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Re: [Gramps-bugs] Reading GED(com) Files

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Re: [Gramps-bugs] Reading GED(com) Files

Benny Malengier
Frank,

Best keep posting to user list also, some gedcom experts there that can perhaps comment on your gedcom.

If you import a gedcom, and there are messages during the import, you will see in the bottom left corner of Gramps a small red icon appear. If you click it, you see all the warning messages Gramps generated during import.

Benny

2012/8/22 <[hidden email]>
Benny and Tim (Guy?)

Thanks for the responses. I'll try to download an update and rebuild the database, after which I'll report back (although this may take a few days as life is interfering again). Here is the original response I sent to Peter which should answer your questions about where the ged file originated:

Hi Peter:

I guess you've caught me red-handed... but thanks for responding.

I keep all of my raw data externally, since I like to edit it in what is, at least to me, a much more straightforward fashion than using a GUI (I'm an old, but efficient old fogey).

I then use a rather large set of what are essentially GREP macros to generate new replacement sections for the GEDCOM file. There is a header, of course, followed by the INDI section. After this comes a section containing notes, followed by the family definition section.

Individual records look like this, although obviously the level of detail varies widely:

0 @I2667@ INDI
 1 IDNO 2667
 1 NAME Kiziah /Gonce/
   2 SURN Gonce
   2 GIVN Kiziah
   2 _MARNM Rogers
   2 SOUR @S64@
     3 PAGE 34
     3 QUAY 2
 1 SEX F
 1 BIRT
   2 DATE 1822
   2 PLAC Hawkins County, TN
 1 DEAT
   2 DATE 1848
 1 REFN 2667

Family records look like the following:

0 @F5@ FAM
 1 HUSB @I3@
 1 WIFE @I129@
 1 MARR
   2 DATE 28 JUN 1943
   2 PLAC Blessed Sacrament Church; Baltimore MD
 1 CHIL @I133@
   2 _FREL Natural
   2 _MREL Natural
 1 CHIL @I136@
   2 _FREL Natural
   2 _MREL Natural
 1 CHIL @I138@
   2 _FREL Natural
   2 _MREL Natural

In this example, for instance, I suspect that the fact that there are no family lines within the INDI segments for IDs 3, 129, 133, 136 and 138 must indicate that Gramps wanted those entries to be present. What confuses me is that the error output clearly showed that Gramps knew that 133, 136 and 138 were children of 3 and 129, because it said (as an example) that's what it was removing and even gave the names of the individuals involved.

Lastly, there are the two sections for sources and repositories that look like the following:

0 @S172@ SOUR
 1 TITL Pennsylvania Marriages Prior to 1790
 1 AUTH John B. Linn and William H. Egle, Editors
 1 PUBL 1984; Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc. Baltimore, MD.
 1 REPO @REPO4@
   2 CALN ISBN: 0-8063-0709-9; LoC 75-37471
     3 MEDI Book

0 @REPO12@ REPO
 1 NAME Harford Memorial Gardens
 1 ADDR 300 Moore's Mill Rd
   2 CONT BEL AIR MD 21014
 1 PHON <a href="tel:410-838-6667" value="+14108386667">410-838-6667

I believe these are all generated to conform to the specs (as I understand them; those specs aren't always as clear as I would like). The automated indentation also helps me read the gedcom file more easily (again, being a Luddite and command line user, I tend to do lookups on the ged file as it is just faster and more convenient - my editor lets me use GREP and highlights the appropriate lines and so forth). I have a certain level of confidence in the assertion that the formatting is at least acceptable, if not correct, since the generated files load in the various programs I use (Why so many? Simply because different ones have different strengths and levels of flexibility in presentation and error/discrepancy checking.)

I know you were looking for something like "Program X," but hope this helps answer your question.

