Please help us define the new reports

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Please help us define the new reports

Don Allingham
One of the advantages of an Open Source project is that user's can have
direct feedback into the direction of the project. But in order for this
to work, we need actual feedback.

Here is your chance to help us. You don't need to be able to code. You
just need to be able to type.

We need your ideas on what our text based reports should look like. This
includes what type of data should be included in the report. I'd first
like to tackle the Ancestors and Decendants reports (since we have
several of each of these, which is probably too many), however, we are
not limiting anything to just these two styles of reports.

Send us your mockups of what you would like to see. Send us a PDF,
OpenOffice, KWord, AbiWord, LaTeX, or Postscript file that shows what
you think a report should be. I'll post these on the website for
comments by all users.

Providing a mockup is the great way to help. The major reason we were
able to redesign the Web Page generator is because we had examples
provided by about three people. We were able to combine features from
all these samples to produce our new generator.

I want to extend the success we had there to the other reports. However,
  only your participation will make this work.

Thanks.

Don


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[Gramps-devel] Re: Please help us define the new reports

Jim Winfrey
Well Don, you did ask for this input.  The attached chart is one that
has been in Brother's Keeper since forever.  I use it extensively for
reunions, etc because it can show all descendants, not just direct
line.

Jim

On 9/15/05, Don Allingham <[hidden email]> wrote:

> One of the advantages of an Open Source project is that user's can have
> direct feedback into the direction of the project. But in order for this
> to work, we need actual feedback.
>
> Here is your chance to help us. You don't need to be able to code. You
> just need to be able to type.
>
> We need your ideas on what our text based reports should look like. This
> includes what type of data should be included in the report. I'd first
> like to tackle the Ancestors and Decendants reports (since we have
> several of each of these, which is probably too many), however, we are
> not limiting anything to just these two styles of reports.
>
> Send us your mockups of what you would like to see. Send us a PDF,
> OpenOffice, KWord, AbiWord, LaTeX, or Postscript file that shows what
> you think a report should be. I'll post these on the website for
> comments by all users.
>
> Providing a mockup is the great way to help. The major reason we were
> able to redesign the Web Page generator is because we had examples
> provided by about three people. We were able to combine features from
> all these samples to produce our new generator.
>
> I want to extend the success we had there to the other reports. However,
>   only your participation will make this work.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Don
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server.
> Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very
> own Sony(tm)PSP.  Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>

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Re: [Gramps-devel] Please help us define the new reports

Robert Chéramy
In reply to this post by Don Allingham
I'd like a compact descendant tree, like this one:

http://members.chello.at/eckstein_we/Strauss_Descendants.htm

Cheers,

Robert

Don Allingham wrote:

> One of the advantages of an Open Source project is that user's can have
> direct feedback into the direction of the project. But in order for this
> to work, we need actual feedback.
>
> Here is your chance to help us. You don't need to be able to code. You
> just need to be able to type.
>
> We need your ideas on what our text based reports should look like. This
> includes what type of data should be included in the report. I'd first
> like to tackle the Ancestors and Decendants reports (since we have
> several of each of these, which is probably too many), however, we are
> not limiting anything to just these two styles of reports.
>
> Send us your mockups of what you would like to see. Send us a PDF,
> OpenOffice, KWord, AbiWord, LaTeX, or Postscript file that shows what
> you think a report should be. I'll post these on the website for
> comments by all users.
>
> Providing a mockup is the great way to help. The major reason we were
> able to redesign the Web Page generator is because we had examples
> provided by about three people. We were able to combine features from
> all these samples to produce our new generator.
>
> I want to extend the success we had there to the other reports. However,
>  only your participation will make this work.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Don
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server.
> Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very
> own Sony(tm)PSP.  Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>



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Re: Please help us define the new reports

Durand Daniel-2
In reply to this post by Don Allingham
Le Jeudi 15 Septembre 2005 16:52, Don Allingham a écrit :
> One of the advantages of an Open Source project is that user's can have
> direct feedback into the direction of the project. But in order for this
> to work, we need actual feedback.
>
> Here is your chance to help us. You don't need to be able to code. You
> just need to be able to type.

