Possible place enhancements for v5.1

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Re: Tip: Place Abbreviation workaround

Nick Hall
On 13/02/2019 16:36, Dave Scheipers wrote:
> Why not incorporate the Zip/Postal code into a modified Gramps ID? The
> ID is already searchable in the place selection list.

Not only is the Gramps ID searchable, it is also indexed.  In most views
you can jump to a Gramps ID using Ctrl-J.

The code field is intended for all types of codes including:  zip codes,
country codes, Chapman code, regional administrative codes etc...

We could make this field, or its future equivalent searchable.

It is worth noting that, in general, postal codes can change over time.


Nick.




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Re: Possible place enhancements for v5.1

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by StoltHD
On 12/02/2019 21:42, StoltHD wrote:
> Both Google and OSM have some support for polygon data, as has
> multiple others, but the problem will be if the are inter-operative
> between the different services...
> GOV is a good service, but for many places there are no usable data...
> and for many places there are only German names and the information on
> the places are written in German... something that might become a
> bigger problem for users than having a feature of adding Events or not
> to a place/location?

Perhaps you could contribute translations to the GOV project?


>
> I think all of the suggestions made in your first mail was really good
> additions to a Great Software, without in any form "bloating" it, but
> since I'm clearly not a member of the "Inner Gramps Clan", my opinion
> doesnt count, and it seems that I must fork my own version of Gramps
> or find a new software to use... and since i'm not a developer, there
> seems to be just one option...

Your opinion does count, which is why I asked the question on this list.

Nick.




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Re: Tip: Place Abbreviation workaround

brian fitzgerald
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - User mailing list
Not to put a damper on the excellent ideas displayed here but before rolling out 5.1 can the devs please take a look at some of the supporting functions like filters, tools, etc to see if they will will provide the needed direct and indirect support for any of the new data model features and the reporting methods too. Just a cautionary reminder.

brian

On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 12:34 PM phil wharram via Gramps-users <[hidden email]> wrote:



Hi All

Post (zip) codes only introduced in the UK between 1959 and 1974 (and
they are alpha numeric) so not a lot of use for family history unless
you are interested in living families also during that time they have
been updated, increased, revised so not a stable platform on which to
base anything really

Latitude and Longitude are longer term and yes I do understand a little
of the physical and geopolitical way these have been changed/manipulated
and not exactly easy to remember.

I have looked at GetGov a few times but it appears to be suffering the
Brexit effect not a lot of UK interest.

So I am keen to see if I can get the place hierarchy working with the
proposed enhancements

