Re: How to display a pedigree chart with the step-paternal line(s) rather than the biological-paternal line(s).

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Re: How to display a pedigree chart with the step-paternal line(s) rather than the biological-paternal line(s).

Dave Scheipers
Hi John,

Was cleaning out my inbox and saw no one had any ideas. It may have
something to do with how, or maybe more importantly, how step children
are not handled.

By your request, I am assuming you add step-children into the family
of the bio-parent's new family. Gramps allows this and even lets you
set the relationship type. I do not do this. I just keep these
children as children of the earlier family and I assume most do the
same.

That said, I did some testing on children with more than one set of
parents. These are children that have been adopted. When looking at
which path the Pedigree view showed, it showed the parent path that
was primary. ie, when setting the order of parents, pedigree view
follows the parent ancestors for the parents first in the order list.
The normal inclination is to place the parent families in the order
that they first occurred. To follow the step-father's, or in my
example the adoptive-father's, ancestry, the family with the adoptive
or step-father should be placed before the biological father's family
record.

Do not know if this helps. I hope I explained it properly.

FYI: I only looked at what happens in the Pedigree view. Did not check
what happens in the various pedigree reports.

On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 12:52 PM, John W. Kitz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> All,
>
> The following may not have been distributed by the mail list software, so
> I'm resending just to be sure...
>
> When I step forward in time in the Charts -> Pedigree view and encounter a
> stepchild Gramps, as far as I'm concerned inadvertently, jumps to the
> (biological) paternal line of those children that are a stepchild to the
> last father of the paternal line that is being advanced through.
>
> I consider it useful to be able to display a pedigree chart along the
> step-paternal line(s) rather than the biological-paternal line(s).
>
> Is there any way to do so?
>
> Regards, Jk.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> [hidden email]
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> https://gramps-project.org

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Re: How to display a pedigree chart with the step-paternal line(s) rather than the biological-paternal line(s).

John W. Kitz-3
Hi Dave,

Thanks for taking the time to look into this.

On 2018-03-07 18:35, Dave Scheipers wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> Was cleaning out my inbox and saw no one had any ideas. It may have
> something to do with how, or maybe more importantly, how step children
> are not handled.
>
> By your request, I am assuming you add step-children into the family
> of the bio-parent's new family.

The example that prompted me to send my question to the list is this:

Family 1 consisting of wife A, husband B and their biological children;
Family 2 consisting of wife A, husband C, the biological children of
families 1 & 2.

I.e. the biological children of the first marriage of wife A, or of
family 1, become stepchildren to husband C in family 2. In addition
there are the biological children of wife A and husband C of family 2.

> Gramps allows this and even lets you
> set the relationship type. I do not do this. I just keep these
> children as children of the earlier family and I assume most do the
> same.

I attached all children to the families concerned per my remarks above.

> That said, I did some testing on children with more than one set of
> parents. These are children that have been adopted. When looking at
> which path the Pedigree view showed, it showed the parent path that
> was primary. ie, when setting the order of parents, pedigree view
> follows the parent ancestors for the parents first in the order list.

As it relates to my question I would expect it doesn't or shouldn't make
any difference if the relationship between a parent and a child is of
the type 'adopted' or 'step' when moving either for- or backward through
the pedigree view (as mentioned in my initial email).

> The normal inclination is to place the parent families in the order
> that they first occurred.

Up to now I placed marriages in chronological order and (for IMHO
obvious reasons) would prefer to keep it that way.

> To follow the step-father's, or in my
> example the adoptive-father's, ancestry, the family with the adoptive
> or step-father should be placed before the biological father's family
> record.

I (think I) understand what you mean, but unless there is some
difference between your and my Gramps version/installation that I'm not
aware of changing the order of the marriages doesn't seem to have any
effect, or at least none that I was able to notice, on the paternal line
that is being followed when progressing trough it for the families
concerned.

>
> Do not know if this helps.
>

Unfortunately it looks like it doesn't.

>
> I hope I explained it properly.
>

Likewise.

> FYI: I only looked at what happens in the Pedigree view. Did not check
> what happens in the various pedigree reports.

So far I have only checked the CIR's for the (adult) individuals whom it
concerns and those look as I expected them to. Haven't checked any of
the other reports though.

>
> On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 12:52 PM, John W. Kitz wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> The following may not have been distributed by the mail list software,
>> so
>> I'm resending just to be sure...
>>
>> When I step forward in time in the Charts -> Pedigree view and
>> encounter a
>> stepchild Gramps, as far as I'm concerned inadvertently, jumps to the
>> (biological) paternal line of those children that are a stepchild to
>> the
>> last father of the paternal line that is being advanced through.
>>
>> I consider it useful to be able to display a pedigree chart along the
>> step-paternal line(s) rather than the biological-paternal line(s).
>>
>> Is there any way to do so?

