Preferences by installation vs. by database.

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Preferences by installation vs. by database.

John W. Kitz-3
Dave, (and all),

Following the questions, replies and remarks, of myself, Brian, you and
maybe others whose name I forgot, with regards to the use of default and
custom name formats, the possibility to override the default on a per
individual basis, etc., as well as my understanding from those email
exchanges that users in some geographic areas may be better of using another
default name format than users in other geographic areas, e.g. to
concatenate prefixes with the surname by default when displaying or printing
a name rather than display or print it separated from the surname with one
or more spaces, I had a look at the XML that Gramps outputs and noticed the
preference setting are not contained in it.

Consequently any preferences are set for an entire Gramps installation
rather than for the database that a user is working on at any given time, as
result of which it seems impossible to import and work on someone else's
data without either agreeing one mutual default settings or first making
changes to one or more of one's preferred default settings before doing so.

Assuming my previous remarks are correct might it be useful and worthwhile
the effort to make changes to Gramps such that (i) some preference settings
can be configured on a per database rather than a per installation basis and
(ii) those settings are ex- as well as imported along with the data?

Regards, Jk.


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Re: Preferences by installation vs. by database.

Nick Hall
On 20/12/17 22:27, John W. Kitz wrote:
> Assuming my previous remarks are correct might it be useful and worthwhile
> the effort to make changes to Gramps such that (i) some preference settings
> can be configured on a per database rather than a per installation basis and
> (ii) those settings are ex- as well as imported along with the data?

The following settings are exported in the Gramps XML:

Researcher (not the default owner)
Media path
Name formats
Bookmarks
Name mappings

Other settings such as the default owner, rules and report settings are
stored locally either in XML or ini files.

Nick.


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Re: Preferences by installation vs. by database.

John W. Kitz-3
Nick,

On 2017-12-21 16:45, Nick Hall wrote:
> On 20/12/17 22:27, John W. Kitz wrote:
>> Assuming my previous remarks are correct might it be useful and
>> worthwhile
>> the effort to make changes to Gramps such that (i) some preference
>> settings
>> can be configured on a per database rather than a per installation
>> basis and
>> (ii) those settings are ex- as well as imported along with the data?

My question resulted from a thread[1] with the topic "Explanation of the
Group as function in the name editor.", in particular a post[2] in which
it was noted that a Dutch surname such as 'van den Acker' that I would
expect to be sorted, displayed and printed as 'Acker, van den' and
grouped as 'Acker' in English speaking countries in particular the US is
most likely Anglicized to 'Van den Acker' and sorted along with other
names starting with a 'V'.

[1] https://sourceforge.net/p/gramps/mailman/message/36157318/
[2] https://sourceforge.net/p/gramps/mailman/message/36160419/

> The following settings are exported in the Gramps XML:
>
> Researcher (not the default owner)
> Media path
> Name formats

Could you be more specific as to what tag I would have to look for in
the XML to find the name formats ?

> Bookmarks
> Name mappings
>
> Other settings such as the default owner, rules and report settings
> are stored locally either in XML or ini files.
>
> Nick.

Regards, Jk.

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Re: Preferences by installation vs. by database.

Nick Hall
On 21/12/17 20:47, John W. Kitz wrote:
> Could you be more specific as to what tag I would have to look for in
> the XML to find the name formats ?

For name formats look, for the <name-formats> tag near the start of the
file after the header but before the primary objects.

Fir the name groups, look for the <namemaps> tag at the end of the file
after the primary objects.

Nick.



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Re: Preferences by installation vs. by database.

John W. Kitz-3
Nick,

On 2017-12-21 22:03, Nick Hall wrote:
> On 21/12/17 20:47, John W. Kitz wrote:
>> Could you be more specific as to what tag I would have to look for in
>> the XML to find the name formats ?
>
> For name formats look, for the <name-formats> tag near the start of
> the file after the header but before the primary objects.

Those include the default name formats or the custom name formats as
they apply to specific individuals only rather than to the entire
installation?

> Fir the name groups, look for the <namemaps> tag at the end of the
> file after the primary objects.
>
> Nick.

Regards, Jk.

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Re: Preferences by installation vs. by database.