Regards
Phil
MLFHS 12583
Dumfries
On 13/02/2019 17:11, Ron Johnson wrote:
>
>
> What about all the places that don't have postal codes?
>
> On 2/13/19 10:36 AM, Dave Scheipers wrote:
>> Hi Brian
>>
>> This Got me thinking....
>>
>> Why not incorporate the Zip/Postal code into a modified Gramps ID? The
>> ID is already searchable in the place selection list.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 7:17 PM Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Thought I'd share a place selection workaround that's proven useful.
>>>
>>> Since most of the places entered are for family their events
>>> occurring around places where I've also lived, I find myself drilling
>>> down the the same part of the (grouped) Place list over & over & over.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, the names of my hometown, county, and township are
>>> neither unique nor 1st among equals.  So I can't use the interactive
>>> search & it takes too long to choose the right one from a list of
>>> duplicate names. (For more about the interactive search feature, see
>>> Fig. 8.4 in
>>> https://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/Gramps_5.0_Wiki_Manual_-_Navigation#Finding_records
>>> )
>>>
>>> On the other hand, their American Postal Codes (called ZIP Codes) are
>>> unique & well remembered.  You could use the standard Abbreviations
>>> since they may be as memorable for you.
>>>
>>> So I added post-dated (after 3000AD) ZIP code Alternate Name entries
>>> for those 3 cities in the US.
>>>
>>> Now I can type in those ZIP codes in the Name Contains search field
>>> and the Primary name of the Place appears in the selector. ----- and
>>> ZIP codes are QUICK because I can 10-key it on a numeric keypad.
>>>
>>> If the place is just in the same county, I can still use my ZIPs. A
>>> version 5 tweak to the Place selector interface lets us Drill up or
>>> Drill Down after searching by selecting (click, don't double-click) a
>>> found Place, click the Clear button. The unfiltered list will
>>> re-appear --- centered and groupings expanded to show the selected
>>> Place.
>>>
>>> Ordinarily, I would use a temporary Tag for for amalgamating a
>>> temporary list of family haunts. (Create a Custom Filter that
>>> isolates the extended extended immediate family, then a second Filter
>>> that finds all Places associated with Events for that family & Tag
>>> those Places. The Tagged list is a 'Shortlist' of Places most likely
>>> to be used for new Events in this Family.)
>>>
>>> And the online manual section suggests the Country or Postal Code
>>> belong in the Code field when creating or editting Places.
>>> https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/Places_in_Gramps#Editing_Places
>>>
>>> When I started with Gramps, I decided to put US states Abbreviations
>>> in the Code field. (like Pennsylvania is US-PA) But I haven't
>>> discovered the added value which might justify that effort.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, neither the Code field nor the Tag field can be
>>> searched during Place selection. And only searchable fields are
>>> helpful for streamlining repetitive data entry.
>>>
>>> You COULD expand on the concept to build workaround hierarchies. 
>>> Like a series of Place With post-dated categories as Alternate Names.
>>> (Like the 20 townships spanning 3 counties across 2 states that we
>>> called the Tri-CountyArea.) But much of the regional 'drilling'
>>> exploration functionally goes away each time you Clear the search.
>>>
>>> Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions? (The one about a psychiatrist
>>> appointment has already been noted.)
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 15:45, Ron Johnson
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> I also think we should add abbreviations to place names and
>>>> citations to
>>>> place names, place types and "enclosed by" links. Some people indicated
>>>> that they will find them useful, and these features can be added in
>>>> a neat
>>>> and consistent manner with the rest of Gramps.
>>> Abbreviations would be stunningly useful.  Currently, I hack around
>>> it using "Replace Display Format", but would rather have this.
>


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Re: Possible place enhancements for v5.1

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by StoltHD
On 13/02/2019 15:33, StoltHD wrote:

> I really believe it is some differences between Dated Attributes and
> Events, but of the two I can utilize Events (for places) better than
> dated attributes, because I also can add People or Families as
> participants to the Events... And if its not added citations to the
> Attributes, the Events will be the preferred way, because of the
> citations... but at the same time, there are things that fit better as
> a Dated Attribute than an Event, like i.e. the size of a farm or
> house, how many buildings on a property, the type of a ship, the color
> of a house, the amount of people leaving in on a farm or in a house at
> a given time (it might not be census information that can be added to
> the census event), what floor a family live on, the apartment number...

I still can't think of any situation where a dated attribute would be
better than an event attribute.  Can you give us an example of a
real-life source?

Nick.




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Re: Possible place enhancements for v5.1

Ron Johnson
On 2/13/19 11:54 AM, Nick Hall wrote:

> On 13/02/2019 15:33, StoltHD wrote:
>> I really believe it is some differences between Dated Attributes and
>> Events, but of the two I can utilize Events (for places) better than
>> dated attributes, because I also can add People or Families as
>> participants to the Events... And if its not added citations to the
>> Attributes, the Events will be the preferred way, because of the
>> citations... but at the same time, there are things that fit better as a
>> Dated Attribute than an Event, like i.e. the size of a farm or house, how
>> many buildings on a property, the type of a ship, the color of a house,
>> the amount of people leaving in on a farm or in a house at a given time
>> (it might not be census information that can be added to the census
>> event), what floor a family live on, the apartment number...
>
> I still can't think of any situation where a dated attribute would be
> better than an event attribute.  Can you give us an example of a real-life
> source?

Change of Social Security Number, Identification Number and Passport.  But
honestly it can be handled with notes.

--
Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.


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Re: Tip: Place Abbreviation workaround

Dave Scheipers
In reply to this post by Ron Johnson
From what I took from Brian's post, he only does his special coding
for a select number of commonly used place records. Any other place
would get a standard ID.

The alternate question would be: What about places that have more than
one postal code?

