Re: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

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Re: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

Benny Malengier


2011/6/12 Stéphane Charette <[hidden email]>
In summary from different e-mails on the topic:

> * Geography view is no longer based on a browser (mozilla or webkit).
> Instead, it is based on the excellent osm-gps-map, which has offline
> tile storage, making this view partially functional too when off-line.
> Packagers, this means the browser dependency should be removed
> (optional only for the htmlview). (http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_025:_Geography)
>

[...]

> Because of the two above additions, pyexiv2-0.1.3 or above has been
> added as a necessary dependency of Gramps...
> In optional dependencies, ImageMagick and jhead are also listed or
> changed...

*************** PLEASE REVIEW THE FOLLOWING ***************

I'm making this change in gramps33 and in trunk.  Please review the following description to ensure I've understood correctly:

I've removed from Debian/control the following dependencies:

- python-webkit
- python-gtkmozembed

Also remove: python-enchant


I've added the following to the required "Depends" section:

- python-pyexiv2

I've added the following to the optional "Recommends" section:

- python-osmgpsmap
- ImageMagick
- jhead

If not too much problem, make python-osmgpsmap 'depends'. Gramps works without it, but we really want people installing gramps for Debian to have the geography view out of the box.
I don't know what jhead is for... Perhaps somebody else knows?

Benny
 

Let me know if I've missed something, or if we need to bump certain packages between "Depends", "Recommends", and "Suggests".

Stéphane


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Re: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

Nick Hall-6


On 12/06/11 12:13, Benny Malengier wrote:


2011/6/12 Stéphane Charette <[hidden email]>
In summary from different e-mails on the topic:

> * Geography view is no longer based on a browser (mozilla or webkit).
> Instead, it is based on the excellent osm-gps-map, which has offline
> tile storage, making this view partially functional too when off-line.
> Packagers, this means the browser dependency should be removed
> (optional only for the htmlview). (http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_025:_Geography)
>

[...]

> Because of the two above additions, pyexiv2-0.1.3 or above has been
> added as a necessary dependency of Gramps...
> In optional dependencies, ImageMagick and jhead are also listed or
> changed...

*************** PLEASE REVIEW THE FOLLOWING ***************

I'm making this change in gramps33 and in trunk.  Please review the following description to ensure I've understood correctly:

I've removed from Debian/control the following dependencies:

- python-webkit
- python-gtkmozembed

Also remove: python-enchant


I've added the following to the required "Depends" section:

- python-pyexiv2

I've added the following to the optional "Recommends" section:

- python-osmgpsmap
- ImageMagick
- jhead

If not too much problem, make python-osmgpsmap 'depends'. Gramps works without it, but we really want people installing gramps for Debian to have the geography view out of the box.
I don't know what jhead is for... Perhaps somebody else knows?

It is another Exif editor that is optionally used in the Edit Image Metadata tool.

Nick.



Benny
 

Let me know if I've missed something, or if we need to bump certain packages between "Depends", "Recommends", and "Suggests".

Stéphane

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Re: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

John Ralls-2

On Jun 12, 2011, at 7:19 AM, Nick Hall wrote:



On 12/06/11 12:13, Benny Malengier wrote:


2011/6/12 Stéphane Charette <[hidden email]>
In summary from different e-mails on the topic:

> * Geography view is no longer based on a browser (mozilla or webkit).
> Instead, it is based on the excellent osm-gps-map, which has offline
> tile storage, making this view partially functional too when off-line.
> Packagers, this means the browser dependency should be removed
> (optional only for the htmlview). (http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_025:_Geography)
>

[...]

> Because of the two above additions, pyexiv2-0.1.3 or above has been
> added as a necessary dependency of Gramps...
> In optional dependencies, ImageMagick and jhead are also listed or
> changed...

*************** PLEASE REVIEW THE FOLLOWING ***************

I'm making this change in gramps33 and in trunk.  Please review the following description to ensure I've understood correctly:

I've removed from Debian/control the following dependencies:

- python-webkit
- python-gtkmozembed

Also remove: python-enchant


I've added the following to the required "Depends" section:

- python-pyexiv2

I've added the following to the optional "Recommends" section:

- python-osmgpsmap
- ImageMagick
- jhead

If not too much problem, make python-osmgpsmap 'depends'. Gramps works without it, but we really want people installing gramps for Debian to have the geography view out of the box.
I don't know what jhead is for... Perhaps somebody else knows?

It is another Exif editor that is optionally used in the Edit Image Metadata tool.

What about Image Magick? I understand that for Linux one can just pull in the whole application, but that's not going to work with an OSX bundle (though it will with MacPorts or Fink). What libraries and binding files do I need to pull in to the Gramps bundle to add what Gramps wants?

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

Stéphane Charette-2
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier
I'm making this change in gramps33 and in trunk.  Please review the following description to ensure I've understood correctly:

I've removed from Debian/control the following dependencies:

- python-webkit
- python-gtkmozembed

Also remove: python-enchant

Done.  (But package not rebuilt yet -- see my comments below.)
 
