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Re: Gramps database

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David O. Rowell

Re: Gramps database

Personally, I think that any update that makes the "old" database
unassessable should be accompanied by a utility that will convert it to
the new format. Further it shouldn't trash the old file but rather
make an updated copy. If I recall that's what PAF did many years ago.

PAF is a rather simple but elegant program that is still in wide use
even tho it hasn't been updated for years. It runs well on Wine and is
as much program as many of us need. All of the developers should be
familiar with PAF 5.

David Rowell

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Kevin Wright-5

Re: Gramps database

PAF is also (in my opinion) much faster for basic entry of people into
a tree--fewer windows and tabs to deal with. Once a tree is built in
PAF, importing into Gramps then allows the user the fine
detail/control of linking people/sources/media.

Kevin

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 1:01 PM, David O. Rowell <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Personally, I think that any update that makes the "old" database
> unassessable should be accompanied by a utility that will convert it to
> the new format. Further it shouldn't trash the old file but rather
> make an updated copy. If I recall that's what PAF did many years ago.
>
> PAF is a rather simple but elegant program that is still in wide use
> even tho it hasn't been updated for years. It runs well on Wine and is
> as much program as many of us need. All of the developers should be
> familiar with PAF 5.
>
> David Rowell
>
> --
> "Osama is dead and GM is alive - that has a nice ring to it!"
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users

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Kevin Wright

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Martin Steer-2

Re: Gramps database

In reply to this post by David O. Rowell

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 02:01:08PM -0400, David O. Rowell wrote:
>Personally, I think that any update that makes the "old" database
>unassessable should be accompanied by a utility that will convert it to
>the new format.

I don't understand this. Isn't Gramps itself such a utility?

>Further it shouldn't trash the old file but rather make an updated
>copy. If I recall that's what PAF did many years ago.

I've used Gramps for about five years, without any serious problems, on
a rolling-release linux distro... everything is continuously updated!

M.

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DS Blank

Re: Gramps database

In reply to this post by David O. Rowell

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 2:01 PM, David O. Rowell <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Personally, I think that any update that makes the "old" database
> unassessable should be accompanied by a utility that will convert it to
> the new format.

A related problem is that the database has a couple of layers that we
do not control. At any time, the low-level C layer might have an
update, or the Python-wrapper layer might change. If it does, and you
don't have a backup, then you (might) have a problem.

> Further it shouldn't trash the old file but rather
> make an updated copy. If I recall that's what PAF did many years ago.

That is a good idea: when Gramps "upgrades" a database it should make
a copy of the db folder, upgrade *that*, and rename the tree
(appending something like "(upgraded to version 16 on 2012/09/11)" to
the name).

You should make a Feature Request for this.

-Doug

> PAF is a rather simple but elegant program that is still in wide use
> even tho it hasn't been updated for years. It runs well on Wine and is
> as much program as many of us need. All of the developers should be
> familiar with PAF 5.
>
> David Rowell
>
> --
> "Osama is dead and GM is alive - that has a nice ring to it!"
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users

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Benny Malengier

Re: Gramps database

2012/9/11 Doug Blank <[hidden email]>

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 2:01 PM, David O. Rowell <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Personally, I think that any update that makes the "old" database
> unassessable should be accompanied by a utility that will convert it to
> the new format.

A related problem is that the database has a couple of layers that we
do not control. At any time, the low-level C layer might have an
update, or the Python-wrapper layer might change. If it does, and you
don't have a backup, then you (might) have a problem.

> Further it shouldn't trash the old file but rather
> make an updated copy. If I recall that's what PAF did many years ago.

That is a good idea: when Gramps "upgrades" a database it should make
a copy of the db folder, upgrade *that*, and rename the tree
(appending something like "(upgraded to version 16 on 2012/09/11)" to
the name).

As you say, this is an upgrade of Gramps layer, but that is not the problem here as that is what we test, the underlying C-levels changing are the problems. We could store the versions used to open the db last, and if those changed (even if no upgrade needed), make a copy for safety, before opening it. That is a bit paranoid however... . Oracle, who makes the database we use, does guarantee older versions can be opened with newer, at least, last I checked.

Benny

David O. Rowell

Re: Gramps database

In reply to this post by David O. Rowell

Apologies - every problem is simpler when you're working from
ignorance! My last adventure into databases was (gasp!) in the '70's -
things were simpler then ;-)

To back away from the nitty gritty, the data contained in the database
file is the result of way too much hard work to risk any reasonable risk
of loss. If all versions of the DB aren't somehow reasonably
accessible then that work is pretty much for naught. It scares me to
hear that Oracle has anything to do with my genealogy data!

PAF and Ancestral Quest (PAF's grandfather) suggest periodic back-up at
an user selected interval. PAF back-up is just a zip file. Perhaps
that's a useful feature? "automatic" generation of an XML?

David Rowell

--
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Benny Malengier

Re: Gramps database

2012/9/11 David O. Rowell <[hidden email]>

Apologies - every problem is simpler when you're working from
ignorance! My last adventure into databases was (gasp!) in the '70's -
things were simpler then ;-)

To back away from the nitty gritty, the data contained in the database
file is the result of way too much hard work to risk any reasonable risk
of loss. If all versions of the DB aren't somehow reasonably
accessible then that work is pretty much for naught. It scares me to
hear that Oracle has anything to do with my genealogy data!

They bought sleepycat, which created the free database we use. It is still free, but an oracle product: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/products/berkeleydb/overview/index.html
Oracle buys a lot of stuff, it's hard to stay out of their clutches :-)

Benny

PAF and Ancestral Quest (PAF's grandfather) suggest periodic back-up at
an user selected interval. PAF back-up is just a zip file. Perhaps
that's a useful feature? "automatic" generation of an XML?

David Rowell

--
"Osama is dead and GM is alive - that has a nice ring to it!"

Ron Johnson

Re: Gramps database

In reply to this post by David O. Rowell

On 09/11/2012 07:10 AM, David O. Rowell wrote:
[snip]
> PAF and Ancestral Quest (PAF's grandfather) suggest periodic back-up at
> an user selected interval. PAF back-up is just a zip file. Perhaps
> that's a useful feature? "automatic" generation of an XML?
>

Genealogical databases can be much bigger than "Office" documents.
Thus, having Gramps determine when to automatically produce a backup
would be arbitrary and probably unsatisfactory.

However... they have features in place to let you create your own
automatic backups:
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=29787362

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are not allowed to buy, then those people are not competent
to choose (i.e. vote for) their own leaders.

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