And of course, the problem with using any ID to store information
other than a generic ID is the need to be careful if the Reorder ID
tool is ever used. The new tool (for 5.0) is much better at
restricting which areas and what it does with ID's. But it still has
the means to overwrite any custom use of an ID.

Dave

On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 12:12 PM Ron Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>
> What about all the places that don't have postal codes?
>
> On 2/13/19 10:36 AM, Dave Scheipers wrote:
> > Hi Brian
> >
> > This Got me thinking....
> >
> > Why not incorporate the Zip/Postal code into a modified Gramps ID? The
> > ID is already searchable in the place selection list.
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 7:17 PM Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> Thought I'd share a place selection workaround that's proven useful.
> >>
> >> Since most of the places entered are for family their events occurring around places where I've also lived, I find myself drilling down the the same part of the (grouped) Place list over & over & over.
> >>
> >> Unfortunately, the names of my hometown, county, and township are neither unique nor 1st among equals.  So I can't use the interactive search & it takes too long to choose the right one from a list of duplicate names. (For more about the interactive search feature, see Fig. 8.4 in https://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/Gramps_5.0_Wiki_Manual_-_Navigation#Finding_records )
> >>
> >> On the other hand, their American Postal Codes (called ZIP Codes) are unique & well remembered.  You could use the standard Abbreviations since they may be as memorable for you.
> >>
> >> So I added post-dated (after 3000AD) ZIP code Alternate Name entries for those 3 cities in the US.
> >>
> >> Now I can type in those ZIP codes in the Name Contains search field and the Primary name of the Place appears in the selector. ----- and ZIP codes are QUICK because I can 10-key it on a numeric keypad.
> >>
> >> If the place is just in the same county, I can still use my ZIPs. A version 5 tweak to the Place selector interface lets us Drill up or Drill Down after searching by selecting (click, don't double-click) a found Place, click the Clear button. The unfiltered list will re-appear --- centered and groupings expanded to show the selected Place.
> >>
> >> Ordinarily, I would use a temporary Tag for for amalgamating a temporary list of family haunts. (Create a Custom Filter that isolates the extended extended immediate family, then a second Filter that finds all Places associated with Events for that family & Tag those Places. The Tagged list is a 'Shortlist' of Places most likely to be used for new Events in this Family.)
> >>
> >> And the online manual section suggests the Country or Postal Code belong in the Code field when creating or editting Places.
> >> https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/Places_in_Gramps#Editing_Places
> >> When I started with Gramps, I decided to put US states Abbreviations in the Code field. (like Pennsylvania is US-PA) But I haven't discovered the added value which might justify that effort.
> >>
> >> Unfortunately, neither the Code field nor the Tag field can be searched during Place selection. And only searchable fields are helpful for streamlining repetitive data entry.
> >>
> >> You COULD expand on the concept to build workaround hierarchies.  Like a series of Place With post-dated categories as Alternate Names. (Like the 20 townships spanning 3 counties across 2 states that we called the Tri-CountyArea.) But much of the regional 'drilling' exploration functionally goes away each time you Clear the search.
> >>
> >> Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions? (The one about a psychiatrist appointment has already been noted.)
> >>
> >> On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 15:45, Ron Johnson
> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>> I also think we should add abbreviations to place names and citations to
> >>> place names, place types and "enclosed by" links. Some people indicated
> >>> that they will find them useful, and these features can be added in a neat
> >>> and consistent manner with the rest of Gramps.
> >> Abbreviations would be stunningly useful.  Currently, I hack around it using "Replace Display Format", but would rather have this.
>
> --
> Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> https://gramps-project.org


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Re: Possible place enhancements for v5.1

StoltHD
In reply to this post by Nick Hall
If we have Events for Places, No I can't...
other that i.e.
  • How many people that lives on a place at a given time
  • How many houses on a farm
  • the value and the size of a place/house
  • the taxes on a property
  • how many cattles, barrels of wheat, potatoes, corn that was produced at a given time
  • the color of or the building materials
  • Color of hair for a person  at a given time
  • the Height of a person at a given time
  • The Major of a town for a given time (if you don't want to add it as an Event and add the Major as a Person in your database)
Actually all metadata for a subject, same way as media has metadata, like change dates, creation date, keywords or description...
You don't need to use the date field, but it can be nice to have it to record small time specific changes to a subject...
The Attributes for an Event most likely follows the timeline of the Event it self, but it can also here be small changes that would be nice to have...