my favorite ascendance graphical report is made by Legacy. I use it to work on
the archive repositories, to excange with others genealogists in meetings. It
is fully customisable :
- 4 or 5 or 6 generations per page
- the number of the next page of a ligneage is indicated on the first page
- it have footpage and headpage
- it can be print in rtf or PDF

--
Cordialement,

Daniel Durand

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Re: Please help us define the new reports

Durand Daniel
In reply to this post by Don Allingham
Le Jeudi 15 Septembre 2005 16:52, Don Allingham a écrit :
> One of the advantages of an Open Source project is that user's can have
> direct feedback into the direction of the project. But in order for this
> to work, we need actual feedback.
>
> Here is your chance to help us. You don't need to be able to code. You
> just need to be able to type.

my favorite ascendance graphical report is made by Legacy. I use it to work on
the archive repositories, to excange with others genealogists in meetings. It
is fully customisable :
- 4 or 5 or 6 generations per page
- the number of the next page of a ligneage is indicated on the first page
- it have footpage and headpage
- it can be print in rtf or PDF

--
Cordialement,

Daniel Durand


--
Cordialement,

Durand Daniel
http://durand-amd.net

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Re: Please help us define the new reports

Anton Huber
In reply to this post by Don Allingham
Hello,
here my suggestions for reports of ancestors and descendants. Robert's
report is that would I prefer, too. His report is almost the same than mine.
The report is german (unfortantely the program "Ahnenblatt is only
german), but I think you can see what I mean.

Best regards,

Anton

Don Allingham schrieb:

> One of the advantages of an Open Source project is that user's can
> have direct feedback into the direction of the project. But in order
> for this to work, we need actual feedback.
>
> Here is your chance to help us. You don't need to be able to code. You
> just need to be able to type.
>
> We need your ideas on what our text based reports should look like.
> This includes what type of data should be included in the report. I'd
> first like to tackle the Ancestors and Decendants reports (since we
> have several of each of these, which is probably too many), however,
> we are not limiting anything to just these two styles of reports.
>
> Send us your mockups of what you would like to see. Send us a PDF,
> OpenOffice, KWord, AbiWord, LaTeX, or Postscript file that shows what
> you think a report should be. I'll post these on the website for
> comments by all users.
>
> Providing a mockup is the great way to help. The major reason we were
> able to redesign the Web Page generator is because we had examples
> provided by about three people. We were able to combine features from
> all these samples to produce our new generator.
>
> I want to extend the success we had there to the other reports.
> However,  only your participation will make this work.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Don
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server.
> Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your
> very
> own Sony(tm)PSP.  Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>
>


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Re: Please help us define the new reports

Brian Matherly-2
In reply to this post by Don Allingham
What I would like to see is a verbose decendant report. In this report, each
person (or possibly family) would have a dedicated page. Each page would
include all the information currently in the individual summary report - or
even better, all the information on a page of the Narrative web site. The
narrative website is an incredibly rich format for browsing family information.
Basically, what I want is the narrative website in a report but organized in
decendant order.

Of course, this would create a lot of redundant information. A single name
would appear any place that it is a son/daughter, sibling, spouse, and
father/mother.
It would be especially nice if each instance of a name could include the page
number for that particular person.

The reasoning behind this type of report would be that I can print a 300 page
report and give it to my grandfather. He can add things over the years with a
pen. Eventually, I might put his annotations back into GRAMPS.

It would also be nice for reunions because people can look themselvs up and see
all their family at a glance.

I have attached a rough example.

~Brian

--- Don Allingham <[hidden email]> wrote:

> One of the advantages of an Open Source project is that user's can have
> direct feedback into the direction of the project. But in order for this
> to work, we need actual feedback.
>
> Here is your chance to help us. You don't need to be able to code. You
> just need to be able to type.
>
> We need your ideas on what our text based reports should look like. This
> includes what type of data should be included in the report. I'd first
> like to tackle the Ancestors and Decendants reports (since we have
> several of each of these, which is probably too many), however, we are
> not limiting anything to just these two styles of reports.
>
> Send us your mockups of what you would like to see. Send us a PDF,
> OpenOffice, KWord, AbiWord, LaTeX, or Postscript file that shows what
> you think a report should be. I'll post these on the website for
> comments by all users.
>
> Providing a mockup is the great way to help. The major reason we were
> able to redesign the Web Page generator is because we had examples
> provided by about three people. We were able to combine features from
> all these samples to produce our new generator.
>
> I want to extend the success we had there to the other reports. However,
>   only your participation will make this work.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Don
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server.
> Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very
> own Sony(tm)PSP.  Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>

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Re: [Gramps-devel] Re: Please help us define the new reports

Eero Tamminen
In reply to this post by Jim Winfrey
Hi,

I would prefer something done with tables, like in the attached HTML page.
The ancestors and descendents could be shown either vertically (like in my
example), or vertically.  It would be nice if user could select this based
on the page size (landscape or portrait etc).