I've added the following to the required "Depends" section:

- python-pyexiv2

I've added the following to the optional "Recommends" section:

- python-osmgpsmap
- ImageMagick
- jhead

If not too much problem, make python-osmgpsmap 'depends'. Gramps works without it, but we really want people installing gramps for Debian to have the geography view out of the box.
I don't know what jhead is for... Perhaps somebody else knows?

jhead is exif stuff.  I'm guessing related to the NarWeb changes that were made.

Here is the thing:  after I installed the .deb on my new 11.04 installation, none of the recommended packages were installed.  Not graphviz, not imagemagick, not osmgpsmap.  It is unfortunate that "Ubuntu Software Centre" -- the new default handler for .deb files seems to ignore the 'Recommends' and 'Suggests' fields.

I'd like to move all of the 'Recommends' to 'Depends', so graphviz reports, geography view, and NarWeb all work out-of-the-box.  Is that OK with everyone?  I'd then issue a 3.0.0-2 .deb package.

Stéphane

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Re: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

Stéphane Charette-2
In reply to this post by John Ralls-2
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 08:14, John Ralls <[hidden email]> wrote:

What about Image Magick? I understand that for Linux one can just pull in the whole application, but that's not going to work with an OSX bundle (though it will with MacPorts or Fink). What libraries and binding files do I need to pull in to the Gramps bundle to add what Gramps wants?

I also see there is a package called "python-pythonmagick".  But instead we're directly calling ImageMagick?  Would it make it easier on other operating systems if we instead stuck to services with python bindings when available?

At the very least, it seems to me it would make it seem more "self-contained" to have a python app call a python API.

Stéphane

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Re: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

Nick Hall-6


On 12/06/11 16:58, Stéphane Charette wrote:
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 08:14, John Ralls <[hidden email]> wrote:

What about Image Magick? I understand that for Linux one can just pull in the whole application, but that's not going to work with an OSX bundle (though it will with MacPorts or Fink). What libraries and binding files do I need to pull in to the Gramps bundle to add what Gramps wants?

I also see there is a package called "python-pythonmagick".  But instead we're directly calling ImageMagick?  Would it make it easier on other operating systems if we instead stuck to services with python bindings when available?

The Edit Image Metadata gramplet uses the convert executable in ImageMagick and the jhead executable in the jhead package.

It uses convert to convert images into jpeg format and to remove exif tags from images.  If it is not present, the convert functionality will not be available and the delete functionality will use the pyexiv2 library instead.

Rob should be able to tell us why he chose not to use python-pythonmagick or another python library such as PIL for image conversion.

I'm not sure why we can't just use pyexiv2 to remove tags.  At the moment the ImageMagick convert is used if available.  In addition jhead is called, if available, to remove all non-image related sections from the jpeg.   Again, Rob should be able to clarify this.


Nick.



At the very least, it seems to me it would make it seem more "self-contained" to have a python app call a python API.

Stéphane

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Re: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

Nick Hall-6
In reply to this post by Stéphane Charette-2


On 12/06/11 16:50, Stéphane Charette wrote:
I'm making this change in gramps33 and in trunk.  Please review the following description to ensure I've understood correctly:

I've removed from Debian/control the following dependencies:

- python-webkit
- python-gtkmozembed

Also remove: python-enchant

Done.  (But package not rebuilt yet -- see my comments below.)
 
I've added the following to the required "Depends" section:

- python-pyexiv2

I've added the following to the optional "Recommends" section:

- python-osmgpsmap
- ImageMagick
- jhead

If not too much problem, make python-osmgpsmap 'depends'. Gramps works without it, but we really want people installing gramps for Debian to have the geography view out of the box.
I don't know what jhead is for... Perhaps somebody else knows?

jhead is exif stuff.  I'm guessing related to the NarWeb changes that were made.

Here is the thing:  after I installed the .deb on my new 11.04 installation, none of the recommended packages were installed.  Not graphviz, not imagemagick, not osmgpsmap.  It is unfortunate that "Ubuntu Software Centre" -- the new default handler for .deb files seems to ignore the 'Recommends' and 'Suggests' fields.

I'd like to move all of the 'Recommends' to 'Depends', so graphviz reports, geography view, and NarWeb all work out-of-the-box.  Is that OK with everyone?  I'd then issue a 3.0.0-2 .deb package.

Perhaps python-osmgpsmap and python-pyexiv2 should by "Depends", but leave ImageMagick and jhead as "Recommends"?

Nick.



Stéphane
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Re: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

John Ralls-2
In reply to this post by Nick Hall-6

On Jun 12, 2011, at 9:33 AM, Nick Hall wrote:



On 12/06/11 16:58, Stéphane Charette wrote:
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 08:14, John Ralls <[hidden email]> wrote:

What about Image Magick? I understand that for Linux one can just pull in the whole application, but that's not going to work with an OSX bundle (though it will with MacPorts or Fink). What libraries and binding files do I need to pull in to the Gramps bundle to add what Gramps wants?