Actually, if adding time to Place Types, this is a Dated Attribute, as Type is an Attribute for the Place...
... and we can add an Event for when a Place Type changed instead of having a date field and a list for the type...

So the differences are small for some Attributes vs. Events, but have a larger impact for other types...

But for my usage I would be happy with Events for Places, its much more important for me than Attributes with dates (I really would like attributes on places though, but if I have Events for places, I don't need dates on attributes for places), and if we also could add citations to Attributes on Events, It would solve a lot of "issues"...

Jaran



Den ons. 13. feb. 2019 kl. 18:56 skrev Nick Hall <[hidden email]>:
On 13/02/2019 15:33, StoltHD wrote:
> I really believe it is some differences between Dated Attributes and
> Events, but of the two I can utilize Events (for places) better than
> dated attributes, because I also can add People or Families as
> participants to the Events... And if its not added citations to the
> Attributes, the Events will be the preferred way, because of the
> citations... but at the same time, there are things that fit better as
> a Dated Attribute than an Event, like i.e. the size of a farm or
> house, how many buildings on a property, the type of a ship, the color
> of a house, the amount of people leaving in on a farm or in a house at
> a given time (it might not be census information that can be added to
> the census event), what floor a family live on, the apartment number...

I still can't think of any situation where a dated attribute would be
better than an event attribute.  Can you give us an example of a
real-life source?

Nick.




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Re: Tip: Place Abbreviation workaround

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Ron Johnson
I just use ZIP code as an example becase, having lived in the three particular areas and addressed numerous envelopes, I could remember them easily and they typed easily.  

I could have used any reasonably unique mnemonic as a post-dated Alternate Name... like StinkyRustBelt1 or FunkyTown1. 

(I suggest a number '1' in the pseudonym because none of my place names have numbers. So search '1' would find all my pseudonyms. Your mileage may vary.)

You'll REALLY be doing yourself a disfavor if you try to come up with rules to extend this tip universally. The more pseudonyms you add, the less memorable the tip becomes and the more effort it takes to maintain.

On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 11:14, Ron Johnson


What about all the places that don't have postal codes?

On 2/13/19 10:36 AM, Dave Scheipers wrote:

> Hi Brian
>
> This Got me thinking....
>
> Why not incorporate the Zip/Postal code into a modified Gramps ID? The
> ID is already searchable in the place selection list.
>
> On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 7:17 PM Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Thought I'd share a place selection workaround that's proven useful.
>>
>> Since most of the places entered are for family their events occurring around places where I've also lived, I find myself drilling down the the same part of the (grouped) Place list over & over & over.
>>
>> Unfortunately, the names of my hometown, county, and township are neither unique nor 1st among equals.  So I can't use the interactive search & it takes too long to choose the right one from a list of duplicate names. (For more about the interactive search feature, see Fig. 8.4 in https://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/Gramps_5.0_Wiki_Manual_-_Navigation#Finding_records )
>>
>> On the other hand, their American Postal Codes (called ZIP Codes) are unique & well remembered.  You could use the standard Abbreviations since they may be as memorable for you.
>>
>> So I added post-dated (after 3000AD) ZIP code Alternate Name entries for those 3 cities in the US.
>>
>> Now I can type in those ZIP codes in the Name Contains search field and the Primary name of the Place appears in the selector. ----- and ZIP codes are QUICK because I can 10-key it on a numeric keypad.
>>
>> If the place is just in the same county, I can still use my ZIPs. A version 5 tweak to the Place selector interface lets us Drill up or Drill Down after searching by selecting (click, don't double-click) a found Place, click the Clear button. The unfiltered list will re-appear --- centered and groupings expanded to show the selected Place.
>>
>> Ordinarily, I would use a temporary Tag for for amalgamating a temporary list of family haunts. (Create a Custom Filter that isolates the extended extended immediate family, then a second Filter that finds all Places associated with Events for that family & Tag those Places. The Tagged list is a 'Shortlist' of Places most likely to be used for new Events in this Family.)
>>
>> And the online manual section suggests the Country or Postal Code belong in the Code field when creating or editting Places.
>> https://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php/Places_in_Gramps#Editing_Places
>> When I started with Gramps, I decided to put US states Abbreviations in the Code field. (like Pennsylvania is US-PA) But I haven't discovered the added value which might justify that effort.
>>
>> Unfortunately, neither the Code field nor the Tag field can be searched during Place selection. And only searchable fields are helpful for streamlining repetitive data entry.
>>
>> You COULD expand on the concept to build workaround hierarchies.  Like a series of Place With post-dated categories as Alternate Names. (Like the 20 townships spanning 3 counties across 2 states that we called the Tri-CountyArea.) But much of the regional 'drilling' exploration functionally goes away each time you Clear the search.
>>
>> Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions? (The one about a psychiatrist appointment has already been noted.)
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 15:45, Ron Johnson
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I also think we should add abbreviations to place names and citations to
>>> place names, place types and "enclosed by" links. Some people indicated
>>> that they will find them useful, and these features can be added in a neat
>>> and consistent manner with the rest of Gramps.
>> Abbreviations would be stunningly useful.  Currently, I hack around it using "Replace Display Format", but would rather have this.