With graphics, the output is IMHO a bit too much dependent on how well
Gramps font metrics match the output format / program (which is a recurring
problem with the StatisticsChart report).

        - Eero

On Thursday 15 September 2005 18:02, Jim Winfrey wrote:

> Well Don, you did ask for this input.  The attached chart is one that
> has been in Brother's Keeper since forever.  I use it extensively for
> reunions, etc because it can show all descendants, not just direct
> line.
>
> Jim
>
> On 9/15/05, Don Allingham <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > One of the advantages of an Open Source project is that user's can have
> > direct feedback into the direction of the project. But in order for
> > this to work, we need actual feedback.
> >
> > Here is your chance to help us. You don't need to be able to code. You
> > just need to be able to type.
> >
> > We need your ideas on what our text based reports should look like.
> > This includes what type of data should be included in the report. I'd
> > first like to tackle the Ancestors and Decendants reports (since we
> > have several of each of these, which is probably too many), however, we
> > are not limiting anything to just these two styles of reports.
> >
> > Send us your mockups of what you would like to see. Send us a PDF,
> > OpenOffice, KWord, AbiWord, LaTeX, or Postscript file that shows what
> > you think a report should be. I'll post these on the website for
> > comments by all users.
> >
> > Providing a mockup is the great way to help. The major reason we were
> > able to redesign the Web Page generator is because we had examples
> > provided by about three people. We were able to combine features from
> > all these samples to produce our new generator.
> >
> > I want to extend the success we had there to the other reports.
> > However, only your participation will make this work.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> > Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server.
> > Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your
> > very own Sony(tm)PSP.  Click here to play:
> > http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gramps-users mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users

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Re: Please help us define the new reports

Bruce DeGrasse
In reply to this post by Don Allingham
I have been experimenting with an index to DetAncestralReport and since it
looks very similar to one of the suggested report formats I am forwarding a
listing of its current version.   I am interested in any comments.  

Bruce

On Thursday 15 September 2005 09:52 am, Don Allingham wrote:

> One of the advantages of an Open Source project is that user's can have
> direct feedback into the direction of the project. But in order for this
> to work, we need actual feedback.
>
> Here is your chance to help us. You don't need to be able to code. You
> just need to be able to type.
>
> We need your ideas on what our text based reports should look like. This
> includes what type of data should be included in the report. I'd first
> like to tackle the Ancestors and Decendants reports (since we have
> several of each of these, which is probably too many), however, we are
> not limiting anything to just these two styles of reports.
>
> Send us your mockups of what you would like to see. Send us a PDF,
> OpenOffice, KWord, AbiWord, LaTeX, or Postscript file that shows what
> you think a report should be. I'll post these on the website for
> comments by all users.
>
> Providing a mockup is the great way to help. The major reason we were
> able to redesign the Web Page generator is because we had examples
> provided by about three people. We were able to combine features from
> all these samples to produce our new generator.
>
> I want to extend the success we had there to the other reports. However,
>   only your participation will make this work.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Don
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server.
> Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very
> own Sony(tm)PSP.  Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users

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Re: Please help us define the new reports

Steve Hall-4
In reply to this post by Don Allingham
On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 08:52 -0600, Don Allingham wrote:
>
[snip]
> We need your ideas on what our text based reports should look like.

Below are links to sample reports of those typically needed in basic
genealogy. I especially like these because they convey the data well
and do not distract the user with all sorts of un-important graphics
and flourishes. They look clean and professional but could be easily
matched by a novice using a word processor.

The five descendant reports illustrate different formats that various
organizations require. (They won't look at reports in any format other
than their single prefered one.) The Register and Modified Register
are particularly strict, but at some point, GRAMPS should really offer
all these if to be used professionally.

