Re: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

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Re: Fwd: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

robhealey1
Dear Benny:

Not being in part of the README Optional dependencies was my failure to list them!

It has now been added to the README in trunk/ gramps33 ...

Sincerely yours,
Rob G. Healey


2011/6/14 Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>


2011/6/14 Stéphane Charette <[hidden email]>

The current version in branch33 does not use ImageMagick or jhead, so we don't need them as dependencies at all.

Hum...?  Are you sure?  I was told to add ImageMagick and jhead as dependencies for 3.3.0, which I did when 3.3.0 was released a few days ago.

Looking in the 3.3 README, those two are not listed.  I also don't see them in trunk.
Was it not something in the deb file of before?

Benny


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Re: Fwd: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

Benny Malengier
In reply to this post by robhealey1


2011/6/15 Rob Healey <[hidden email]>
Dear John:

I truly did not understand about most of the image file types, and which one was the best!  It seems that everywhere that you look, jpeg was being used...

I like your idea about offering the user a choice of which file type to convert the unsupported file types into a supported type by using a drop down box...  I will do this....

I, also, didn't know that tiff was the industry standard for lossless format....  I will make this one the top choice in the drop down box...

This will be in the new gramplet for trunk....

Rob, I would not like to see image metadata gramplet see no maintenance in branch33. Some of these things are shortcomings which I believe should also be addressed in branch33.
This is a single plugin with no relation to the rest of Gramps, so the strict rule of only bug fixes is at the beginning a bit more relaxed.

Benny

BTW, I do not know anything about the exiv2 library?

Sincerely yours,
Rob G. Healey




On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 9:25 AM, John Ralls <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Jun 13, 2011, at 11:55 PM, Benny Malengier wrote:

> The reply of Rob for the entire list.
>
> Hope that clears up the dependencies.
>
> About jpg, apparently Rob choose to use that. He suggests to do png perhaps. Any suggestions to him what is best and how to set this (an options, just one default, ...).
>
> Benny
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Rob Healey <[hidden email]>
> Date: 2011/6/14
> Subject: Re: [Gramps-devel] package dependency changes for version 3.3.0
> To: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>
>
>
> Dear Benny:
>
> Hello, and how are you doing today?
>
> On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 1:14 PM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> 2011/6/12 Duncan Lithgow <[hidden email]>
> 2011/6/12 Nick Hall <[hidden email]>:
> ...
> > It uses convert to convert images into jpeg format and to remove exif tags
> > from images.  If it is not present, the convert functionality will not be
> > available and the delete functionality will use the pyexiv2 library instead.
>
> Yes, Nick, is correct!  Only if the ImageMagick and jhead are installed will some of the extra functionality become available to the user!
>
> ...
> > I'm not sure why we can't just use pyexiv2 to remove tags.  At the moment
> > the ImageMagick convert is used if available.  In addition jhead is called,
> > if available, to remove all non-image related sections from the jpeg.
> > Again, Rob should be able to clarify this.
>
> Yes, ImageMagick is used a lot if it is available and found on the system.  The convert program from IM, is a very easy to use software with no user interaction necessary except for pressing a button.
>
> Jhead is used for erasing exif metadata, and for re-initializing the exif metadata headers once the exif metadata has been removed...
>
> Rob, anyone, why are we removing any information from images? How is Gramps to know if I want that info there? Also why would we encourage using jpg format - is a lossy format and therefore often not really appropriate for archival image files.
>
> As stated earlier, the software doesn't removing any information or exif metadata without the user choosing to do it.  The user is also given a warning dialog to make sure that they understand what is happening and they can cancel it if they want to!
>
> The only reason that I chose to convert images to jpeg, it is the most widely used format for storing Exif metadata!  I could change it to converting to .png format if you think it would be a better option?
>
>
> Excuse me if I'm wildly ignorant of this exif tool, I haven't tried it yet.
>
> Yes, you should try it.
> You see an image and the exif data. It's not we who add jpg, it is the user.  You can change the exif data if you click some buttons and enter some things.  Pretty straightforward.
>
> If you are going to make the attempt to try it, I would do it in trunk as it has the easiest editing interface!
>
> Please let me know what you think!
>
> I am not sure how much you know about exif metadata, but most modern camera and cell phones add extra information about the image hidden inside the image!  This information is called Exif metadata...
>
> This information that can be held within can be changed and saved back to the image.  It can be completely removed also...
>
> Also within the image, a thumbnail(s) can be held as well.  This hidden information can increase the size of the image.  Especially the hidden thumbnails...
>
> One of the greatest things that can be stored within an image is the GPS Latitude/ Longitude Coordinates.  These coordinates can be read and referenced to show where the image was taken using the Geography system already in use in Gramps!
>
> This is one of my next challenges that I would like to accomplish...