--
Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.



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Re: Possible place enhancements for v5.1

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by Ron Johnson
On 13/02/2019 18:06, Ron Johnson wrote:
I still can't think of any situation where a dated attribute would be better than an event attribute.  Can you give us an example of a real-life source?

Change of Social Security Number, Identification Number and Passport.  But honestly it can be handled with notes.

A passport would give evidence of nationality.   This is not normally time-dependent, although the more interesting events would be when a person either acquires a new nationality or loses one.

Nick.




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Re: Possible place enhancements for v5.1

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by StoltHD
On 13/02/2019 19:11, StoltHD wrote:
If we have Events for Places, No I can't...
other that i.e.
  • How many people that lives on a place at a given time
  • How many houses on a farm
  • the value and the size of a place/house
  • the taxes on a property
  • how many cattles, barrels of wheat, potatoes, corn that was produced at a given time
  • the color of or the building materials
  • Color of hair for a person  at a given time
  • the Height of a person at a given time
  • The Major of a town for a given time (if you don't want to add it as an Event and add the Major as a Person in your database)


You can already record this type of information in Gramps using events and attributes.  The related sources almost always refer to an event.

 

Actually all metadata for a subject, same way as media has metadata, like change dates, creation date, keywords or description...
You don't need to use the date field, but it can be nice to have it to record small time specific changes to a subject...
The Attributes for an Event most likely follows the timeline of the Event it self, but it can also here be small changes that would be nice to have...

Actually, if adding time to Place Types, this is a Dated Attribute, as Type is an Attribute for the Place...
... and we can add an Event for when a Place Type changed instead of having a date field and a list for the type...


We don't plan to model place types as attributes.



So the differences are small for some Attributes vs. Events, but have a larger impact for other types...

But for my usage I would be happy with Events for Places, its much more important for me than Attributes with dates (I really would like attributes on places though, but if I have Events for places, I don't need dates on attributes for places), and if we also could add citations to Attributes on Events, It would solve a lot of "issues"...


You can already add citations to attributes.


Nick.




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Re: Possible place enhancements for v5.1

Philip Weiss
In reply to this post by Nick Hall


On Feb 13 2019, at 11:47 am, Nick Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 13/02/2019 18:06, Ron Johnson wrote:
I still can't think of any situation where a dated attribute would be better than an event attribute.  Can you give us an example of a real-life source?

Change of Social Security Number, Identification Number and Passport.  But honestly it can be handled with notes.
A passport would give evidence of nationality.   This is not normally time-dependent, although the more interesting events would be when a person either acquires a new nationality or loses one.

Nick.


Isn't that a Naturalization event?

There doesn't seem to be a standard corresponding event for decitizenship. But that's a pretty uncommon event.  It happens mostly by changes in law that force such things or as a consequence of another event (like women marrying a non-citizen in pre-1924 US).

Phil.