I also see there is a package called "python-pythonmagick".  But instead we're directly calling ImageMagick?  Would it make it easier on other operating systems if we instead stuck to services with python bindings when available?

The Edit Image Metadata gramplet uses the convert executable in ImageMagick and the jhead executable in the jhead package.

It uses convert to convert images into jpeg format and to remove exif tags from images.  If it is not present, the convert functionality will not be available and the delete functionality will use the pyexiv2 library instead.

Rob should be able to tell us why he chose not to use python-pythonmagick or another python library such as PIL for image conversion.

I'm not sure why we can't just use pyexiv2 to remove tags.  At the moment the ImageMagick convert is used if available.  In addition jhead is called, if available, to remove all non-image related sections from the jpeg.   Again, Rob should be able to clarify this.

Why does it need to convert? EXIV2 handles quite a variety of file types [1], though unfortunately not PDF.  I guess that's another one for Rob.

Regards,
John Ralls


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Re: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

Duncan Lithgow-5
In reply to this post by Nick Hall-6
2011/6/12 Nick Hall <[hidden email]>:
...
> It uses convert to convert images into jpeg format and to remove exif tags
> from images.  If it is not present, the convert functionality will not be
> available and the delete functionality will use the pyexiv2 library instead.
...
> I'm not sure why we can't just use pyexiv2 to remove tags.  At the moment
> the ImageMagick convert is used if available.  In addition jhead is called,
> if available, to remove all non-image related sections from the jpeg.
> Again, Rob should be able to clarify this.

Rob, anyone, why are we removing any information from images? How is
Gramps to know if I want that info there? Also why would we encourage
using jpg format - is a lossy format and therefore often not really
appropriate for archival image files.

Excuse me if I'm wildly ignorant of this exif tool, I haven't tried it yet.

Duncan

--
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Re: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

Benny Malengier


2011/6/12 Duncan Lithgow <[hidden email]>
2011/6/12 Nick Hall <[hidden email]>:
...
> It uses convert to convert images into jpeg format and to remove exif tags
> from images.  If it is not present, the convert functionality will not be
> available and the delete functionality will use the pyexiv2 library instead.
...
> I'm not sure why we can't just use pyexiv2 to remove tags.  At the moment
> the ImageMagick convert is used if available.  In addition jhead is called,
> if available, to remove all non-image related sections from the jpeg.
> Again, Rob should be able to clarify this.

Rob, anyone, why are we removing any information from images? How is
Gramps to know if I want that info there? Also why would we encourage
using jpg format - is a lossy format and therefore often not really
appropriate for archival image files.

Excuse me if I'm wildly ignorant of this exif tool, I haven't tried it yet.

Yes, you should try it.
You see an image and the exif data. It's not we who add jpg, it is the user.
You can change the exif data if you click some buttons and enter some things.
Pretty straightforward.

Benny
 

Duncan

--
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Fwd: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

Benny Malengier
The reply of Rob for the entire list.

Hope that clears up the dependencies.

About jpg, apparently Rob choose to use that. He suggests to do png perhaps. Any suggestions to him what is best and how to set this (an options, just one default, ...).

Benny

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Rob Healey <[hidden email]>
Date: 2011/6/14
Subject: Re: [Gramps-devel] package dependency changes for version 3.3.0
To: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>


Dear Benny:

Hello, and how are you doing today?

On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 1:14 PM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:


2011/6/12 Duncan Lithgow <[hidden email]>
2011/6/12 Nick Hall <[hidden email]>:
...
> It uses convert to convert images into jpeg format and to remove exif tags
> from images.  If it is not present, the convert functionality will not be
> available and the delete functionality will use the pyexiv2 library instead.

Yes, Nick, is correct!  Only if the ImageMagick and jhead are installed will some of the extra functionality become available to the user!
 
...
> I'm not sure why we can't just use pyexiv2 to remove tags.  At the moment
> the ImageMagick convert is used if available.  In addition jhead is called,
> if available, to remove all non-image related sections from the jpeg.
> Again, Rob should be able to clarify this.

Yes, ImageMagick is used a lot if it is available and found on the system.  The convert program from IM, is a very easy to use software with no user interaction necessary except for pressing a button.

Jhead is used for erasing exif metadata, and for re-initializing the exif metadata headers once the exif metadata has been removed...

Rob, anyone, why are we removing any information from images? How is Gramps to know if I want that info there? Also why would we encourage using jpg format - is a lossy format and therefore often not really appropriate for archival image files.

As stated earlier, the software doesn't removing any information or exif metadata without the user choosing to do it.  The user is also given a warning dialog to make sure that they understand what is happening and they can cancel it if they want to!