Any comments would certainly be appreciated. Thanks,

Frank
----------------------------
Frank Oberle
[hidden email]


---- Original message ----
>Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 14:55:50 +0200
>From: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>
>Subject: Re: [Gramps-bugs] Reading GED(com) Files
>To: [hidden email]
>Cc: [hidden email]
>
>   Is it not possible you imported the gedcom the
>   second time in the family tree you did the first
>   attempt for?
>
>   As the first import crashed on the empty lines, the
>   families of the people would never have been loaded,
>   and everybody would have incomplete families.
>   Your second import would duplicate people.
>
>   So, if this was the case, delete the family tree,
>   make a new one, and do the import in this empty
>   famtree
>
>   Benny
>
>   2012/8/22 Tim Lyons <[hidden email]>
>
>     We discussed what is probably the same question
>     here:
>     http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Why-does-check-py-remove-rather-than-fix-td4655799.html
>
>     The GEDCOM import has been improved in 3.4.0, and
>     it is possible that the
>     problem you encountered has been fixed.
>
>     I know it is annoying to be told to try the newer
>     version, because the
>     problem _may_ be fixed there, but in this case, I
>     think it would be
>     worthwhile. Anyway, if the problem is ever going
>     to be fixed, it will not
>     now be fixed in 3.3.x.
>
>     I am not sure why you found a duplication of the
>     first individual, but the
>     allocation of ID Numbers has also been improved,
>     so this problem may also
>     have gone away.
>
>     I too would be interested to know which tool was
>     used to export the GEDCOM.
>
>     Regards,
>     Tim.
>
>     --
>     View this message in context:
>     http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Reading-GED-com-Files-tp4656048p4656054.html
>     Sent from the gramps-bugs mailing list archive at
>     Nabble.com.
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     Live Security Virtual Conference
>     Exclusive live event will cover all the ways
>     today's security and
>     threat landscape has changed and how IT managers
>     can respond. Discussions
>     will include endpoint security, mobile security
>     and the latest in malware
>     threats.
>     http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>     _______________________________________________
>     Gramps-bugs mailing list
>     [hidden email]
>     https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-bugs


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Re: [Gramps-bugs] Reading GED(com) Files

Tim Lyons
Administrator
Frank,

Could you provide a test file that we could use to check what is going  
wrong? I appreciate that you described the way your file was  
constructed, but it did not have any of the linked data in it.

It would probably be best to send it direct to me (not to the list, as  
I appreciate that you would not want the data too widely distributed),  
because I was working on the GEDCOM import and correction of missing  
bits of the GEDCOM data.

Regards,
Tim (aka guy).