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Re: Possible place enhancements for v5.1

Ron Johnson
In reply to this post by Nick Hall
On 2/13/19 1:47 PM, Nick Hall wrote:
On 13/02/2019 18:06, Ron Johnson wrote:
I still can't think of any situation where a dated attribute would be better than an event attribute.  Can you give us an example of a real-life source?

Change of Social Security Number, Identification Number and Passport.  But honestly it can be handled with notes.

A passport would give evidence of nationality.   This is not normally time-dependent, although the more interesting events would be when a person either acquires a new nationality or loses one.


Does passport number stay the same when you renew it?  And what about when you let it expire and then get another one years later?

These are still minor cases.


--
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Re: Possible place enhancements for v5.1

StoltHD
In reply to this post by Nick Hall
yeh, the citation on attributes  was an typo I forgot to remove, sorry for that...

And I didn't say you planed to or should model the Type as attribute, I only said that the Type Value actually is a Dated Attribute, as an example of a Dated Attributes, just like name, dates, and every other metadata is an attribute of its subject... attributes are only a different name for metadata, properties are just another name for the same thing...


The rest of my answer, you asked me if I could mention any situations where dated attributes would better than Events, this was my answer, and I still think that not everything can be replaced by an Event with Attributes, but if we can get Events on Places that will make my day easier... but if we don't get Events on Places, Dated Attributes on Places will be a a little comfort, and enables registration of some data that would be natural to add as an Event to the Place...

And the fact that I can add something to an attribute on a Event, when I can't add that Event to a Place as the Place as the Subject, doesn't help me much, the Attribute is still the attribute of an Event for a person or a family, not the Attribute of a Place or an attributes for an Event for a Place... the Event are still person centered, not Place centered.

But, I will stop now, because I can't see this going any way... the fact that we can do something in Gramps today, doesn't mean it can't be better ways of doing the same thing...



Den ons. 13. feb. 2019 kl. 20:55 skrev Nick Hall <[hidden email]>:
On 13/02/2019 19:11, StoltHD wrote:
If we have Events for Places, No I can't...
other that i.e.
  • How many people that lives on a place at a given time
  • How many houses on a farm
  • the value and the size of a place/house
  • the taxes on a property
  • how many cattles, barrels of wheat, potatoes, corn that was produced at a given time
  • the color of or the building materials
  • Color of hair for a person  at a given time
  • the Height of a person at a given time
  • The Major of a town for a given time (if you don't want to add it as an Event and add the Major as a Person in your database)


You can already record this type of information in Gramps using events and attributes.  The related sources almost always refer to an event.

 

Actually all metadata for a subject, same way as media has metadata, like change dates, creation date, keywords or description...
You don't need to use the date field, but it can be nice to have it to record small time specific changes to a subject...
The Attributes for an Event most likely follows the timeline of the Event it self, but it can also here be small changes that would be nice to have...

Actually, if adding time to Place Types, this is a Dated Attribute, as Type is an Attribute for the Place...
... and we can add an Event for when a Place Type changed instead of having a date field and a list for the type...


We don't plan to model place types as attributes.



So the differences are small for some Attributes vs. Events, but have a larger impact for other types...

But for my usage I would be happy with Events for Places, its much more important for me than Attributes with dates (I really would like attributes on places though, but if I have Events for places, I don't need dates on attributes for places), and if we also could add citations to Attributes on Events, It would solve a lot of "issues"...


You can already add citations to attributes.


Nick.


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Re: Possible place enhancements for v5.1

Dave Pople
In reply to this post by Nick Hall
I have been following the interesting discussions about place
enhancements. I really don't have an axe to grind on the topic, but one
thing that might be handy (if possible) is to make the Forms gramplet
available for Places. This could then be used to show, for example, the
census history of a particular address. Alternatively, or as well, make
it available for Events.

Thanks for all the effort put in by the developers.

Dave


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Re: Possible place enhancements for v5.1

ingridvg70
In reply to this post by Nick Hall
I would very much like to have attributes (preferably dated) for places for information like the year a house was built or demolished. If you could attach attributes to all objects like you can with notes; and have a menu-item attributes like notes, I'd be even more happy 😊.


Groetjes

Ingrid

-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Hall <[hidden email]>
Sent: dinsdag 12 februari 2019 22:18
To: Gramps-Users <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] Possible place enhancements for v5.1

Thanks for your feedback.