The only reason that I chose to convert images to jpeg, it is the most widely used format for storing Exif metadata!  I could change it to converting to .png format if you think it would be a better option?
 

Excuse me if I'm wildly ignorant of this exif tool, I haven't tried it yet.

Yes, you should try it.
You see an image and the exif data. It's not we who add jpg, it is the user.  You can change the exif data if you click some buttons and enter some things.  Pretty straightforward.

If you are going to make the attempt to try it, I would do it in trunk as it has the easiest editing interface!

Please let me know what you think! 

I am not sure how much you know about exif metadata, but most modern camera and cell phones add extra information about the image hidden inside the image!  This information is called Exif metadata...

This information that can be held within can be changed and saved back to the image.  It can be completely removed also...

Also within the image, a thumbnail(s) can be held as well.  This hidden information can increase the size of the image.  Especially the hidden thumbnails...

One of the greatest things that can be stored within an image is the GPS Latitude/ Longitude Coordinates.  These coordinates can be read and referenced to show where the image was taken using the Geography system already in use in Gramps! 

This is one of my next challenges that I would like to accomplish...

Sincerely yours,
Rob G. Healey
 

Benny
 

Duncan

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--
Sincerely yours,
Rob G. Healey

"Always surround yourself with people that inspire you to
greatness!"



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Re: Fwd: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

Duncan Lithgow-5
I'll have a look at this tool when I get a chance in a few weeks.

Generally I think we shouldn't encourage people to use JPG without a
good explanation of what a lossy format is and when it is appropriate.
It would be a disaster for me as I have a number of images in png
format which I occasionally edit to add the names of people I've
recently identified in the pictures - if I did that using jpg it would
be a disaster for my image quality. I guess the best for file size
would be a jpg embedded in a pdf which I can add text to - but disc
size is not really the problem it was just 5 years ago.

Cheers, Duncan


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Re: Fwd: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

John Ralls-2
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier

On Jun 13, 2011, at 11:55 PM, Benny Malengier wrote:

> The reply of Rob for the entire list.
>
> Hope that clears up the dependencies.
>
> About jpg, apparently Rob choose to use that. He suggests to do png perhaps. Any suggestions to him what is best and how to set this (an options, just one default, ...).
>
> Benny
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Rob Healey <[hidden email]>
> Date: 2011/6/14
> Subject: Re: [Gramps-devel] package dependency changes for version 3.3.0
> To: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>
>
>
> Dear Benny:
>
> Hello, and how are you doing today?
>
> On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 1:14 PM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> 2011/6/12 Duncan Lithgow <[hidden email]>
> 2011/6/12 Nick Hall <[hidden email]>:
> ...
> > It uses convert to convert images into jpeg format and to remove exif tags
> > from images.  If it is not present, the convert functionality will not be
> > available and the delete functionality will use the pyexiv2 library instead.
>
> Yes, Nick, is correct!  Only if the ImageMagick and jhead are installed will some of the extra functionality become available to the user!
>  
> ...
> > I'm not sure why we can't just use pyexiv2 to remove tags.  At the moment
> > the ImageMagick convert is used if available.  In addition jhead is called,
> > if available, to remove all non-image related sections from the jpeg.
> > Again, Rob should be able to clarify this.
>
> Yes, ImageMagick is used a lot if it is available and found on the system.  The convert program from IM, is a very easy to use software with no user interaction necessary except for pressing a button.
>
> Jhead is used for erasing exif metadata, and for re-initializing the exif metadata headers once the exif metadata has been removed...
>
> Rob, anyone, why are we removing any information from images? How is Gramps to know if I want that info there? Also why would we encourage using jpg format - is a lossy format and therefore often not really appropriate for archival image files.
>
> As stated earlier, the software doesn't removing any information or exif metadata without the user choosing to do it.  The user is also given a warning dialog to make sure that they understand what is happening and they can cancel it if they want to!
>
> The only reason that I chose to convert images to jpeg, it is the most widely used format for storing Exif metadata!  I could change it to converting to .png format if you think it would be a better option?
>  
>
> Excuse me if I'm wildly ignorant of this exif tool, I haven't tried it yet.
>
> Yes, you should try it.
> You see an image and the exif data. It's not we who add jpg, it is the user.  You can change the exif data if you click some buttons and enter some things.  Pretty straightforward.
>
> If you are going to make the attempt to try it, I would do it in trunk as it has the easiest editing interface!
>
> Please let me know what you think!  
>
> I am not sure how much you know about exif metadata, but most modern camera and cell phones add extra information about the image hidden inside the image!  This information is called Exif metadata...
>
> This information that can be held within can be changed and saved back to the image.  It can be completely removed also...
>
> Also within the image, a thumbnail(s) can be held as well.  This hidden information can increase the size of the image.  Especially the hidden thumbnails...
>
> One of the greatest things that can be stored within an image is the GPS Latitude/ Longitude Coordinates.  These coordinates can be read and referenced to show where the image was taken using the Geography system already in use in Gramps!  
>
> This is one of my next challenges that I would like to accomplish...

