-g9df1353 just before this. After this failure I carried out a test by adding my home with enclosures and that one was found. So apparently enclosures are a prerequisite to using this tool. I can't bear the idea of editing each place. There are just too many.  I am on 64 bit Windows 10.

Thanks for any help.
Connie



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Re: Places

Seymour J Metz
Another issue is that the city-county relationship is different in different jurisdictions, e.g., in Virginia cities exist only outside of counties, NYC
has multiple counties.

Please don't use reply-to for messages to the list - it causes replies to go off list.


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________________________________________
From: Connie Mack <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2019 9:42 AM
To: Tony Gordon
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Places

Thank you Tony. I had trouble finding it. Is it called Extract Place rather than Generateplace? That is found in Tools->Family Tree Processing->Extract Place Data from a Place Title... if it is installed. BUT it brought up none of my 3 part names (city/twp, county, state) accept for Canada and instead, gave me all of my county/state entries, not recognizing county, insisting on putting them all under city. Yes, it actually changes the type from what I had, County, to City. So, good thing I backed up first. This tool would be good if no counties were added but many records are only on the county level and I have been very diligent about adding county to all my locations.




On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 2:53 AM Tony Gordon <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
Another option would be to use the Generateplace tool available here:

https://gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=8323<https://secure-web.cisco.com/1Zhcvn7x1oWAEel5-T8NqD4XtlAH08zYtfo7plCoPBmYeP9VBfULy4HUFhV-EAjyretcUEV8rKjcgUYwREnBFzGOTFIQw37sYA2z5lMH7puHAa3GoPPXiiNNHk7VZ-yanq5ulC7LW2Wb9NBB0hpsaAI99R2QecVZJgurFMy32lVf5lKxDtkL3XAGuqBWL0MTlt0UEVSnKBgfTzNn4-Zn98AANRlBtr37hRfVJeNBJpNSmpyOisPMzPP7zk2i0H00MiLfOMeHF83ta5mFN_QJJrlnSBYmKdDLLGfBJfnGYFv0ogwHQYjCU0RtZcRuQLBIPtUBv9wQ86eRr7Iu6A3TcatOOcGuFidaZbWYQpNmD2elq_2D2bme8xfXBnmOwpLgI/https%3A%2F%2Fgramps-project.org%2Fbugs%2Fview.php%3Fid%3D8323>

It converts comma-separated place titles to the new hierarchy. It doesn't assign the Types; you have to do that manually later, but not having Types assigned doesn't seem to stop the place titles displaying on screen on in text reports. I have found it a very useful tool for converting imported GEDCOM place names into the hierarchy format.

Tony

.On Mon, 2019-10-14 at 19:40 -0400, Connie Mack wrote:
How would I go about accessing my places in a spreadsheet format so I can do bulk changes. I need to add enclosures. I'm embarrassed to say I have been using gramps for a couple of years and am just now realizing I should have learned what enclosures are and been adding them. All my place names are in the format, town/city/township, county, state and if not in the US, then country is at the end of the name, no enclosures added at all.  I became aware of my mistake when searching for why nothing worked when attempting to use the Place Completion tool and Place Cleanup gramplet. Neither worked at all. When I attempted to find a place within the cleanup gramplet it returned the error, my geonames account wasn't enabled, even though it was multiple times. But that may be another problem.

When using the completion tool, searching state, MI, looking in the file MI_Features_20190901.txt,  it returns 3 entries for the other states that also start with Mi, Minnesota, Mississippi and Missouri.  I installed nzjrs-osm-gps-map-1.1.0-26-g9df1353 just before this. After this failure I carried out a test by adding my home with enclosures and that one was found. So apparently enclosures are a prerequisite to using this tool. I can't bear the idea of editing each place. There are just too many.  I am on 64 bit Windows 10.

Thanks for any help.
Connie



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Re: Places

Tony Gordon
In reply to this post by Connie Mack
Connie

I haven't used the Extract Place .. tool. It may do something similar but it appears to be limited to three or four elements. The tool I referred to can be found under Tools->Family Tree Processing->Generate hierarchy from Place Titles... when the two files available on the website have been manually put into the users 'plugin' folder and the required adjustment made for the Gramps version (see the website for instructions). It is not available through the 'official' plug-in/addon repository. It is not limited by the number of elements

What it does is take a single line, comma-separated title and break it into its components e.g. "Los Angeles, California, USA" would be broken into "Los Angeles" which would be enclosed by "California" which would be enclosed by "USA". It may assign some default Types (i.e. City, County, State, Country) based on the number of elements but I think a lot of these will need to be edited after to suit. As I noted in my original post, incorrect Types doesn't appear to stop the correct place titles displaying on screen on in text reports.

Tony

On Wed, 2019-10-16 at 09:42 -0400, Connie Mack wrote:
Thank you Tony. I had trouble finding it. Is it called Extract Place rather than Generateplace? That is found in Tools->Family Tree Processing->Extract Place Data from a Place Title... if it is installed. BUT it brought up none of my 3 part names (city/twp, county, state) accept for Canada and instead, gave me all of my county/state entries, not recognizing county, insisting on putting them all under city. Yes, it actually changes the type from what I had, County, to City. So, good thing I backed up first. This tool would be good if no counties were added but many records are only on the county level and I have been very diligent about adding county to all my locations. 