The Exiv2 library supports most image file types, so Gramps should, too: If *and only if* the user wants to edit metadata on an unsupported type should Gramps *offer* to convert to a supported type, and present the user with a listbox to select the type. Preference, if any, should be TIFF, the industry standard format for lossless image storage (and, by the way, where EXIF originated).

What does jhead do that Exiv2 doesn't?

Regards,
John Ralls
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Re: Fwd: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

Nick Hall-6
In reply to this post by robhealey1
Rob,

Sorry, I corrected myself in a later post.

Nick.


On 15/06/11 05:37, Rob Healey wrote:
Dear Nick:

I AM UNSURE OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE!  Gramps33 DOES use ImageMagick and Jhead...

Sincerely yours,
Rob G. Healey


On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Nick Hall <[hidden email]> wrote:


On 14/06/11 17:25, John Ralls wrote:
On Jun 13, 2011, at 11:55 PM, Benny Malengier wrote:

The reply of Rob for the entire list. 

Hope that clears up the dependencies.

About jpg, apparently Rob choose to use that. He suggests to do png perhaps. Any suggestions to him what is best and how to set this (an options, just one default, ...).

Benny

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Rob Healey [hidden email]
Date: 2011/6/14
Subject: Re: [Gramps-devel] package dependency changes for version 3.3.0
To: Benny Malengier [hidden email]


Dear Benny:

Hello, and how are you doing today?

On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 1:14 PM, Benny Malengier [hidden email] wrote:


2011/6/12 Duncan Lithgow [hidden email]
2011/6/12 Nick Hall [hidden email]:
...
It uses convert to convert images into jpeg format and to remove exif tags
from images.  If it is not present, the convert functionality will not be
available and the delete functionality will use the pyexiv2 library instead.
Yes, Nick, is correct!  Only if the ImageMagick and jhead are installed will some of the extra functionality become available to the user!
 
...
I'm not sure why we can't just use pyexiv2 to remove tags.  At the moment
the ImageMagick convert is used if available.  In addition jhead is called,
if available, to remove all non-image related sections from the jpeg.
Again, Rob should be able to clarify this.
Yes, ImageMagick is used a lot if it is available and found on the system.  The convert program from IM, is a very easy to use software with no user interaction necessary except for pressing a button.

Jhead is used for erasing exif metadata, and for re-initializing the exif metadata headers once the exif metadata has been removed... 

Rob, anyone, why are we removing any information from images? How is Gramps to know if I want that info there? Also why would we encourage using jpg format - is a lossy format and therefore often not really appropriate for archival image files.

As stated earlier, the software doesn't removing any information or exif metadata without the user choosing to do it.  The user is also given a warning dialog to make sure that they understand what is happening and they can cancel it if they want to!

The only reason that I chose to convert images to jpeg, it is the most widely used format for storing Exif metadata!  I could change it to converting to .png format if you think it would be a better option?
 

Excuse me if I'm wildly ignorant of this exif tool, I haven't tried it yet.

Yes, you should try it. 
You see an image and the exif data. It's not we who add jpg, it is the user.  You can change the exif data if you click some buttons and enter some things.  Pretty straightforward.

If you are going to make the attempt to try it, I would do it in trunk as it has the easiest editing interface!

Please let me know what you think!  

I am not sure how much you know about exif metadata, but most modern camera and cell phones add extra information about the image hidden inside the image!  This information is called Exif metadata...

This information that can be held within can be changed and saved back to the image.  It can be completely removed also...

Also within the image, a thumbnail(s) can be held as well.  This hidden information can increase the size of the image.  Especially the hidden thumbnails...

One of the greatest things that can be stored within an image is the GPS Latitude/ Longitude Coordinates.  These coordinates can be read and referenced to show where the image was taken using the Geography system already in use in Gramps!  

This is one of my next challenges that I would like to accomplish...
The Exiv2 library supports most image file types, so Gramps should, too: If *and only if* the user wants to edit metadata on an unsupported type should Gramps *offer* to convert to a supported type, and present the user with a listbox to select the type. Preference, if any, should be TIFF, the industry standard format for lossless image storage (and, by the way, where EXIF originated).

What does jhead do that Exiv2 doesn't?

Rob uses it to delete all non-image sections from jpeg files.

The documentation for jhead can be found here:
http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/jhead/usage.html

From the link above:
"-purejpg Delete all JPEG sections that aren't necessary for rendering the image. Strips any metadata that various applications may have left in the image."

I think it only works for jpeg files.  Perhaps we need to think more carefully about the functionality for 3.4?

The current version in branch33 does not use ImageMagick or jhead, so we don't need them as dependencies at all.