The Exiv2 library supports most image file types, so Gramps should, too: If *and only if* the user wants to edit metadata on an unsupported type should Gramps *offer* to convert to a supported type, and present the user with a listbox to select the type. Preference, if any, should be TIFF, the industry standard format for lossless image storage (and, by the way, where EXIF originated).

What does jhead do that Exiv2 doesn't?

Regards,
John Ralls
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Re: Fwd: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

Nick Hall-6


On 14/06/11 17:25, John Ralls wrote:
On Jun 13, 2011, at 11:55 PM, Benny Malengier wrote:

The reply of Rob for the entire list. 

Hope that clears up the dependencies.

About jpg, apparently Rob choose to use that. He suggests to do png perhaps. Any suggestions to him what is best and how to set this (an options, just one default, ...).

Benny

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Rob Healey [hidden email]
Date: 2011/6/14
Subject: Re: [Gramps-devel] package dependency changes for version 3.3.0
To: Benny Malengier [hidden email]


Dear Benny:

Hello, and how are you doing today?

On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 1:14 PM, Benny Malengier [hidden email] wrote:


2011/6/12 Duncan Lithgow [hidden email]
2011/6/12 Nick Hall [hidden email]:
...
It uses convert to convert images into jpeg format and to remove exif tags
from images.  If it is not present, the convert functionality will not be
available and the delete functionality will use the pyexiv2 library instead.
Yes, Nick, is correct!  Only if the ImageMagick and jhead are installed will some of the extra functionality become available to the user!
 
...
I'm not sure why we can't just use pyexiv2 to remove tags.  At the moment
the ImageMagick convert is used if available.  In addition jhead is called,
if available, to remove all non-image related sections from the jpeg.
Again, Rob should be able to clarify this.
Yes, ImageMagick is used a lot if it is available and found on the system.  The convert program from IM, is a very easy to use software with no user interaction necessary except for pressing a button.

Jhead is used for erasing exif metadata, and for re-initializing the exif metadata headers once the exif metadata has been removed... 

Rob, anyone, why are we removing any information from images? How is Gramps to know if I want that info there? Also why would we encourage using jpg format - is a lossy format and therefore often not really appropriate for archival image files.

As stated earlier, the software doesn't removing any information or exif metadata without the user choosing to do it.  The user is also given a warning dialog to make sure that they understand what is happening and they can cancel it if they want to!

The only reason that I chose to convert images to jpeg, it is the most widely used format for storing Exif metadata!  I could change it to converting to .png format if you think it would be a better option?
 

Excuse me if I'm wildly ignorant of this exif tool, I haven't tried it yet.

Yes, you should try it. 
You see an image and the exif data. It's not we who add jpg, it is the user.  You can change the exif data if you click some buttons and enter some things.  Pretty straightforward.

If you are going to make the attempt to try it, I would do it in trunk as it has the easiest editing interface!

Please let me know what you think!  

I am not sure how much you know about exif metadata, but most modern camera and cell phones add extra information about the image hidden inside the image!  This information is called Exif metadata...

This information that can be held within can be changed and saved back to the image.  It can be completely removed also...

Also within the image, a thumbnail(s) can be held as well.  This hidden information can increase the size of the image.  Especially the hidden thumbnails...

One of the greatest things that can be stored within an image is the GPS Latitude/ Longitude Coordinates.  These coordinates can be read and referenced to show where the image was taken using the Geography system already in use in Gramps!  

This is one of my next challenges that I would like to accomplish...
The Exiv2 library supports most image file types, so Gramps should, too: If *and only if* the user wants to edit metadata on an unsupported type should Gramps *offer* to convert to a supported type, and present the user with a listbox to select the type. Preference, if any, should be TIFF, the industry standard format for lossless image storage (and, by the way, where EXIF originated).

What does jhead do that Exiv2 doesn't?

Rob uses it to delete all non-image sections from jpeg files.

The documentation for jhead can be found here:
http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/jhead/usage.html

From the link above:
"-purejpg Delete all JPEG sections that aren't necessary for rendering the image. Strips any metadata that various applications may have left in the image."

I think it only works for jpeg files.  Perhaps we need to think more carefully about the functionality for 3.4?

The current version in branch33 does not use ImageMagick or jhead, so we don't need them as dependencies at all.

Nick.