On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 2:53 AM Tony Gordon <[hidden email]> wrote:
Another option would be to use the Generateplace tool available here:

https://gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=8323

It converts comma-separated place titles to the new hierarchy. It doesn't assign the Types; you have to do that manually later, but not having Types assigned doesn't seem to stop the place titles displaying on screen on in text reports. I have found it a very useful tool for converting imported GEDCOM place names into the hierarchy format.

Tony

.On Mon, 2019-10-14 at 19:40 -0400, Connie Mack wrote:
How would I go about accessing my places in a spreadsheet format so I can do bulk changes. I need to add enclosures. I'm embarrassed to say I have been using gramps for a couple of years and am just now realizing I should have learned what enclosures are and been adding them. All my place names are in the format, town/city/township, county, state and if not in the US, then country is at the end of the name, no enclosures added at all.  I became aware of my mistake when searching for why nothing worked when attempting to use the Place Completion tool and Place Cleanup gramplet. Neither worked at all. When I attempted to find a place within the cleanup gramplet it returned the error, my geonames account wasn't enabled, even though it was multiple times. But that may be another problem. 

When using the completion tool, searching state, MI, looking in the file MI_Features_20190901.txt,  it returns 3 entries for the other states that also start with Mi, Minnesota, Mississippi and Missouri.  I installed nzjrs-osm-gps-map-1.1.0-26-g9df1353 just before this. After this failure I carried out a test by adding my home with enclosures and that one was found. So apparently enclosures are a prerequisite to using this tool. I can't bear the idea of editing each place. There are just too many.  I am on 64 bit Windows 10.

Thanks for any help.
Connie



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Re: Places

Connie Mack
Good morning, Tony. That tool is not there. I asked Google about it and was lead to a post of yours that said it doesn't work in v5 and wondered you should revert back to v4 when it was available and worked. I should also mention, I have no titles to break into pieces. I don't know where to see titles within gramps either. I only know this from exporting a csv. When I create a place there is no title field. It appears the title is automatically generated after a hierarchy is built. I know this because I have a title showing in the csv file for the place I created a hierarchy for. So, even if the Generate Hierarchy tool was there in my version, it has nothing to create it from. 

I spent some time yesterday learning to use Open Refine and that seems my best option. (Thank you, Jaran (StoltHD) The most difficult part is not making the mistake of treating the wrong same names as if they were actually the same place. A good example is Essex county. The US has 4, Canada and England each have 1. 


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Re: Places

StoltHD
@Connie,The best thing to do is just to add a ISO country code in the "Code" field for those until you are finished, then you have one extra field you can use Facets.
you can use multiple Facets, Text filter and other search function for multiple columns at the same time... its like a search Col1= 1 and Col2=Essex and Col3=USA

If you have "Sort" on any column in Openrefine, you can remove that by clicking on the little arrow on the right of "Sort" in the menu over the field names, this will reset the table as it was before you sorted it, with the split records under there "original" names...

Jaran


tor. 17. okt. 2019 kl. 14:31 skrev Connie Mack <[hidden email]>:
Good morning, Tony. That tool is not there. I asked Google about it and was lead to a post of yours that said it doesn't work in v5 and wondered you should revert back to v4 when it was available and worked. I should also mention, I have no titles to break into pieces. I don't know where to see titles within gramps either. I only know this from exporting a csv. When I create a place there is no title field. It appears the title is automatically generated after a hierarchy is built. I know this because I have a title showing in the csv file for the place I created a hierarchy for. So, even if the Generate Hierarchy tool was there in my version, it has nothing to create it from. 

I spent some time yesterday learning to use Open Refine and that seems my best option. (Thank you, Jaran (StoltHD) The most difficult part is not making the mistake of treating the wrong same names as if they were actually the same place. A good example is Essex county. The US has 4, Canada and England each have 1. 
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Re: Places

Connie Mack
Thanks, Jaran. Am I understanding correctly that I should browes all the rows and add country code on each row that has no ID because of the separation I did to begin with? If so, wouldn't it be better, for example, to use the code US-MA instead of just USA?



On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 9:06 AM StoltHD <[hidden email]> wrote:
@Connie,The best thing to do is just to add a ISO country code in the "Code" field for those until you are finished, then you have one extra field you can use Facets.
you can use multiple Facets, Text filter and other search function for multiple columns at the same time... its like a search Col1= 1 and Col2=Essex and Col3=USA

If you have "Sort" on any column in Openrefine, you can remove that by clicking on the little arrow on the right of "Sort" in the menu over the field names, this will reset the table as it was before you sorted it, with the split records under there "original" names...

Jaran


tor. 17. okt. 2019 kl. 14:31 skrev Connie Mack <[hidden email]>:
Good morning, Tony. That tool is not there. I asked Google about it and was lead to a post of yours that said it doesn't work in v5 and wondered you should revert back to v4 when it was available and worked. I should also mention, I have no titles to break into pieces. I don't know where to see titles within gramps either. I only know this from exporting a csv. When I create a place there is no title field. It appears the title is automatically generated after a hierarchy is built. I know this because I have a title showing in the csv file for the place I created a hierarchy for. So, even if the Generate Hierarchy tool was there in my version, it has nothing to create it from. 

I spent some time yesterday learning to use Open Refine and that seems my best option. (Thank you, Jaran (StoltHD) The most difficult part is not making the mistake of treating the wrong same names as if they were actually the same place. A good example is Essex county. The US has 4, Canada and England each have 1. 
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Re: Places

StoltHD
You can use any code you like, its just for your help to sort where the different places belong...

Just remember, you can if you are doing something you think are "stupid", just create a new project and start over... you are not working in the actual csv file...
And it can also be that the redo history have all you need to go back...