On 23 Aug 2012, at 16:43, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Benny:
>
> This is to follow up on my Gedcom import issue.
>
> I downloaded and installed Gramps 3.4.0-1 (didn't go well at first  
> as I was unaware that the old version needed to be removed first -  
> worked fine after I totally removed the original install).
>
> This time I had no repetition of the first person as both ID0 and  
> ID1, so I guess that was solved. The import error log was very, very  
> long and, among other things, contained many "tag recognized but not  
> supported" messages - towards the end, each and every one of the  
> family records was marked as ignored because they don't refer back  
> to the family (I can't figure out what that means).
>
> Most importantly, each and every person continues to show up as a  
> completely disconnected individual in the ancestors and descendants  
> views (I can't recall the terms Gramps uses for those). Strangely  
> enough, however, when I pick a person and choose Edit Person|
> Reference, the entire family is shown correctly, so Gramps obviously  
> figured out the contents of the ged file. I'm lost.
>
> Although I greatly appreciate the feedback, I really don't have the  
> patience to deal with this sort of thing any more, so I uninstalled  
> the program and will keep looking for another Linux-based solution.  
> So - no need to respond; I'll check back periodically as new  
> versions appear, but for now I'm officially giving up.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Frank
>
> ----------------------------
> Frank Oberle
> [hidden email]
>
>
> ---- Original message ----
>> Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 09:59:22 +0200
>> From: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [Gramps-bugs] Reading GED(com) Files
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Cc: [hidden email],[hidden email]
>>
>>  Frank,
>>
>>  Best keep posting to user list also, some gedcom
>>  experts there that can perhaps comment on your
>>  gedcom.
>>
>>  If you import a gedcom, and there are messages
>>  during the import, you will see in the bottom left
>>  corner of Gramps a small red icon appear. If you
>>  click it, you see all the warning messages Gramps
>>  generated during import.
>>
>>  Benny
>>
>>  2012/8/22 <[hidden email]>
>>
>>    Benny and Tim (Guy?)
>>
>>    Thanks for the responses. I'll try to download an
>>    update and rebuild the database, after which I'll
>>    report back (although this may take a few days as
>>    life is interfering again). Here is the original
>>    response I sent to Peter which should answer your
>>    questions about where the ged file originated:
>>
>>    Hi Peter:
>>
>>    I guess you've caught me red-handed... but thanks
>>    for responding.
>>
>>    I keep all of my raw data externally, since I like
>>    to edit it in what is, at least to me, a much more
>>    straightforward fashion than using a GUI (I'm an
>>    old, but efficient old fogey).
>>
>>    I then use a rather large set of what are
>>    essentially GREP macros to generate new
>>    replacement sections for the GEDCOM file. There is
>>    a header, of course, followed by the INDI section.
>>    After this comes a section containing notes,
>>    followed by the family definition section.
>>
>>    Individual records look like this, although
>>    obviously the level of detail varies widely:
>>
>>    0 @I2667@ INDI
>>     1 IDNO 2667
>>     1 NAME Kiziah /Gonce/
>>       2 SURN Gonce
>>       2 GIVN Kiziah
>>       2 _MARNM Rogers
>>       2 SOUR @S64@
>>         3 PAGE 34
>>         3 QUAY 2
>>     1 SEX F
>>     1 BIRT
>>       2 DATE 1822
>>       2 PLAC Hawkins County, TN
>>     1 DEAT
>>       2 DATE 1848
>>     1 REFN 2667
>>
>>    Family records look like the following:
>>
>>    0 @F5@ FAM
>>     1 HUSB @I3@
>>     1 WIFE @I129@
>>     1 MARR
>>       2 DATE 28 JUN 1943
>>       2 PLAC Blessed Sacrament Church; Baltimore MD
>>     1 CHIL @I133@
>>       2 _FREL Natural
>>       2 _MREL Natural
>>     1 CHIL @I136@
>>       2 _FREL Natural
>>       2 _MREL Natural
>>     1 CHIL @I138@
>>       2 _FREL Natural
>>       2 _MREL Natural
>>
>>    In this example, for instance, I suspect that the
>>    fact that there are no family lines within the
>>    INDI segments for IDs 3, 129, 133, 136 and 138
>>    must indicate that Gramps wanted those entries to
>>    be present. What confuses me is that the error
>>    output clearly showed that Gramps knew that 133,
>>    136 and 138 were children of 3 and 129, because it
>>    said (as an example) that's what it was removing