Regards,
John Ralls
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Re: Fwd: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

John Ralls-2

On Jun 14, 2011, at 9:45 AM, Nick Hall wrote:

>
>
> On 14/06/11 17:25, John Ralls wrote:
>> On Jun 13, 2011, at 11:55 PM, Benny Malengier wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The reply of Rob for the entire list.
>>>
>>> Hope that clears up the dependencies.
>>>
>>> About jpg, apparently Rob choose to use that. He suggests to do png perhaps. Any suggestions to him what is best and how to set this (an options, just one default, ...).
>>>
>>> Benny
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Rob Healey
>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>> Date: 2011/6/14
>>> Subject: Re: [Gramps-devel] package dependency changes for version 3.3.0
>>> To: Benny Malengier
>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Benny:
>>>
>>> Hello, and how are you doing today?
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 1:14 PM, Benny Malengier
>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> 2011/6/12 Duncan Lithgow
>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>> 2011/6/12 Nick Hall
>>> <[hidden email]>
>>> :
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> It uses convert to convert images into jpeg format and to remove exif tags
>>>> from images.  If it is not present, the convert functionality will not be
>>>> available and the delete functionality will use the pyexiv2 library instead.
>>>>
>>> Yes, Nick, is correct!  Only if the ImageMagick and jhead are installed will some of the extra functionality become available to the user!
>>>  
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> I'm not sure why we can't just use pyexiv2 to remove tags.  At the moment
>>>> the ImageMagick convert is used if available.  In addition jhead is called,
>>>> if available, to remove all non-image related sections from the jpeg.
>>>> Again, Rob should be able to clarify this.
>>>>
>>> Yes, ImageMagick is used a lot if it is available and found on the system.  The convert program from IM, is a very easy to use software with no user interaction necessary except for pressing a button.
>>>
>>> Jhead is used for erasing exif metadata, and for re-initializing the exif metadata headers once the exif metadata has been removed...
>>>
>>> Rob, anyone, why are we removing any information from images? How is Gramps to know if I want that info there? Also why would we encourage using jpg format - is a lossy format and therefore often not really appropriate for archival image files.
>>>
>>> As stated earlier, the software doesn't removing any information or exif metadata without the user choosing to do it.  The user is also given a warning dialog to make sure that they understand what is happening and they can cancel it if they want to!
>>>
>>> The only reason that I chose to convert images to jpeg, it is the most widely used format for storing Exif metadata!  I could change it to converting to .png format if you think it would be a better option?
>>>  
>>>
>>> Excuse me if I'm wildly ignorant of this exif tool, I haven't tried it yet.
>>>
>>> Yes, you should try it.
>>> You see an image and the exif data. It's not we who add jpg, it is the user.  You can change the exif data if you click some buttons and enter some things.  Pretty straightforward.
>>>
>>> If you are going to make the attempt to try it, I would do it in trunk as it has the easiest editing interface!
>>>
>>> Please let me know what you think!  
>>>
>>> I am not sure how much you know about exif metadata, but most modern camera and cell phones add extra information about the image hidden inside the image!  This information is called Exif metadata...
>>>
>>> This information that can be held within can be changed and saved back to the image.  It can be completely removed also...
>>>
>>> Also within the image, a thumbnail(s) can be held as well.  This hidden information can increase the size of the image.  Especially the hidden thumbnails...
>>>
>>> One of the greatest things that can be stored within an image is the GPS Latitude/ Longitude Coordinates.  These coordinates can be read and referenced to show where the image was taken using the Geography system already in use in Gramps!  
>>>
>>> This is one of my next challenges that I would like to accomplish...
>>>
>> The Exiv2 library supports most image file types, so Gramps should, too: If *and only if* the user wants to edit metadata on an unsupported type should Gramps *offer* to convert to a supported type, and present the user with a listbox to select the type. Preference, if any, should be TIFF, the industry standard format for lossless image storage (and, by the way, where EXIF originated).
>>
>> What does jhead do that Exiv2 doesn't?
>>
>
> Rob uses it to delete all non-image sections from jpeg files.
>
> The documentation for jhead can be found here:
> http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/jhead/usage.html
>
> From the link above:
> "-purejpg Delete all JPEG sections that aren't necessary for rendering the image. Strips any metadata that various applications may have left in the image."
>
> I think it only works for jpeg files.  Perhaps we need to think more carefully about the functionality for 3.4?
>
> The current version in branch33 does not use ImageMagick or jhead, so we don't need them as dependencies at all.

Which can be accomplished with Exiv2::Image:writeMetadata() and empty metadata objects. [1][2] Works for all supported metadata types. The pyexiv2 bindings don't provide the "clear" functions, but jhead doesn't support python at all, so ISTM it makes more sense to use the Exiv2 C++ directly than to use jhead C when the latter is much less capable.

Shouldn't Rob be explaining this for himself?

Regards,
John Ralls

[1] http://www.exiv2.org/doc/classExiv2_1_1Image.html
[2] e.g.

void
clear_filename(std::string path)
{
  Exiv2::Image::AutoPtr image = Exiv2::ImageFactory::open(path);
  image->readMetadata();
  image->clearExifData();
  image->clearIptcData();
  image->clearXmpData();
  image->clearComment();
  image->writeMetadata();
  //image, being a std::autoptr, will be destroyed when it goes out of scope
}
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Re: Fwd: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

Stéphane Charette-2
In reply to this post by Nick Hall-6

The current version in branch33 does not use ImageMagick or jhead, so we don't need them as dependencies at all.