You need to export a new CSV when you are finished...

I think I must have started over atleast a 100 times now... doing something wrong...

jaran

tor. 17. okt. 2019 kl. 18:21 skrev Connie Mack <[hidden email]>:
Thanks, Jaran. Am I understanding correctly that I should browes all the rows and add country code on each row that has no ID because of the separation I did to begin with? If so, wouldn't it be better, for example, to use the code US-MA instead of just USA?



On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 9:06 AM StoltHD <[hidden email]> wrote:
@Connie,The best thing to do is just to add a ISO country code in the "Code" field for those until you are finished, then you have one extra field you can use Facets.
you can use multiple Facets, Text filter and other search function for multiple columns at the same time... its like a search Col1= 1 and Col2=Essex and Col3=USA

If you have "Sort" on any column in Openrefine, you can remove that by clicking on the little arrow on the right of "Sort" in the menu over the field names, this will reset the table as it was before you sorted it, with the split records under there "original" names...

Jaran


tor. 17. okt. 2019 kl. 14:31 skrev Connie Mack <[hidden email]>:
Good morning, Tony. That tool is not there. I asked Google about it and was lead to a post of yours that said it doesn't work in v5 and wondered you should revert back to v4 when it was available and worked. I should also mention, I have no titles to break into pieces. I don't know where to see titles within gramps either. I only know this from exporting a csv. When I create a place there is no title field. It appears the title is automatically generated after a hierarchy is built. I know this because I have a title showing in the csv file for the place I created a hierarchy for. So, even if the Generate Hierarchy tool was there in my version, it has nothing to create it from. 

I spent some time yesterday learning to use Open Refine and that seems my best option. (Thank you, Jaran (StoltHD) The most difficult part is not making the mistake of treating the wrong same names as if they were actually the same place. A good example is Essex county. The US has 4, Canada and England each have 1. 
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Re: Places

GRAMPS - User mailing list
I’m working on a Place Cleanup utility that may help.  It currently outputs a place as “city, county, state/prov, country” but I plan to add the ability to split that to separate place objects for Gramps.  It should take me about a week to add that.

To use the utility, you do an XML export from Gramps, the utility then goes through the Places and suggests fixes, then you do XML import back to Gramps.

For more details:  


Features:

  • Rich global place name database from geonames.org optimized for Genealogy including cemeteries, historic locations, and religious locations.
  • Designed for correcting large files. Keeps track of your progress.
  • Adds missing information such as missing state/province, county, or country.
  • Standardizes place names
  • The original file is never touched. When you are ready with your fixes, you can generate a separate file for import to your Gedcom or Gramps software
  • Adds latitude/longitude
  • Wildcard search of place database
  • Phonetic search of place database
  • Advanced search of place database by type (e.g. cemeteries or churches)
  • Highlights locations where the event date is before European settlement (only supported for the US and Canada, only for GEDCOM files, not Gramps XML)

On Oct 17, 2019, at 11:33 AM, StoltHD <[hidden email]> wrote:

You can use any code you like, its just for your help to sort where the different places belong...

Just remember, you can if you are doing something you think are "stupid", just create a new project and start over... you are not working in the actual csv file...
And it can also be that the redo history have all you need to go back...

You need to export a new CSV when you are finished...

I think I must have started over atleast a 100 times now... doing something wrong...

jaran

tor. 17. okt. 2019 kl. 18:21 skrev Connie Mack <[hidden email]>:
Thanks, Jaran. Am I understanding correctly that I should browes all the rows and add country code on each row that has no ID because of the separation I did to begin with? If so, wouldn't it be better, for example, to use the code US-MA instead of just USA?



On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 9:06 AM StoltHD <[hidden email]> wrote:
@Connie,The best thing to do is just to add a ISO country code in the "Code" field for those until you are finished, then you have one extra field you can use Facets.
you can use multiple Facets, Text filter and other search function for multiple columns at the same time... its like a search Col1= 1 and Col2=Essex and Col3=USA

If you have "Sort" on any column in Openrefine, you can remove that by clicking on the little arrow on the right of "Sort" in the menu over the field names, this will reset the table as it was before you sorted it, with the split records under there "original" names...

Jaran


tor. 17. okt. 2019 kl. 14:31 skrev Connie Mack <[hidden email]>:
Good morning, Tony. That tool is not there. I asked Google about it and was lead to a post of yours that said it doesn't work in v5 and wondered you should revert back to v4 when it was available and worked. I should also mention, I have no titles to break into pieces. I don't know where to see titles within gramps either. I only know this from exporting a csv. When I create a place there is no title field. It appears the title is automatically generated after a hierarchy is built. I know this because I have a title showing in the csv file for the place I created a hierarchy for. So, even if the Generate Hierarchy tool was there in my version, it has nothing to create it from. 

I spent some time yesterday learning to use Open Refine and that seems my best option. (Thank you, Jaran (StoltHD) The most difficult part is not making the mistake of treating the wrong same names as if they were actually the same place. A good example is Essex county. The US has 4, Canada and England each have 1. 
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Re: Places

Connie Mack

You're welcome, Sam. Mike, sounds like a great tool. I'll definitely make use of it if I haven't cleaned mine up yet by then.

Thanks, Jaran. I spent the afternoon simply using a Name facet that included a State full name and my entries with the abbreviated form, filling in the id and other fields that show on the main state entry. I inserted the US geocode in the enclosed by column. That was a lot of changes done very quickly so I feel successful so far.