Regards, Jk.

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Re: How to display a pedigree chart with the step-paternal line(s) rather than the biological-paternal line(s).

Dave Scheipers
Hi John

It is not the 'marriages' that affect the Pedigree view, it is the
parents' families.

Make one of the 'step-children' the active person. They are a child in
two families. Using the same tool to change the order of marriages
(the down arrow with four squares) there will be at the top an option
to set which of the "Parent Relationships" gets the top slot.
Whichever parent family is in the top slot Pedigree view will follow
their ancestors.

Because the natural tendency is to have these families sorted with
birth family first (Family 1), Pedigree view follows that path. But if
you want to see the step-parent's ancestry (Family 2), you will have
to make that family primary.

But as you also said, for obvious reasons having marriage and family
orders actually reflect the history of the people involved is
preferred. You'll just have to decide which is more important. For me,
that would be the birth family taking the top slot. And after all,
ancestors through that family are the step child's true family That
you actively include them as members of the step family does more
accurately show that relationship.

For many, step-children are not part of the non-birth parent's
ancestry or a descendant. So for many, your request probably seemed
odd. For even some people, genealogy is just for the biological so do
not even include adopted children.

And just for the record, I am using 4.2.8 for windows.

Good luck, Dave

On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 4:28 PM, John W. Kitz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Dave,
>
> Thanks for taking the time to look into this.
>
> On 2018-03-07 18:35, Dave Scheipers wrote:
>>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> Was cleaning out my inbox and saw no one had any ideas. It may have
>> something to do with how, or maybe more importantly, how step children
>> are not handled.
>>
>> By your request, I am assuming you add step-children into the family
>> of the bio-parent's new family.
>
>
> The example that prompted me to send my question to the list is this:
>
> Family 1 consisting of wife A, husband B and their biological children;
> Family 2 consisting of wife A, husband C, the biological children of
> families 1 & 2.
>
> I.e. the biological children of the first marriage of wife A, or of family
> 1, become stepchildren to husband C in family 2. In addition there are the
> biological children of wife A and husband C of family 2.
>
>> Gramps allows this and even lets you
>> set the relationship type. I do not do this. I just keep these
>> children as children of the earlier family and I assume most do the
>> same.
>
>
> I attached all children to the families concerned per my remarks above.
>
>> That said, I did some testing on children with more than one set of
>> parents. These are children that have been adopted. When looking at
>> which path the Pedigree view showed, it showed the parent path that
>> was primary. ie, when setting the order of parents, pedigree view
>> follows the parent ancestors for the parents first in the order list.
>
>
> As it relates to my question I would expect it doesn't or shouldn't make any
> difference if the relationship between a parent and a child is of the type
> 'adopted' or 'step' when moving either for- or backward through the pedigree
> view (as mentioned in my initial email).
>
>> The normal inclination is to place the parent families in the order
>> that they first occurred.
>
>
> Up to now I placed marriages in chronological order and (for IMHO obvious
> reasons) would prefer to keep it that way.
>
>> To follow the step-father's, or in my
>> example the adoptive-father's, ancestry, the family with the adoptive
>> or step-father should be placed before the biological father's family
>> record.
>
>
> I (think I) understand what you mean, but unless there is some difference
> between your and my Gramps version/installation that I'm not aware of
> changing the order of the marriages doesn't seem to have any effect, or at
> least none that I was able to notice, on the paternal line that is being
> followed when progressing trough it for the families concerned.
>
>>
>> Do not know if this helps.
>>
>
> Unfortunately it looks like it doesn't.
>
>>
>> I hope I explained it properly.
>>
>
> Likewise.
>
>> FYI: I only looked at what happens in the Pedigree view. Did not check
>> what happens in the various pedigree reports.
>
>
> So far I have only checked the CIR's for the (adult) individuals whom it
> concerns and those look as I expected them to. Haven't checked any of the
> other reports though.
>
>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 12:52 PM, John W. Kitz wrote:
>>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> The following may not have been distributed by the mail list software, so
>>> I'm resending just to be sure...
>>>
>>> When I step forward in time in the Charts -> Pedigree view and encounter
>>> a
>>> stepchild Gramps, as far as I'm concerned inadvertently, jumps to the
>>> (biological) paternal line of those children that are a stepchild to the
>>> last father of the paternal line that is being advanced through.
>>>
>>> I consider it useful to be able to display a pedigree chart along the
>>> step-paternal line(s) rather than the biological-paternal line(s).
>>>
>>> Is there any way to do so?
>
>
> Regards, Jk.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> https://gramps-project.org

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Re: How to display a pedigree chart with the step-paternal line(s) rather than the biological-paternal line(s).