John W. Kitz-3
Nick,

On 2017-12-21 22:13, John W. Kitz wrote:
> Nick,
>
> On 2017-12-21 22:03, Nick Hall wrote:
>> On 21/12/17 20:47, John W. Kitz wrote:
>>> Could you be more specific as to what tag I would have to look for in
>>> the XML to find the name formats ?
>>
>> For name formats look, for the <name-formats> tag near the start of
>> the file after the header but before the primary objects.

I found the tags in the XML.

> Those include the default name formats or the custom name formats as
> they apply to specific individuals only rather than to the entire
> installation?

As well as how they are referred to when one of them is intended to be
specific to any one individual.

>> Fir the name groups, look for the <namemaps> tag at the end of the
>> file after the primary objects.
>>
>> Nick.

An additional question; what triggers the inclusion of the name format
tags during the generation of the XML output?

The reason for asking is that they appear in the XML output of one of
the databases I have, but not in the XML output by another.

Regards, Jk.

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Re: Preferences by installation vs. by database.

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by John W. Kitz-3
On 21/12/17 21:13, John W. Kitz wrote:
For name formats look, for the <name-formats> tag near the start of
the file after the header but before the primary objects.

Those include the default name formats or the custom name formats as they apply to specific individuals only rather than to the entire installation?

Only the custom name formats are exported in the XML.  The formats can then be referenced in the <name> tag.

For example:

<name type="Birth Name" display="-1" sort="-2">
...
</name>

Nick.



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Re: Preferences by installation vs. by database.

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by John W. Kitz-3
On 21/12/17 22:01, John W. Kitz wrote:
> An additional question; what triggers the inclusion of the name format
> tags during the generation of the XML output?

All custom name formats are exported.

Nick.



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Re: Preferences by installation vs. by database.

John W. Kitz-3
Nick,

On 2017-12-21 23:35, Nick Hall wrote:
> On 21/12/17 22:01, John W. Kitz wrote:
>> An additional question; what triggers the inclusion of the name format
>> tags during the generation of the XML output?
>
> All name formats are exported.

But apparently not every time an export is done, since they appear in
the XML output of one of the databases I have, but not in the XML output
by another, hence my question.

>
> Nick.
>

Regards, Jk.

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Re: Preferences by installation vs. by database.

Dave Scheipers
In reply to this post by John W. Kitz-3
Yes John,

If you alter how a specific individual name record displays and/or
sorts, this alternate format is exported and will be imported from
gramps XML backups/exports.

What you have to be careful of, if you have created a custom name
format, and attach it to an individual's name record, if you delete
the naming style option from preferences, any name record using this
as its alternative will revert back to the default set in preferences.

Dave

On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 4:13 PM, John W. Kitz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Nick,
>
> On 2017-12-21 22:03, Nick Hall wrote:
>>
>> On 21/12/17 20:47, John W. Kitz wrote:
>>>
>>> Could you be more specific as to what tag I would have to look for in the
>>> XML to find the name formats ?
>>
>>
>> For name formats look, for the <name-formats> tag near the start of
>> the file after the header but before the primary objects.
>
>
> Those include the default name formats or the custom name formats as they
> apply to specific individuals only rather than to the entire installation?
>
>> Fir the name groups, look for the <namemaps> tag at the end of the
>> file after the primary objects.
>>
>> Nick.
>
>
> Regards, Jk.
>
>
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Re: Preferences by installation vs. by database.

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by John W. Kitz-3
On 21/12/17 22:39, John W. Kitz wrote:
All name formats are exported.

But apparently not every time an export is done, since they appear in the XML output of one of the databases I have, but not in the XML output by another, hence my question.

Name formats are stored in the database.  Each database will have its own set of custom formats.

Nick.



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Re: Preferences by installation vs. by database.

John W. Kitz-3
Nick,

On 2017-12-22 00:05, Nick Hall wrote:

> On 21/12/17 22:39, John W. Kitz wrote:
>
>>> All name formats are exported.
>>
>> But apparently not every time an export is done, since they appear
>> in the XML output of one of the databases I have, but not in the XML
>> output by another, hence my question.
>
> Name formats are stored in the database. Each database will have its
> own set of custom formats.

As far as I can see one either selects name formats from the default
ones or adds new ones depending on one's requirements, in addition when
a new database is opened the name formats that were already available
(through the preference settings) when working on one database are
available for use when working on another database. I.e. the name
formats are configured on a per installation rather than on a per
database basis.