On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 5:31 PM mikeh <[hidden email]> wrote:
I’m working on a Place Cleanup utility that may help.  It currently outputs a place as “city, county, state/prov, country” but I plan to add the ability to split that to separate place objects for Gramps.  It should take me about a week to add that.

To use the utility, you do an XML export from Gramps, the utility then goes through the Places and suggests fixes, then you do XML import back to Gramps.

For more details:  


Features:

  • Rich global place name database from geonames.org optimized for Genealogy including cemeteries, historic locations, and religious locations.
  • Designed for correcting large files. Keeps track of your progress.
  • Adds missing information such as missing state/province, county, or country.
  • Standardizes place names
  • The original file is never touched. When you are ready with your fixes, you can generate a separate file for import to your Gedcom or Gramps software
  • Adds latitude/longitude
  • Wildcard search of place database
  • Phonetic search of place database
  • Advanced search of place database by type (e.g. cemeteries or churches)
  • Highlights locations where the event date is before European settlement (only supported for the US and Canada, only for GEDCOM files, not Gramps XML)

On Oct 17, 2019, at 11:33 AM, StoltHD <[hidden email]> wrote:

You can use any code you like, its just for your help to sort where the different places belong...

Just remember, you can if you are doing something you think are "stupid", just create a new project and start over... you are not working in the actual csv file...
And it can also be that the redo history have all you need to go back...

You need to export a new CSV when you are finished...

I think I must have started over atleast a 100 times now... doing something wrong...

jaran

tor. 17. okt. 2019 kl. 18:21 skrev Connie Mack <[hidden email]>:
Thanks, Jaran. Am I understanding correctly that I should browes all the rows and add country code on each row that has no ID because of the separation I did to begin with? If so, wouldn't it be better, for example, to use the code US-MA instead of just USA?



On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 9:06 AM StoltHD <[hidden email]> wrote:
@Connie,The best thing to do is just to add a ISO country code in the "Code" field for those until you are finished, then you have one extra field you can use Facets.
you can use multiple Facets, Text filter and other search function for multiple columns at the same time... its like a search Col1= 1 and Col2=Essex and Col3=USA

If you have "Sort" on any column in Openrefine, you can remove that by clicking on the little arrow on the right of "Sort" in the menu over the field names, this will reset the table as it was before you sorted it, with the split records under there "original" names...

Jaran


tor. 17. okt. 2019 kl. 14:31 skrev Connie Mack <[hidden email]>:
Good morning, Tony. That tool is not there. I asked Google about it and was lead to a post of yours that said it doesn't work in v5 and wondered you should revert back to v4 when it was available and worked. I should also mention, I have no titles to break into pieces. I don't know where to see titles within gramps either. I only know this from exporting a csv. When I create a place there is no title field. It appears the title is automatically generated after a hierarchy is built. I know this because I have a title showing in the csv file for the place I created a hierarchy for. So, even if the Generate Hierarchy tool was there in my version, it has nothing to create it from. 

I spent some time yesterday learning to use Open Refine and that seems my best option. (Thank you, Jaran (StoltHD) The most difficult part is not making the mistake of treating the wrong same names as if they were actually the same place. A good example is Essex county. The US has 4, Canada and England each have 1. 
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Re: Places

Tony Gordon
In reply to this post by Connie Mack
Connie

The tool is there (I just checked the website I gave the link to in my original post) and it does work on Gramps 5 (I very recently used it to convert about 1100 CSV place titles into a place hierarchy in a Gramps database built from an imported GEDCOM). I seem to have misunderstood your original query, but maybe someone else will find the information useful.

Tony

On Thu, 2019-10-17 at 08:30 -0400, Connie Mack wrote:
Good morning, Tony. That tool is not there. I asked Google about it and was lead to a post of yours that said it doesn't work in v5 and wondered you should revert back to v4 when it was available and worked. I should also mention, I have no titles to break into pieces. I don't know where to see titles within gramps either. I only know this from exporting a csv. When I create a place there is no title field. It appears the title is automatically generated after a hierarchy is built. I know this because I have a title showing in the csv file for the place I created a hierarchy for. So, even if the Generate Hierarchy tool was there in my version, it has nothing to create it from. 

I spent some time yesterday learning to use Open Refine and that seems my best option. (Thank you, Jaran (StoltHD) The most difficult part is not making the mistake of treating the wrong same names as if they were actually the same place. A good example is Essex county. The US has 4, Canada and England each have 1. 


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Re: Places

Patrick Gerlier
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - User mailing list

Hi Mikeh,

Your utility adds long/lat. Fine, but 1" (angular) is roughly 30 meters (or 100 feet) which means with DD° MM' SS" you're so accurate that there is some arbitrary factor in the choice of the coordinates.

I don't know what is in geonames. If I judge by what I find in Wikipedia, coordinates are rather the position of the contributor when (s)he read them from the GPS receiver and, often, this is not a "remarkable" location. It is particularly noticeable in large towns.

As a consequnce, I don't use those public coordinates as not representative of the place. I prefer to look for the town hall in OpenStreetMap and take the coordinates (and even with 1"-precision there is still an arbitrary part in it). For hamlet or other places without administrative building, I keep the church location since the old records are mainly parish records. By default, I use some "center" location.

My question is: how reliable are the public coordinates? How relevant are they, genealogically speaking?

Patrick

Le 17/10/2019 à 23:31, mikeh via Gramps-users a écrit :
I’m working on a Place Cleanup utility that may help.  It currently outputs a place as “city, county, state/prov, country” but I plan to add the ability to split that to separate place objects for Gramps.  It should take me about a week to add that.