John W. Kitz-3
Hi Dave,

On 2018-03-07 23:24, Dave Scheipers wrote:

> Hi John
>
> It is not the 'marriages' that affect the Pedigree view, it is the
> parents' families.
>
> Make one of the 'step-children' the active person. They are a child in
> two families. Using the same tool to change the order of marriages
> (the down arrow with four squares) there will be at the top an option
> to set which of the "Parent Relationships" gets the top slot.
>
> Whichever parent family is in the top slot Pedigree view will follow
> their ancestors.
>
> Because the natural tendency is to have these families sorted with
> birth family first (Family 1), Pedigree view follows that path. But if
> you want to see the step-parent's ancestry (Family 2), you will have
> to make that family primary.

I've gone through the various Gramps menus to see how I can accomplish
what you are suggesting, but so far to no avail. I'd appreciate you
being (even) more specific as to how to accomplish what you suggest. In
fact having looked at it for a while I doubt whether it is even
possible, but, in this case, I'd welcome guidance to the contrary.

> But as you also said, for obvious reasons having marriage and family
> orders actually reflect the history of the people involved is
> preferred. You'll just have to decide which is more important.

In general I prefer to list births, marriages, etc., chronologically,
but when entering the data I've come across situations in which I would
like to be able to (using the left and right arrows on the left and
right sides of the screen in that view) step through the Pedigree view
following either the biological or the non-biological, i.e. adopted or
stepchild, path.

> For me,
> that would be the birth family taking the top slot. And after all,
> ancestors through that family are the step child's true family That
> you actively include them as members of the step family does more
> accurately show that relationship.
>
> For many, step-children are not part of the non-birth parent's
> ancestry or a descendant.

IMHO that depends on whether one takes the biological or the legal
approach to parenthood when entering life events, such as births, in
Gramps.

> So for many, your request probably seemed
> odd. For even some people, genealogy is just for the biological so do
> not even include adopted children.

As stated, while, at this time, my need to step through the Pedigree
view following either the biological or the non-biological path pertains
to stepchildren only, but it would equally apply to adopted children.

> And just for the record, I am using 4.2.8 for windows.
>
> Good luck, Dave
>

Regards, Jk.

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Re: How to display a pedigree chart with the step-paternal line(s) rather than the biological-paternal line(s).

John W. Kitz-3
Dave,

Thanks for your additional assistance with this off-list.

Much appreciated, regards, Jk.

> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 6:28 PM, John W. Kitz wrote:
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> On 2018-03-07 23:24, Dave Scheipers wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi John
>>>
>>> It is not the 'marriages' that affect the Pedigree view, it is the
>>> parents' families.
>>>
>>> Make one of the 'step-children' the active person. They are a child
>>> in
>>> two families. Using the same tool to change the order of marriages
>>> (the down arrow with four squares) there will be at the top an option
>>> to set which of the "Parent Relationships" gets the top slot.
>>>
>>> Whichever parent family is in the top slot Pedigree view will follow
>>> their ancestors.
>>>
>>> Because the natural tendency is to have these families sorted with
>>> birth family first (Family 1), Pedigree view follows that path. But
>>> if
>>> you want to see the step-parent's ancestry (Family 2), you will have
>>> to make that family primary.
>>
>>
>> I've gone through the various Gramps menus to see how I can accomplish
>> what
>> you are suggesting, but so far to no avail. I'd appreciate you being
>> (even)
>> more specific as to how to accomplish what you suggest. In fact having
>> looked at it for a while I doubt whether it is even possible, but, in
>> this
>> case, I'd welcome guidance to the contrary.
>>
>>> But as you also said, for obvious reasons having marriage and family
>>> orders actually reflect the history of the people involved is
>>> preferred. You'll just have to decide which is more important.
>>
>>
>> In general I prefer to list births, marriages, etc., chronologically,
>> but
>> when entering the data I've come across situations in which I would
>> like to
>> be able to (using the left and right arrows on the left and right
>> sides of
>> the screen in that view) step through the Pedigree view following
>> either the
>> biological or the non-biological, i.e. adopted or stepchild, path.
>>
>>> For me,
>>> that would be the birth family taking the top slot. And after all,
>>> ancestors through that family are the step child's true family That
>>> you actively include them as members of the step family does more
>>> accurately show that relationship.
>>>
>>> For many, step-children are not part of the non-birth parent's
>>> ancestry or a descendant.
>>
>>
>> IMHO that depends on whether one takes the biological or the legal
>> approach
>> to parenthood when entering life events, such as births, in Gramps.
>>
>>> So for many, your request probably seemed
>>> odd. For even some people, genealogy is just for the biological so do
>>> not even include adopted children.
>>
>>
>> As stated, while, at this time, my need to step through the Pedigree
>> view
>> following either the biological or the non-biological path pertains to
>> stepchildren only, but it would equally apply to adopted children.
>>
>>> And just for the record, I am using 4.2.8 for windows.
>>>
>>> Good luck, Dave
>>>
>>
>> Regards, Jk.

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