>>    and even gave the names of the individuals
>>    involved.
>>
>>    Lastly, there are the two sections for sources and
>>    repositories that look like the following:
>>
>>    0 @S172@ SOUR
>>     1 TITL Pennsylvania Marriages Prior to 1790
>>     1 AUTH John B. Linn and William H. Egle, Editors
>>     1 PUBL 1984; Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc.
>>    Baltimore, MD.
>>     1 REPO @REPO4@
>>       2 CALN ISBN: 0-8063-0709-9; LoC 75-37471
>>         3 MEDI Book
>>
>>    0 @REPO12@ REPO
>>     1 NAME Harford Memorial Gardens
>>     1 ADDR 300 Moore's Mill Rd
>>       2 CONT BEL AIR MD 21014
>>     1 PHON 410-838-6667
>>
>>    I believe these are all generated to conform to
>>    the specs (as I understand them; those specs
>>    aren't always as clear as I would like). The
>>    automated indentation also helps me read the
>>    gedcom file more easily (again, being a Luddite
>>    and command line user, I tend to do lookups on the
>>    ged file as it is just faster and more convenient
>>    - my editor lets me use GREP and highlights the
>>    appropriate lines and so forth). I have a certain
>>    level of confidence in the assertion that the
>>    formatting is at least acceptable, if not correct,
>>    since the generated files load in the various
>>    programs I use (Why so many? Simply because
>>    different ones have different strengths and levels
>>    of flexibility in presentation and
>>    error/discrepancy checking.)
>>
>>    I know you were looking for something like
>>    "Program X," but hope this helps answer your
>>    question.
>>
>>    Any comments would certainly be appreciated.
>>    Thanks,
>>
>>    Frank
>>    ----------------------------
>>    Frank Oberle
>>    [hidden email]
>>
>>    ---- Original message ----
>>> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 14:55:50 +0200
>>> From: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>
>>> Subject: Re: [Gramps-bugs] Reading GED(com) Files
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Cc: [hidden email]
>>>
>>>   Is it not possible you imported the gedcom
>>    the
>>>   second time in the family tree you did the
>>    first
>>>   attempt for?
>>>
>>>   As the first import crashed on the empty
>>    lines, the
>>>   families of the people would never have been
>>    loaded,
>>>   and everybody would have incomplete families.
>>>   Your second import would duplicate people.
>>>
>>>   So, if this was the case, delete the family
>>    tree,
>>>   make a new one, and do the import in this
>>    empty
>>>   famtree
>>>
>>>   Benny
>>>
>>>   2012/8/22 Tim Lyons <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>     We discussed what is probably the same
>>    question
>>>     here:
>>>
>>    http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Why-does-check-py-remove-rather-than-fix-td4655799.html
>>>
>>>     The GEDCOM import has been improved in
>>    3.4.0, and
>>>     it is possible that the
>>>     problem you encountered has been fixed.
>>>
>>>     I know it is annoying to be told to try
>>    the newer
>>>     version, because the
>>>     problem _may_ be fixed there, but in this
>>    case, I
>>>     think it would be
>>>     worthwhile. Anyway, if the problem is ever
>>    going
>>>     to be fixed, it will not
>>>     now be fixed in 3.3.x.
>>>
>>>     I am not sure why you found a duplication
>>    of the
>>>     first individual, but the
>>>     allocation of ID Numbers has also been
>>    improved,
>>>     so this problem may also
>>>     have gone away.
>>>
>>>     I too would be interested to know which
>>    tool was
>>>     used to export the GEDCOM.
>>>
>>>     Regards,
>>>     Tim.
>>>
>>>     --
>>>     View this message in context:
>>>
>>    http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Reading-GED-com-Files-tp4656048p4656054.html
>>>     Sent from the gramps-bugs mailing list
>>    archive at
>>>     Nabble.com.
>>>
>>    
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>     Live Security Virtual Conference
>>>     Exclusive live event will cover all the
>>    ways
>>>     today's security and
>>>     threat landscape has changed and how IT
>>    managers
>>>     can respond. Discussions
>>>     will include endpoint security, mobile
>>    security
>>>     and the latest in malware
>>>     threats.
>>>
>>    http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>>
>>    _______________________________________________
>>>     Gramps-bugs mailing list
>>>     [hidden email]
>>>
>>    https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-bugs