To use the utility, you do an XML export from Gramps, the utility then goes through the Places and suggests fixes, then you do XML import back to Gramps.

For more details:  


Features:

  • Rich global place name database from geonames.org optimized for Genealogy including cemeteries, historic locations, and religious locations.
  • Designed for correcting large files. Keeps track of your progress.
  • Adds missing information such as missing state/province, county, or country.
  • Standardizes place names
  • The original file is never touched. When you are ready with your fixes, you can generate a separate file for import to your Gedcom or Gramps software
  • Adds latitude/longitude
  • Wildcard search of place database
  • Phonetic search of place database
  • Advanced search of place database by type (e.g. cemeteries or churches)
  • Highlights locations where the event date is before European settlement (only supported for the US and Canada, only for GEDCOM files, not Gramps XML)



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Re: Places

StoltHD
@Tony,

I tried to run the GeneratePlaces plugin now, against a sqlite database, this is the result:

103402: ERROR: tool.py: line 257: Failed to start tool.
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Program Files\GrampsAIO64-5.1.1\gramps\gui\plug\tool.py", line 253, in gui_tool
    callback = callback)
  File ",,,\AppData\Roaming\gramps\gramps51\plugins\GeneratePlaces\generateplace.py", line 42, in __init__
    self.run()
  File "...\AppData\Roaming\gramps\gramps51\plugins\GeneratePlaces\generateplace.py", line 70, in run
    for name, handle in self.find_hierarchy(names)[:-1]:
  File "...\AppData\Roaming\gramps\gramps51\plugins\GeneratePlaces\generateplace.py", line 97, in find_hierarchy
    level = self.get_countries()
  File "...\AppData\Roaming\gramps\gramps51\plugins\GeneratePlaces\generateplace.py", line 118, in get_countries
    for handle in self.db.find_place_child_handles(''):
AttributeError: 'SQLite' object has no attribute 'find_place_child_handles'

...........................
This is the tool as I downloaded it in 2018, and as the last one I found in the bugtrack you linked to...

I think it take less time doing the job in Excel, Access, or Openrefine, than starting error searching... But it would have been a great tool if it worked.

Jaran


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Re: Places

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Patrick Gerlier
The coordinates and all the geo data are from geonames.org.   They are based on open source community contributed data. A large part of their data is uploads from government sites.  The main interface for user contributed data is dropping a pin on a satellite image.  I’ve only reviewed around 100 locations but all have been accurate to building level.  From what I’ve seen the data is surprisingly good.  The weakest part is probably non-English names (they’re frequently not added).  

On Oct 18, 2019, at 12:41 AM, Patrick Gerlier <[hidden email]> wrote:



Hi Mikeh,

Your utility adds long/lat. Fine, but 1" (angular) is roughly 30 meters (or 100 feet) which means with DD° MM' SS" you're so accurate that there is some arbitrary factor in the choice of the coordinates.

I don't know what is in geonames. If I judge by what I find in Wikipedia, coordinates are rather the position of the contributor when (s)he read them from the GPS receiver and, often, this is not a "remarkable" location. It is particularly noticeable in large towns.

As a consequnce, I don't use those public coordinates as not representative of the place. I prefer to look for the town hall in OpenStreetMap and take the coordinates (and even with 1"-precision there is still an arbitrary part in it). For hamlet or other places without administrative building, I keep the church location since the old records are mainly parish records. By default, I use some "center" location.

My question is: how reliable are the public coordinates? How relevant are they, genealogically speaking?

Patrick

Le 17/10/2019 à 23:31, mikeh via Gramps-users a écrit :
I’m working on a Place Cleanup utility that may help.  It currently outputs a place as “city, county, state/prov, country” but I plan to add the ability to split that to separate place objects for Gramps.  It should take me about a week to add that.

To use the utility, you do an XML export from Gramps, the utility then goes through the Places and suggests fixes, then you do XML import back to Gramps.

For more details:  


Features:

  • Rich global place name database from geonames.org optimized for Genealogy including cemeteries, historic locations, and religious locations.
  • Designed for correcting large files. Keeps track of your progress.
  • Adds missing information such as missing state/province, county, or country.
  • Standardizes place names
  • The original file is never touched. When you are ready with your fixes, you can generate a separate file for import to your Gedcom or Gramps software
  • Adds latitude/longitude
  • Wildcard search of place database
  • Phonetic search of place database
  • Advanced search of place database by type (e.g. cemeteries or churches)
  • Highlights locations where the event date is before European settlement (only supported for the US and Canada, only for GEDCOM files, not Gramps XML)



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Re: Places

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Patrick Gerlier
For town locations, I believe it is the same coordinate that OpenStreetMap uses for the town name label.  Everyone I’ve seen has exactly matched that.  

On Oct 18, 2019, at 12:41 AM, Patrick Gerlier <[hidden email]> wrote:



Hi Mikeh,

Your utility adds long/lat. Fine, but 1" (angular) is roughly 30 meters (or 100 feet) which means with DD° MM' SS" you're so accurate that there is some arbitrary factor in the choice of the coordinates.

I don't know what is in geonames. If I judge by what I find in Wikipedia, coordinates are rather the position of the contributor when (s)he read them from the GPS receiver and, often, this is not a "remarkable" location. It is particularly noticeable in large towns.