[None bigger than 36Kb.]

http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/Ahnentafel.pdf
http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/Ancestor.pdf
http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/BoxChart.pdf
http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/BoxChart-alt.pdf
http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/DescendantReport-Indented-DAborville.pdf
http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/DescendantReport-Indented-Henry.pdf
http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/DescendantReport-Indented-outline.pdf
http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/DescendantReport-ModRegister.pdf
http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/DescendantReport-Register.pdf
http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/FamilyGroup.pdf
http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/Individual.pdf
http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/Pedigree.pdf


With the style sheet approach similar to that of the web page
generator, these could be turned into many looks, just as we saw in
the web page generator. (For example, the above Box Chart and
alternate.)

HTH.

--
Steve Hall  [ digitect mindspring com ]




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Re: Please help us define the new reports

Durand Daniel
Le Vendredi 16 Septembre 2005 05:49, Steve Hall a écrit :
> On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 08:52 -0600, Don Allingham wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > We need your ideas on what our text based reports should look like.
>
> Below are links to sample reports of those typically needed in basic
> genealogy.

OK, <I agree, they sound good. They are similar as reports in Legacy.
We need specially to have sources and index names in all ascendance and
descendance book report
>
> http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/Ahnentafel.pdf
hum...it's a poor report.  I prefere the ability to have the choice to add
Ahnentafel or Sosa-Stradowicz numbers to all the ascendance reports and
charts (important in France)
> http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/Ancestor.pdf
OK
> http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/BoxChart.pdf
> http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/BoxChart-alt.pdf
I'm not very happy with these reports. I know it's difficult to have a good
descendance chart..
> http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/DescendantReport-Indented-DAborville.pdf
OK good
> http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/DescendantReport-Indented-Henry.pdf
> http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/DescendantReport-Indented-outline.pdf
Hum, are they very useful ?
> http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/DescendantReport-ModRegister.pdf
> http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/DescendantReport-Register.pdf
I prefer the secund. Good
> http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/FamilyGroup.pdf
> http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/Individual.pdf
OK
> http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/Pedigree.pdf
OK but I prefer the ascendance sheet report with boxes that I posted yesterday

But my main purpose is to launch a debate to get an original ascendance book
and a descendance book too which are more complete than these one..
The problem to have a good book is the fact that an history is made confused
with the many different lines (in ascendance and descendance). So, I would
like to have the ability to have only the "patrilineal" line in ascendance
(is ist correct in english ? It's only the ancestors of your name) and the
same in descendance : "agnatic" report.
For ascendance, it's the Sosa 2 - 4 - 8 - 16 -32 - etc...
For descendance, ti could be a tag to mark the "preferred" person.
With such restricted number of ancestor or descendant people, we can have more
detailed informations about every person. I joint two samples inspired from
Geneweb reports.


--
Cordialement,

Durand Daniel
http://durand-amd.net

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Re: Please help us define the new reports

Steve Hall-4
On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 08:31 +0200, Durand Daniel wrote:
> Le Vendredi 16 Septembre 2005 05:49, Steve Hall a écrit :
> >
> > http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/Ahnentafel.pdf
> hum...it's a poor report.  I prefere the ability to have the choice
> to add Ahnentafel or Sosa-Stradowicz numbers to all the ascendance
> reports and charts (important in France)

I would agree, I'm not a fan of Ahnentafel but some prefer it and it
is a long-standing and widely accepted format.

> > http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/Ancestor.pdf
> OK
> > http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/BoxChart.pdf
> > http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/BoxChart-alt.pdf
> I'm not very happy with these reports. I know it's difficult to have
> a good descendance chart..

The advantage of a Box Chart is that it can draw 10 generations on the
same page. Very useful to show "me" up 10 generations of fathers, for
example.

> > http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/DescendantReport-Indented-DAborville.pdf
> OK good
> > http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/DescendantReport-Indented-Henry.pdf
> > http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/DescendantReport-Indented-outline.pdf
> Hum, are they very useful ?

Some people like Henry numbering. Outline is less useful IMO, although
I've seen it used before.

> > http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/DescendantReport-ModRegister.pdf
> > http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/DescendantReport-Register.pdf
> I prefer the secund. Good

The National Genealogical Society Quarterly would disagree. :) (They
now require the "NGS Quarterly" system, the Modified Register format
but with numbers for all individuals, not just those with issue.)