Hum...?  Are you sure?  I was told to add ImageMagick and jhead as dependencies for 3.3.0, which I did when 3.3.0 was released a few days ago.

Stéphane

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Re: Fwd: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

Benny Malengier


2011/6/14 Stéphane Charette <[hidden email]>

The current version in branch33 does not use ImageMagick or jhead, so we don't need them as dependencies at all.

Hum...?  Are you sure?  I was told to add ImageMagick and jhead as dependencies for 3.3.0, which I did when 3.3.0 was released a few days ago.

Looking in the 3.3 README, those two are not listed.  I also don't see them in trunk.
Was it not something in the deb file of before?

Benny


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Re: Fwd: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

Nick Hall-6
In reply to this post by Stéphane Charette-2
Stéphane,

My mistake - both gramps33 and trunk use ImageMagick and jhead if installed.

Sorry about that.

Nick.


On 14/06/11 19:49, Stéphane Charette wrote:

The current version in branch33 does not use ImageMagick or jhead, so we don't need them as dependencies at all.

Hum...?  Are you sure?  I was told to add ImageMagick and jhead as dependencies for 3.3.0, which I did when 3.3.0 was released a few days ago.

Stéphane

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Re: Fwd: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

robhealey1
In reply to this post by John Ralls-2
Dear John:

I truly did not understand about most of the image file types, and which one was the best!  It seems that everywhere that you look, jpeg was being used...

I like your idea about offering the user a choice of which file type to convert the unsupported file types into a supported type by using a drop down box...  I will do this....

I, also, didn't know that tiff was the industry standard for lossless format....  I will make this one the top choice in the drop down box...

This will be in the new gramplet for trunk....

BTW, I do not know anything about the exiv2 library?

Sincerely yours,
Rob G. Healey




On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 9:25 AM, John Ralls <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Jun 13, 2011, at 11:55 PM, Benny Malengier wrote:

> The reply of Rob for the entire list.
>
> Hope that clears up the dependencies.
>
> About jpg, apparently Rob choose to use that. He suggests to do png perhaps. Any suggestions to him what is best and how to set this (an options, just one default, ...).
>
> Benny
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Rob Healey <[hidden email]>
> Date: 2011/6/14
> Subject: Re: [Gramps-devel] package dependency changes for version 3.3.0
> To: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>
>
>
> Dear Benny:
>
> Hello, and how are you doing today?
>
> On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 1:14 PM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> 2011/6/12 Duncan Lithgow <[hidden email]>
> 2011/6/12 Nick Hall <[hidden email]>:
> ...
> > It uses convert to convert images into jpeg format and to remove exif tags
> > from images.  If it is not present, the convert functionality will not be
> > available and the delete functionality will use the pyexiv2 library instead.
>
> Yes, Nick, is correct!  Only if the ImageMagick and jhead are installed will some of the extra functionality become available to the user!
>
> ...
> > I'm not sure why we can't just use pyexiv2 to remove tags.  At the moment
> > the ImageMagick convert is used if available.  In addition jhead is called,
> > if available, to remove all non-image related sections from the jpeg.
> > Again, Rob should be able to clarify this.
>
> Yes, ImageMagick is used a lot if it is available and found on the system.  The convert program from IM, is a very easy to use software with no user interaction necessary except for pressing a button.
>
> Jhead is used for erasing exif metadata, and for re-initializing the exif metadata headers once the exif metadata has been removed...
>
> Rob, anyone, why are we removing any information from images? How is Gramps to know if I want that info there? Also why would we encourage using jpg format - is a lossy format and therefore often not really appropriate for archival image files.
>
> As stated earlier, the software doesn't removing any information or exif metadata without the user choosing to do it.  The user is also given a warning dialog to make sure that they understand what is happening and they can cancel it if they want to!
>
> The only reason that I chose to convert images to jpeg, it is the most widely used format for storing Exif metadata!  I could change it to converting to .png format if you think it would be a better option?
>
>
> Excuse me if I'm wildly ignorant of this exif tool, I haven't tried it yet.
>
> Yes, you should try it.
> You see an image and the exif data. It's not we who add jpg, it is the user.  You can change the exif data if you click some buttons and enter some things.  Pretty straightforward.
>
> If you are going to make the attempt to try it, I would do it in trunk as it has the easiest editing interface!
>
> Please let me know what you think!
>
> I am not sure how much you know about exif metadata, but most modern camera and cell phones add extra information about the image hidden inside the image!  This information is called Exif metadata...
>
> This information that can be held within can be changed and saved back to the image.  It can be completely removed also...
>
> Also within the image, a thumbnail(s) can be held as well.  This hidden information can increase the size of the image.  Especially the hidden thumbnails...
>
> One of the greatest things that can be stored within an image is the GPS Latitude/ Longitude Coordinates.  These coordinates can be read and referenced to show where the image was taken using the Geography system already in use in Gramps!
>
> This is one of my next challenges that I would like to accomplish...