As a consequnce, I don't use those public coordinates as not representative of the place. I prefer to look for the town hall in OpenStreetMap and take the coordinates (and even with 1"-precision there is still an arbitrary part in it). For hamlet or other places without administrative building, I keep the church location since the old records are mainly parish records. By default, I use some "center" location.

My question is: how reliable are the public coordinates? How relevant are they, genealogically speaking?

Patrick

Le 17/10/2019 à 23:31, mikeh via Gramps-users a écrit :
I’m working on a Place Cleanup utility that may help.  It currently outputs a place as “city, county, state/prov, country” but I plan to add the ability to split that to separate place objects for Gramps.  It should take me about a week to add that.

To use the utility, you do an XML export from Gramps, the utility then goes through the Places and suggests fixes, then you do XML import back to Gramps.

For more details:  


Features:

  • Rich global place name database from geonames.org optimized for Genealogy including cemeteries, historic locations, and religious locations.
  • Designed for correcting large files. Keeps track of your progress.
  • Adds missing information such as missing state/province, county, or country.
  • Standardizes place names
  • The original file is never touched. When you are ready with your fixes, you can generate a separate file for import to your Gedcom or Gramps software
  • Adds latitude/longitude
  • Wildcard search of place database
  • Phonetic search of place database
  • Advanced search of place database by type (e.g. cemeteries or churches)
  • Highlights locations where the event date is before European settlement (only supported for the US and Canada, only for GEDCOM files, not Gramps XML)



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Re: Places

Patrick Gerlier
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - User mailing list

Thanks for answering. I may have been a bit confused. I don't criticize coordinate accuracy. I just question about what they represent. If you take the example of New York, covering many kilometers, what does NY City lat/lon designate? Center Park? Times Square? Town Hall? Saint Patrick's?

Another example: in Paris (France), there is a landmark in front of Notre-Dame which is km 0 for all roads. But this landmark is not the location of any "official" building. It is at least 3-4" (arc-seconds) away from any building.

If I record an event taking place in New York, such as birth, marriage or death (without other precision), I arbitrarily make the choice to associate it with the local authority able to legally record this event, i.e. a town hall in Europe. This is the reason of my choice. And this is also why I can't rely on Wikipedia's coordinates because they aren't consistent with my choice. Again, others may have different preferences.

Patrick

Le 18/10/2019 à 21:03, corb a écrit :
The coordinates and all the geo data are from geonames.org.   They are based on open source community contributed data. A large part of their data is uploads from government sites.  The main interface for user contributed data is dropping a pin on a satellite image.  I’ve only reviewed around 100 locations but all have been accurate to building level.  From what I’ve seen the data is surprisingly good.  The weakest part is probably non-English names (they’re frequently not added).  

On Oct 18, 2019, at 12:41 AM, Patrick Gerlier [hidden email] wrote:



Hi Mikeh,

Your utility adds long/lat. Fine, but 1" (angular) is roughly 30 meters (or 100 feet) which means with DD° MM' SS" you're so accurate that there is some arbitrary factor in the choice of the coordinates.

I don't know what is in geonames. If I judge by what I find in Wikipedia, coordinates are rather the position of the contributor when (s)he read them from the GPS receiver and, often, this is not a "remarkable" location. It is particularly noticeable in large towns.

As a consequnce, I don't use those public coordinates as not representative of the place. I prefer to look for the town hall in OpenStreetMap and take the coordinates (and even with 1"-precision there is still an arbitrary part in it). For hamlet or other places without administrative building, I keep the church location since the old records are mainly parish records. By default, I use some "center" location.

My question is: how reliable are the public coordinates? How relevant are they, genealogically speaking?

Patrick

Le 17/10/2019 à 23:31, mikeh via Gramps-users a écrit :
I’m working on a Place Cleanup utility that may help.  It currently outputs a place as “city, county, state/prov, country” but I plan to add the ability to split that to separate place objects for Gramps.  It should take me about a week to add that.

To use the utility, you do an XML export from Gramps, the utility then goes through the Places and suggests fixes, then you do XML import back to Gramps.

For more details:  


Features:

  • Rich global place name database from geonames.org optimized for Genealogy including cemeteries, historic locations, and religious locations.
  • Designed for correcting large files. Keeps track of your progress.
  • Adds missing information such as missing state/province, county, or country.
  • Standardizes place names
  • The original file is never touched. When you are ready with your fixes, you can generate a separate file for import to your Gedcom or Gramps software
  • Adds latitude/longitude
  • Wildcard search of place database
  • Phonetic search of place database
  • Advanced search of place database by type (e.g. cemeteries or churches)
  • Highlights locations where the event date is before European settlement (only supported for the US and Canada, only for GEDCOM files, not Gramps XML)



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Re: Places

StoltHD
In reply to this post by Connie Mack

Patrick, 
It will not be a problem to change any locations coordinates later iff you find them to be out of position for your use...

And just an additional comment on geonames, it holds data not only for cites or building, but also terrain landmarks, parks, lakes, islands, and it have a lot of known buildings like gov. Or libraries, hospital, churches and rhe like... 
And it has a hierachy list for all of this data...

And, if you later want to add an area for a city or district onstead of a pinpoint, it will be real easy to use the GOV tool when the coordinates are already there..

The only really big priblem with both of this databases is historical data, the GOV database has some, both mainly for central Europe, and as said before, native/local names are not always added... But with tools for both of those databases, Gramps will have a really advanced Place handeling that no other genealogy software are close to...