Sixteen people gave opinions on the options I listed.   The most requested features were time-dependent place types and place hierarchy types.  I think we should implement these.

I also think we should add abbreviations to place names and citations to place names, place types and "enclosed by" links. Some people indicated that they will find them useful, and these features can be added in a neat and consistent manner with the rest of Gramps.

That leaves us with attributes and events.  One alternative suggestion was to use time-dependent attributes.  We could either add a date field to all existing attributes or just create a new attribute object for places.  It would be interesting to examine some use cases for time-dependent attributes.  I'm not sure that they have any advantage over events or event attributes.

I can understand concerns over place events.  Allowing places to be the subject of an event is a new concept in Gramps.  It is a powerful concept, but could be confusing for users.  It would also be possible to create a circular reference (Place -> Event -> Place) which we try to avoid.  The only existing example I can think of at the moment is (Media
-> Citation -> Media).

May I remind users that in v5.0 it is possible to define your own place name formats, and specify them to be used when generating reports.  The addition of abbreviations will allow for more compact formats.  It is already possible to specify the levels used.  For example, for some reports you may not need the place name to be displayed with any more details than the populated place level.

There were also requests to improve the existing place user interface. We are always looking for new ideas and for people with good UI design skills.  We are aware that the place editor and place selector could be improved.  There is also a feature request for an easier way to add new places.  Please let us know if you would like to contribute a better design.

Finally, there were a couple of extra points raised:

1. Better integration with the GOV database.

We are moving in this direction.  Storing the GOV ID and UUID without using the existing Gramps ID field will be discussed separately.

2. Support for bounding boxes and polygons.

Adding a field to store a bounding box or zoom level is worth consideration.  However, we are not attempting to be a GIS application. Where would we obtain the polygon data?  Would it actually be useful?

Regards,


Nick.




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Re: Possible place enhancements for v5.1

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Nick Hall



Hi All

Are we in serious danger of throwing out the baby with the bath water
here, below is Nick's original email in which place type is mentioned in
item 2.
I responded at the time I thought this would be of use thinking along
the lines
A Hamlet becomes a Village becomes a Town becomes a City becomes a
Metropolitan Area.
or
A Chapel becomes a Church becomes a Cathedral
or
A Church becomes a Mosque becomes a Restaurant/Cafe becomes a Domestic
Dwelling

Also in regard to item 3 which is regard hierarchical place types

After giving this more thought it becomes obvious that to make that work
for me the existing fixed data is not really any use and most/all my sub
divisions of the heirarchial structure would be custom types which
would/could give rise to reporting and other issues

Geographically the UK is made up of Great Britain + Northern Ireland,
Great Britain is made up of England + Wales + Scotland (at that level we
have Country)
Politically the UK has a UK Parliament, under which comes Parliaments
for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland (but not England), then we have
counties and metropolitan areas (Manchester, Birmingham, London)
The combinations are large just for the UK so multiplying by every
nation state it becomes totally unwieldy

I therefore wonder given that we are talking of potentially making all
users Place Types incorrect/unusable given the large variety of uses to
which this field is currently put is this something for Gramps 6 or 7
rather than Gramps 5.x

Regards
Phil
MLFHS 12583
Dumfries
On 07/02/2019 17:53, Nick Hall wrote:

> Dear Users,
>
> I would like your opinion on the following possible place enhancements:
>
> 1. Place name abbreviations
>
> Allow a place name to have one or more abbreviations.
>
> 2. Time-dependent place types
>
> Allow the place type to change over time.
>
> 3. Place hierarchy types
>
> Allow multiple hierarchies:  Geographic, Politicial, Administrative,
> Ecclesiastical ...
>
> 4. Citations for place names, types and links.
>
> Add a citation list to these lower level objects in addition to the
> place as a whole.
>
> 5. Place attributes
>
> Add an attribute list to places.
>
> 6. Place events
>
> Add an event list to places.
>
>
> Which of the above would you like to see in Gramps?
>
> Is there anything I have missed out?
>
> Are there any of these that you don't think are necessary, or may be too
> complicated or confusing?
>
>
> I look forward to your opinions.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Nick.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> https://gramps-project.org


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