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
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Re: [Gramps-bugs] Reading GED(com) Files

Benny Malengier
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier


2012/8/23 <[hidden email]>
Benny:

This is to follow up on my Gedcom import issue.

I downloaded and installed Gramps 3.4.0-1 (didn't go well at first as I was unaware that the old version needed to be removed first - worked fine after I totally removed the original install).

This time I had no repetition of the first person as both ID0 and ID1, so I guess that was solved. The import error log was very, very long and, among other things, contained many "tag recognized but not supported" messages - towards the end, each and every one of the family records was marked as ignored because they don't refer back to the family (I can't figure out what that means).

Most importantly, each and every person continues to show up as a completely disconnected individual in the ancestors and descendants views (I can't recall the terms Gramps uses for those). Strangely enough, however, when I pick a person and choose Edit Person|Reference, the entire family is shown correctly, so Gramps obviously figured out the contents of the ged file. I'm lost.


This is actually logical. The person entries are parsed, and links to families added that are not yet added to the family tree. When the families are parsed, they are ignored so never officially made. The links to families are what we call hanging references, and the check and repair tool will recognize them, and delete them (which you did the first time you imported).

Gramps follows the standard GEDCOM rather rigidly. If you privately provide tim with your gedcom, he is the correct person to adapt the gedcom importer to uncommon uses.

Benny
 
Although I greatly appreciate the feedback, I really don't have the patience to deal with this sort of thing any more, so I uninstalled the program and will keep looking for another Linux-based solution. So - no need to respond; I'll check back periodically as new versions appear, but for now I'm officially giving up.

Thanks again,

Frank

----------------------------
Frank Oberle
[hidden email]