J

Fra: Patrick Gerlier <[hidden email]>
Sendt: fredag 18. oktober 2019, 21.21
Til: corb
Kopi: Gramps User MailList
Emne: Re: [Gramps-users] Places

Thanks for answering. I may have been a bit confused. I don't criticize coordinate accuracy. I just question about what they represent. If you take the example of New York, covering many kilometers, what does NY City lat/lon designate? Center Park? Times Square? Town Hall? Saint Patrick's?

Another example: in Paris (France), there is a landmark in front of Notre-Dame which is km 0 for all roads. But this landmark is not the location of any "official" building. It is at least 3-4" (arc-seconds) away from any building.

If I record an event taking place in New York, such as birth, marriage or death (without other precision), I arbitrarily make the choice to associate it with the local authority able to legally record this event, i.e. a town hall in Europe. This is the reason of my choice. And this is also why I can't rely on Wikipedia's coordinates because they aren't consistent with my choice. Again, others may have different preferences.

Patrick

Le 18/10/2019 à 21:03, corb a écrit :
The coordinates and all the geo data are from geonames.org.   They are based on open source community contributed data. A large part of their data is uploads from government sites.  The main interface for user contributed data is dropping a pin on a satellite image.  I’ve only reviewed around 100 locations but all have been accurate to building level.  From what I’ve seen the data is surprisingly good.  The weakest part is probably non-English names (they’re frequently not added).  

On Oct 18, 2019, at 12:41 AM, Patrick Gerlier [hidden email] wrote:



Hi Mikeh,

Your utility adds long/lat. Fine, but 1" (angular) is roughly 30 meters (or 100 feet) which means with DD° MM' SS" you're so accurate that there is some arbitrary factor in the choice of the coordinates.

I don't know what is in geonames. If I judge by what I find in Wikipedia, coordinates are rather the position of the contributor when (s)he read them from the GPS receiver and, often, this is not a "remarkable" location. It is particularly noticeable in large towns.

As a consequnce, I don't use those public coordinates as not representative of the place. I prefer to look for the town hall in OpenStreetMap and take the coordinates (and even with 1"-precision there is still an arbitrary part in it). For hamlet or other places without administrative building, I keep the church location since the old records are mainly parish records. By default, I use some "center" location.

My question is: how reliable are the public coordinates? How relevant are they, genealogically speaking?

Patrick

Le 17/10/2019 à 23:31, mikeh via Gramps-users a écrit :
I’m working on a Place Cleanup utility that may help.  It currently outputs a place as “city, county, state/prov, country” but I plan to add the ability to split that to separate place objects for Gramps.  It should take me about a week to add that.

To use the utility, you do an XML export from Gramps, the utility then goes through the Places and suggests fixes, then you do XML import back to Gramps.

For more details:  


Features:

  • Rich global place name database from geonames.org optimized for Genealogy including cemeteries, historic locations, and religious locations.
  • Designed for correcting large files. Keeps track of your progress.
  • Adds missing information such as missing state/province, county, or country.
  • Standardizes place names
  • The original file is never touched. When you are ready with your fixes, you can generate a separate file for import to your Gedcom or Gramps software
  • Adds latitude/longitude
  • Wildcard search of place database
  • Phonetic search of place database
  • Advanced search of place database by type (e.g. cemeteries or churches)
  • Highlights locations where the event date is before European settlement (only supported for the US and Canada, only for GEDCOM files, not Gramps XML)




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Re: Places

Dave Scheipers
In reply to this post by Patrick Gerlier
Hi Patrick

You bring up that these place tools will set coordinates for places,
but not knowing just where in a city like NYC, or even a small
village, the coordinates point to.

Once the coordinates are set in Gramps, you can select the place,
right-click, and then "Look up with Map Service". The mapping will use
the coordinates if set. With no coordinates, the mapping will attempt
to find the place by the name.

You can set which map service to use and to run it using the place menu icons.