My question however pertains to what triggers the export of the name
formats as part of the XML of any one database.

During the generation and export of XML from one database I confirmed
they were included, while after executing the same process for another
database I noticed they were not contained in the resulting XML.

Consequently and unless I'm doing something wrong there is apparently
something that triggers the name formats to be included in the exported
XML in some cases and not in others.

>
> Nick.

Regards, Jk.

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Re: Preferences by installation vs. by database.

Nick Hall
On 21/12/17 23:24, John W. Kitz wrote:
> My question however pertains to what triggers the export of the name
> formats as part of the XML of any one database.

The relevant source code for the export of name formats can be found here:

https://github.com/gramps-project/gramps/blob/maintenance/gramps42/gramps/plugins/export/exportxml.py#L418

All custom name formats in the database are exported.

Nick.



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NdK
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Re: Preferences by installation vs. by database.

NdK
In reply to this post by Nick Hall
Il 21/12/2017 16:45, Nick Hall ha scritto:

> The following settings are exported in the Gramps XML:
[...]
> Media path
Shouldn't media path be installation-specific?
So if you work from different machines you can set it once instead of
once-per-import...

BYtE,
 Diego

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Re: Preferences by installation vs. by database.

John W. Kitz-3
In reply to this post by Nick Hall
Nick,

On 2017-12-22 00:44, Nick Hall wrote:

> On 21/12/17 23:24, John W. Kitz wrote:
>> My question however pertains to what triggers the export of the name
>> formats as part of the XML of any one database.
>
> The relevant source code for the export of name formats can be found
> here:
>
> https://github.com/gramps-project/gramps/blob/maintenance/gramps42/gramps/plugins/export/exportxml.py#L418
>
> All custom name formats in the database are exported.

I see, yet during the generation and export of XML from one database I
confirmed they were included, while after executing the same process for
another database I noticed they were not contained in the resulting XML.

Consequently and unless I'm doing something wrong I can only conclude
that apparently there is something that causes the name formats to be
included in the exported XML in some cases and not in others.

>
> Nick.
>

Regards, Jk.

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Re: Preferences by installation vs. by database.

prculley
The name_formats are stored in the db, they are NOT installation specific.

Within a given session, if a db loads custom name formats, or if new ones are defined, Gramps 'remembers' the formats, and can use them to display names, even if you load a different db that does not include those name formats.

However, if you save the db, without specifically changing the name formats with the edit/preferences while the db is open, the custom formats are NOT saved.

This can be illustrated by opening or defining a db with a custom format, and setting the overall name display format to that custom format.  Then open a new db that does not contain that custom format.  The new db will appear to be using the previously defined name format for all the names.  If you then close Gramps, without changing anything in edit/preferences, and reopen with the second db, it will 'revert' to using the default or its own previously defined name format.

I can see how this might be confusing. Gramps should probably either:
1) clear the name formats out when a db is closed during a session, so changes don't have any effect of the newly loaded db.
2) save the session name formats in the new db.

I think the former would be less confusing.

Paul C.

On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 5:43 AM, John W. Kitz <[hidden email]> wrote:
Nick,

On 2017-12-22 00:44, Nick Hall wrote:
On 21/12/17 23:24, John W. Kitz wrote:
My question however pertains to what triggers the export of the name formats as part of the XML of any one database.

The relevant source code for the export of name formats can be found here:

https://github.com/gramps-project/gramps/blob/maintenance/gramps42/gramps/plugins/export/exportxml.py#L418

All custom name formats in the database are exported.

I see, yet during the generation and export of XML from one database I confirmed they were included, while after executing the same process for another database I noticed they were not contained in the resulting XML.

Consequently and unless I'm doing something wrong I can only conclude that apparently there is something that causes the name formats to be included in the exported XML in some cases and not in others.


Nick.


Regards, Jk.

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Re: Preferences by installation vs. by database.

Nick Hall
On 22/12/17 14:35, Paul Culley wrote:
> I can see how this might be confusing. Gramps should probably either:
> 1) clear the name formats out when a db is closed during a session, so
> changes don't have any effect of the newly loaded db.
> 2) save the session name formats in the new db.

I agree.  PR 509 should fix this.

https://github.com/gramps-project/gramps/pull/509

However, it is still possible to add name formats when no database is
open, and they will be lost.

Perhaps we should consider separating interface preferences from
database settings?


Nick.



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