The Exiv2 library supports most image file types, so Gramps should, too: If *and only if* the user wants to edit metadata on an unsupported type should Gramps *offer* to convert to a supported type, and present the user with a listbox to select the type. Preference, if any, should be TIFF, the industry standard format for lossless image storage (and, by the way, where EXIF originated).

What does jhead do that Exiv2 doesn't?

Regards,
John Ralls
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Sincerely yours,
Rob G. Healey

"Always surround yourself with people that inspire you to
greatness!"


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Re: Fwd: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

robhealey1
In reply to this post by Nick Hall-6
Dear Nick:

I AM UNSURE OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE!  Gramps33 DOES use ImageMagick and Jhead...

Sincerely yours,
Rob G. Healey


On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Nick Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:


On 14/06/11 17:25, John Ralls wrote:
On Jun 13, 2011, at 11:55 PM, Benny Malengier wrote:

The reply of Rob for the entire list. 

Hope that clears up the dependencies.

About jpg, apparently Rob choose to use that. He suggests to do png perhaps. Any suggestions to him what is best and how to set this (an options, just one default, ...).

Benny

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Rob Healey [hidden email]
Date: 2011/6/14
Subject: Re: [Gramps-devel] package dependency changes for version 3.3.0
To: Benny Malengier [hidden email]


Dear Benny:

Hello, and how are you doing today?

On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 1:14 PM, Benny Malengier [hidden email] wrote:


2011/6/12 Duncan Lithgow [hidden email]
2011/6/12 Nick Hall [hidden email]:
...
It uses convert to convert images into jpeg format and to remove exif tags
from images.  If it is not present, the convert functionality will not be
available and the delete functionality will use the pyexiv2 library instead.
Yes, Nick, is correct!  Only if the ImageMagick and jhead are installed will some of the extra functionality become available to the user!
 
...
I'm not sure why we can't just use pyexiv2 to remove tags.  At the moment
the ImageMagick convert is used if available.  In addition jhead is called,
if available, to remove all non-image related sections from the jpeg.
Again, Rob should be able to clarify this.
Yes, ImageMagick is used a lot if it is available and found on the system.  The convert program from IM, is a very easy to use software with no user interaction necessary except for pressing a button.

Jhead is used for erasing exif metadata, and for re-initializing the exif metadata headers once the exif metadata has been removed... 

Rob, anyone, why are we removing any information from images? How is Gramps to know if I want that info there? Also why would we encourage using jpg format - is a lossy format and therefore often not really appropriate for archival image files.

As stated earlier, the software doesn't removing any information or exif metadata without the user choosing to do it.  The user is also given a warning dialog to make sure that they understand what is happening and they can cancel it if they want to!

The only reason that I chose to convert images to jpeg, it is the most widely used format for storing Exif metadata!  I could change it to converting to .png format if you think it would be a better option?
 

Excuse me if I'm wildly ignorant of this exif tool, I haven't tried it yet.

Yes, you should try it. 
You see an image and the exif data. It's not we who add jpg, it is the user.  You can change the exif data if you click some buttons and enter some things.  Pretty straightforward.

If you are going to make the attempt to try it, I would do it in trunk as it has the easiest editing interface!

Please let me know what you think!  

I am not sure how much you know about exif metadata, but most modern camera and cell phones add extra information about the image hidden inside the image!  This information is called Exif metadata...

This information that can be held within can be changed and saved back to the image.  It can be completely removed also...

Also within the image, a thumbnail(s) can be held as well.  This hidden information can increase the size of the image.  Especially the hidden thumbnails...

One of the greatest things that can be stored within an image is the GPS Latitude/ Longitude Coordinates.  These coordinates can be read and referenced to show where the image was taken using the Geography system already in use in Gramps!  

This is one of my next challenges that I would like to accomplish...
The Exiv2 library supports most image file types, so Gramps should, too: If *and only if* the user wants to edit metadata on an unsupported type should Gramps *offer* to convert to a supported type, and present the user with a listbox to select the type. Preference, if any, should be TIFF, the industry standard format for lossless image storage (and, by the way, where EXIF originated).

What does jhead do that Exiv2 doesn't?

Rob uses it to delete all non-image sections from jpeg files.

The documentation for jhead can be found here:
http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/jhead/usage.html

From the link above:
"-purejpg Delete all JPEG sections that aren't necessary for rendering the image. Strips any metadata that various applications may have left in the image."

I think it only works for jpeg files.  Perhaps we need to think more carefully about the functionality for 3.4?

The current version in branch33 does not use ImageMagick or jhead, so we don't need them as dependencies at all.

Nick.



Regards,
John Ralls
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--
Sincerely yours,
Rob G. Healey

"Always surround yourself with people that inspire you to
greatness!"


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