> > http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/FamilyGroup.pdf
> > http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/Individual.pdf
> OK
> > http://dancingpaper.com/tmp/Pedigree.pdf
> OK but I prefer the ascendance sheet report with boxes that I posted
> yesterday

Doesn't look like our list archives store attachments for me to
refresh my memory, did that sheet allow overlap of generations or did
each require its own column?

> But my main purpose is to launch a debate to get an original
> ascendance book and a descendance book too which are more complete
> than these one..

Both Ancestor and Descendent reports above are exhaustive, all data in
the database is published. At generation, there were options for
displaying children, notes, source (font, volume, citation text,
comments, use of "ibid.", footnote format), preparer, photos, fonts,
header, date format, individual index and number of columns, and
whether to print to screen, PDF, .txt, or .RTF.

> The problem to have a good book is the fact that an history is made
> confused with the many different lines (in ascendance and
> descendance).

An Ancestor report should not have descendants and vice-versa.

> So, I would like to have the ability to have only the "patrilineal"
> line in ascendance (is ist correct in english ? It's only the
> ancestors of your name)

This is really just a variation of Ancestor report, only the fathers
without spouses and related family are shown.


--
Steve Hall  [ digitect mindspring com ]




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[Gramps-devel] Re: Please help us define the new reports

Brian Matherly-2
In reply to this post by Don Allingham
What an excellent response we have had on this topic. If you really think about
it, the reports add the most value to the whole program. What's the point of
having all your data in a database if you can not extract it out into useful
forms for viewing.

Since this is such an important topic and I have personal interest in this
topic right now, I'd like to keep the momentum up. To help facilitate
conversation, I've started a page in the prototyping sandbox on the developer's
wiki. It can be found at:

http://developers.gramps-project.org/tiki-index.php?page=ExampleDecendantReport

Feel free to add your examples and comments. If you want me to add anything for
you, just let me know.

Remember, it is the responsibility of the users to help the developers
understand what we need.

~Brian


--- Don Allingham <[hidden email]> wrote:

> One of the advantages of an Open Source project is that user's can have
> direct feedback into the direction of the project. But in order for this
> to work, we need actual feedback.
>
> Here is your chance to help us. You don't need to be able to code. You
> just need to be able to type.
>
> We need your ideas on what our text based reports should look like. This
> includes what type of data should be included in the report. I'd first
> like to tackle the Ancestors and Decendants reports (since we have
> several of each of these, which is probably too many), however, we are
> not limiting anything to just these two styles of reports.
>
> Send us your mockups of what you would like to see. Send us a PDF,
> OpenOffice, KWord, AbiWord, LaTeX, or Postscript file that shows what
> you think a report should be. I'll post these on the website for
> comments by all users.
>
> Providing a mockup is the great way to help. The major reason we were
> able to redesign the Web Page generator is because we had examples
> provided by about three people. We were able to combine features from
> all these samples to produce our new generator.
>
> I want to extend the success we had there to the other reports. However,
>   only your participation will make this work.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Don




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Re: Please help us define the new reports

Duncan Lithgow
In reply to this post by Brian Matherly-2
Brian Matherly wrote:

> What I would like to see is a verbose decendant report. In this report, each
> person (or possibly family) would have a dedicated page. Each page would
> include all the information currently in the individual summary report - or
> even better, all the information on a page of the Narrative web site. The
> narrative website is an incredibly rich format for browsing family information.
> Basically, what I want is the narrative website in a report but organized in
> decendant order.
>
> Of course, this would create a lot of redundant information. A single name
> would appear any place that it is a son/daughter, sibling, spouse, and
> father/mother.
> It would be especially nice if each instance of a name could include the page
> number for that particular person.
>
> The reasoning behind this type of report would be that I can print a 300 page
> report and give it to my grandfather. He can add things over the years with a
> pen. Eventually, I might put his annotations back into GRAMPS.
>
> It would also be nice for reunions because people can look themselvs up and see
> all their family at a glance.
>
> I have attached a rough example.
>
> ~Brian
I fully endorse this one, for the same reasons as above. Doesn't have to
look good but would need an index by name or something similar.

Duncan


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