HTH Dave

On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 3:21 PM Patrick Gerlier <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Thanks for answering. I may have been a bit confused. I don't criticize coordinate accuracy. I just question about what they represent. If you take the example of New York, covering many kilometers, what does NY City lat/lon designate? Center Park? Times Square? Town Hall? Saint Patrick's?
>
> Another example: in Paris (France), there is a landmark in front of Notre-Dame which is km 0 for all roads. But this landmark is not the location of any "official" building. It is at least 3-4" (arc-seconds) away from any building.
>
> If I record an event taking place in New York, such as birth, marriage or death (without other precision), I arbitrarily make the choice to associate it with the local authority able to legally record this event, i.e. a town hall in Europe. This is the reason of my choice. And this is also why I can't rely on Wikipedia's coordinates because they aren't consistent with my choice. Again, others may have different preferences.
>
> Patrick
>
> Le 18/10/2019 à 21:03, corb a écrit :
>
> The coordinates and all the geo data are from geonames.org.   They are based on open source community contributed data. A large part of their data is uploads from government sites.  The main interface for user contributed data is dropping a pin on a satellite image.  I’ve only reviewed around 100 locations but all have been accurate to building level.  From what I’ve seen the data is surprisingly good.  The weakest part is probably non-English names (they’re frequently not added).
>
> On Oct 18, 2019, at 12:41 AM, Patrick Gerlier <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Hi Mikeh,
>
> Your utility adds long/lat. Fine, but 1" (angular) is roughly 30 meters (or 100 feet) which means with DD° MM' SS" you're so accurate that there is some arbitrary factor in the choice of the coordinates.
>
> I don't know what is in geonames. If I judge by what I find in Wikipedia, coordinates are rather the position of the contributor when (s)he read them from the GPS receiver and, often, this is not a "remarkable" location. It is particularly noticeable in large towns.
>
> As a consequnce, I don't use those public coordinates as not representative of the place. I prefer to look for the town hall in OpenStreetMap and take the coordinates (and even with 1"-precision there is still an arbitrary part in it). For hamlet or other places without administrative building, I keep the church location since the old records are mainly parish records. By default, I use some "center" location.
>
> My question is: how reliable are the public coordinates? How relevant are they, genealogically speaking?
>
> Patrick
>
> Le 17/10/2019 à 23:31, mikeh via Gramps-users a écrit :
>
> I’m working on a Place Cleanup utility that may help.  It currently outputs a place as “city, county, state/prov, country” but I plan to add the ability to split that to separate place objects for Gramps.  It should take me about a week to add that.
>
> To use the utility, you do an XML export from Gramps, the utility then goes through the Places and suggests fixes, then you do XML import back to Gramps.
>
> For more details:
>
> https://github.com/corb555/GeoFinder/wiki/User-Guide
>
> Features:
>
> Rich global place name database from geonames.org optimized for Genealogy including cemeteries, historic locations, and religious locations.
> Designed for correcting large files. Keeps track of your progress.
> Adds missing information such as missing state/province, county, or country.
> Standardizes place names
> The original file is never touched. When you are ready with your fixes, you can generate a separate file for import to your Gedcom or Gramps software
> Adds latitude/longitude
> Wildcard search of place database
> Phonetic search of place database
> Advanced search of place database by type (e.g. cemeteries or churches)
> Highlights locations where the event date is before European settlement (only supported for the US and Canada, only for GEDCOM files, not Gramps XML)
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Re: Places

Connie Mack
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - User mailing list
Mikeh, regarding your Geofinder utility, please post in this thread when it is released. Which version of python do we need (Windows 10), full or one of the smaller packages? There are 3 others, the smallest being meant to embed into a larger application. Also, the user guide for Geofinder says ideally the places are in hierarchy form. Does that mean the "enclosed" feature has been used before creating the xml file or will it recognize "city, county, state" as a hierarchy? I'm working with OpenRefine successfully, but it's a long process with over 10,000 rows of data and multiple places with the same name.

On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 5:31 PM mikeh <[hidden email]> wrote:
I’m working on a Place Cleanup utility that may help.  It currently outputs a place as “city, county, state/prov, country” but I plan to add the ability to split that to separate place objects for Gramps.  It should take me about a week to add that.

To use the utility, you do an XML export from Gramps, the utility then goes through the Places and suggests fixes, then you do XML import back to Gramps.

For more details:  


Features:

  • Rich global place name database from geonames.org optimized for Genealogy including cemeteries, historic locations, and religious locations.
  • Designed for correcting large files. Keeps track of your progress.
  • Adds missing information such as missing state/province, county, or country.
  • Standardizes place names
  • The original file is never touched. When you are ready with your fixes, you can generate a separate file for import to your Gedcom or Gramps software
  • Adds latitude/longitude
  • Wildcard search of place database
  • Phonetic search of place database
  • Advanced search of place database by type (e.g. cemeteries or churches)
  • Highlights locations where the event date is before European settlement (only supported for the US and Canada, only for GEDCOM files, not Gramps XML)

On Oct 17, 2019, at 11:33 AM, StoltHD <[hidden email]> wrote:

You can use any code you like, its just for your help to sort where the different places belong...

Just remember, you can if you are doing something you think are "stupid", just create a new project and start over... you are not working in the actual csv file...
And it can also be that the redo history have all you need to go back...

You need to export a new CSV when you are finished...

I think I must have started over atleast a 100 times now... doing something wrong...

jaran

tor. 17. okt. 2019 kl. 18:21 skrev Connie Mack <[hidden email]>:
Thanks, Jaran. Am I understanding correctly that I should browes all the rows and add country code on each row that has no ID because of the separation I did to begin with? If so, wouldn't it be better, for example, to use the code US-MA instead of just USA?



On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 9:06 AM StoltHD <[hidden email]> wrote:
@Connie,The best thing to do is just to add a ISO country code in the "Code" field for those until you are finished, then you have one extra field you can use Facets.
you can use multiple Facets, Text filter and other search function for multiple columns at the same time... its like a search Col1= 1 and Col2=Essex and Col3=USA

If you have "Sort" on any column in Openrefine, you can remove that by clicking on the little arrow on the right of "Sort" in the menu over the field names, this will reset the table as it was before you sorted it, with the split records under there "original" names...

Jaran


tor. 17. okt. 2019 kl. 14:31 skrev Connie Mack <[hidden email]>:
Good morning, Tony. That tool is not there. I asked Google about it and was lead to a post of yours that said it doesn't work in v5 and wondered you should revert back to v4 when it was available and worked. I should also mention, I have no titles to break into pieces. I don't know where to see titles within gramps either. I only know this from exporting a csv. When I create a place there is no title field. It appears the title is automatically generated after a hierarchy is built. I know this because I have a title showing in the csv file for the place I created a hierarchy for. So, even if the Generate Hierarchy tool was there in my version, it has nothing to create it from. 

I spent some time yesterday learning to use Open Refine and that seems my best option. (Thank you, Jaran (StoltHD) The most difficult part is not making the mistake of treating the wrong same names as if they were actually the same place. A good example is Essex county. The US has 4, Canada and England each have 1. 
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