---- Original message ----
>Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 09:59:22 +0200
>From: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>
>Subject: Re: [Gramps-bugs] Reading GED(com) Files
>To: [hidden email]
>Cc: [hidden email],[hidden email]
>
>   Frank,
>
>   Best keep posting to user list also, some gedcom
>   experts there that can perhaps comment on your
>   gedcom.
>
>   If you import a gedcom, and there are messages
>   during the import, you will see in the bottom left
>   corner of Gramps a small red icon appear. If you
>   click it, you see all the warning messages Gramps
>   generated during import.
>
>   Benny
>
>   2012/8/22 <[hidden email]>
>
>     Benny and Tim (Guy?)
>
>     Thanks for the responses. I'll try to download an
>     update and rebuild the database, after which I'll
>     report back (although this may take a few days as
>     life is interfering again). Here is the original
>     response I sent to Peter which should answer your
>     questions about where the ged file originated:
>
>     Hi Peter:
>
>     I guess you've caught me red-handed... but thanks
>     for responding.
>
>     I keep all of my raw data externally, since I like
>     to edit it in what is, at least to me, a much more
>     straightforward fashion than using a GUI (I'm an
>     old, but efficient old fogey).
>
>     I then use a rather large set of what are
>     essentially GREP macros to generate new
>     replacement sections for the GEDCOM file. There is
>     a header, of course, followed by the INDI section.
>     After this comes a section containing notes,
>     followed by the family definition section.
>
>     Individual records look like this, although
>     obviously the level of detail varies widely:
>
>     0 @I2667@ INDI
>      1 IDNO 2667
>      1 NAME Kiziah /Gonce/
>        2 SURN Gonce
>        2 GIVN Kiziah
>        2 _MARNM Rogers
>        2 SOUR @S64@
>          3 PAGE 34
>          3 QUAY 2
>      1 SEX F
>      1 BIRT
>        2 DATE 1822
>        2 PLAC Hawkins County, TN
>      1 DEAT
>        2 DATE 1848
>      1 REFN 2667
>
>     Family records look like the following:
>
>     0 @F5@ FAM
>      1 HUSB @I3@
>      1 WIFE @I129@
>      1 MARR
>        2 DATE 28 JUN 1943
>        2 PLAC Blessed Sacrament Church; Baltimore MD
>      1 CHIL @I133@
>        2 _FREL Natural
>        2 _MREL Natural
>      1 CHIL @I136@
>        2 _FREL Natural
>        2 _MREL Natural
>      1 CHIL @I138@
>        2 _FREL Natural
>        2 _MREL Natural
>
>     In this example, for instance, I suspect that the
>     fact that there are no family lines within the
>     INDI segments for IDs 3, 129, 133, 136 and 138
>     must indicate that Gramps wanted those entries to
>     be present. What confuses me is that the error
>     output clearly showed that Gramps knew that 133,
>     136 and 138 were children of 3 and 129, because it
>     said (as an example) that's what it was removing
>     and even gave the names of the individuals
>     involved.
>
>     Lastly, there are the two sections for sources and
>     repositories that look like the following:
>
>     0 @S172@ SOUR
>      1 TITL Pennsylvania Marriages Prior to 1790
>      1 AUTH John B. Linn and William H. Egle, Editors
>      1 PUBL 1984; Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc.
>     Baltimore, MD.
>      1 REPO @REPO4@
>        2 CALN ISBN: 0-8063-0709-9; LoC 75-37471
>          3 MEDI Book
>
>     0 @REPO12@ REPO
>      1 NAME Harford Memorial Gardens
>      1 ADDR 300 Moore's Mill Rd
>        2 CONT BEL AIR MD 21014
>      1 PHON <a href="tel:410-838-6667" value="+14108386667">410-838-6667
>
>     I believe these are all generated to conform to
>     the specs (as I understand them; those specs
>     aren't always as clear as I would like). The
>     automated indentation also helps me read the
>     gedcom file more easily (again, being a Luddite
>     and command line user, I tend to do lookups on the
>     ged file as it is just faster and more convenient
>     - my editor lets me use GREP and highlights the
>     appropriate lines and so forth). I have a certain
>     level of confidence in the assertion that the
>     formatting is at least acceptable, if not correct,
>     since the generated files load in the various
>     programs I use (Why so many? Simply because
>     different ones have different strengths and levels
>     of flexibility in presentation and
>     error/discrepancy checking.)
>
>     I know you were looking for something like
>     "Program X," but hope this helps answer your
>     question.
>
>     Any comments would certainly be appreciated.
>     Thanks,
>
>     Frank
>     ----------------------------
>     Frank Oberle
>     [hidden email]
>
>     ---- Original message ----
>     >Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 14:55:50 +0200
>     >From: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>
>     >Subject: Re: [Gramps-bugs] Reading GED(com) Files
>     >To: [hidden email]
>     >Cc: [hidden email]
>     >
>     >   Is it not possible you imported the gedcom
>     the
>     >   second time in the family tree you did the
>     first
>     >   attempt for?
>     >
>     >   As the first import crashed on the empty
>     lines, the
>     >   families of the people would never have been
>     loaded,
>     >   and everybody would have incomplete families.
>     >   Your second import would duplicate people.
>     >
>     >   So, if this was the case, delete the family
>     tree,
>     >   make a new one, and do the import in this
>     empty
>     >   famtree
>     >
>     >   Benny
>     >
>     >   2012/8/22 Tim Lyons <[hidden email]>
>     >
>     >     We discussed what is probably the same
>     question
>     >     here:
>     >    
>     http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Why-does-check-py-remove-rather-than-fix-td4655799.html
>     >
>     >     The GEDCOM import has been improved in
>     3.4.0, and
>     >     it is possible that the
>     >     problem you encountered has been fixed.
>     >
>     >     I know it is annoying to be told to try
>     the newer
>     >     version, because the
>     >     problem _may_ be fixed there, but in this
>     case, I
>     >     think it would be
>     >     worthwhile. Anyway, if the problem is ever
>     going
>     >     to be fixed, it will not
>     >     now be fixed in 3.3.x.
>     >
>     >     I am not sure why you found a duplication
>     of the
>     >     first individual, but the
>     >     allocation of ID Numbers has also been
>     improved,
>     >     so this problem may also
>     >     have gone away.
>     >
>     >     I too would be interested to know which
>     tool was
>     >     used to export the GEDCOM.
>     >
>     >     Regards,
>     >     Tim.
>     >
>     >     --
>     >     View this message in context:
>     >    
>     http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/Reading-GED-com-Files-tp4656048p4656054.html
>     >     Sent from the gramps-bugs mailing list
>     archive at
>     >     Nabble.com.
>     >    
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