Nick.



Regards,
John Ralls
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greatness!"


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Re: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

Stéphane Charette-2
In reply to this post by Stéphane Charette-2
2011/6/12 Stéphane Charette <[hidden email]>

Here is the thing:  after I installed the .deb on my new 11.04 installation, none of the recommended packages were installed.  Not graphviz, not imagemagick, not osmgpsmap.  It is unfortunate that "Ubuntu Software Centre" -- the new default handler for .deb files seems to ignore the 'Recommends' and 'Suggests' fields.

I'd like to move all of the 'Recommends' to 'Depends', so graphviz reports, geography view, and NarWeb all work out-of-the-box.  Is that OK with everyone?  I'd then issue a 3.0.0-2 .deb package.


We've talked about the various dependencies, but I never got an answer to my questions.  Please let me know if everyone is OK with this change, or if I leave it alone.

Stéphane

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Re: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

robhealey1
Dear Stephane:

I would say yes because a user doesn't want to have to add so many extra programs just to get something working with all of its functionality right out of the box!

I think it would be a great idea to be able to use pyexiv2 and osm-gps-map without having to go somewhere else!

Sincerely yours,
Rob G. Healey


2011/6/15 Stéphane Charette <[hidden email]>
2011/6/12 Stéphane Charette <[hidden email]>

Here is the thing:  after I installed the .deb on my new 11.04 installation, none of the recommended packages were installed.  Not graphviz, not imagemagick, not osmgpsmap.  It is unfortunate that "Ubuntu Software Centre" -- the new default handler for .deb files seems to ignore the 'Recommends' and 'Suggests' fields.

I'd like to move all of the 'Recommends' to 'Depends', so graphviz reports, geography view, and NarWeb all work out-of-the-box.  Is that OK with everyone?  I'd then issue a 3.0.0-2 .deb package.


We've talked about the various dependencies, but I never got an answer to my questions.  Please let me know if everyone is OK with this change, or if I leave it alone.

Stéphane

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Re: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

Nick Hall-6


On 15/06/11 20:36, Rob Healey wrote:
Dear Stephane:

I would say yes because a user doesn't want to have to add so many extra programs just to get something working with all of its functionality right out of the box!

I think it would be a great idea to be able to use pyexiv2 and osm-gps-map without having to go somewhere else!

I would certainly make pyexiv2 and osm-gps-map "Depends".  I'm not so sure about ImageMagick and jhead.

Nick.



Sincerely yours,
Rob G. Healey


2011/6/15 Stéphane Charette <[hidden email]>
2011/6/12 Stéphane Charette <[hidden email]>

Here is the thing:  after I installed the .deb on my new 11.04 installation, none of the recommended packages were installed.  Not graphviz, not imagemagick, not osmgpsmap.  It is unfortunate that "Ubuntu Software Centre" -- the new default handler for .deb files seems to ignore the 'Recommends' and 'Suggests' fields.

I'd like to move all of the 'Recommends' to 'Depends', so graphviz reports, geography view, and NarWeb all work out-of-the-box.  Is that OK with everyone?  I'd then issue a 3.0.0-2 .deb package.


We've talked about the various dependencies, but I never got an answer to my questions.  Please let me know if everyone is OK with this change, or if I leave it alone.

Stéphane

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Re: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

Benny Malengier
In reply to this post by Stéphane Charette-2


2011/6/15 Stéphane Charette <[hidden email]>
2011/6/12 Stéphane Charette <[hidden email]>

Here is the thing:  after I installed the .deb on my new 11.04 installation, none of the recommended packages were installed.  Not graphviz, not imagemagick, not osmgpsmap.  It is unfortunate that "Ubuntu Software Centre" -- the new default handler for .deb files seems to ignore the 'Recommends' and 'Suggests' fields.

I'd like to move all of the 'Recommends' to 'Depends', so graphviz reports, geography view, and NarWeb all work out-of-the-box.  Is that OK with everyone?  I'd then issue a 3.0.0-2 .deb package.


We've talked about the various dependencies, but I never got an answer to my questions.  Please let me know if everyone is OK with this change, or if I leave it alone.

osmgpsmap and graphviz can be considered really needed for the full experience.
imagemagick I would not do.

Benny

Stéphane

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Re: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

Stéphane Charette-2
So Rob, Nick, and Benny all have different opinions.  Doesn't look like we're converging on a decision.  ;)

Here is what I know:

- graphviz:  some views and reports don't work without it
- osmgpsmap:  the geography view doesn't work without it
- jhead:  some features of NarrativeWeb (or gramplets?) don't work without it
- imagemagick:  some features of NarrativeWeb (or gramplets?) don't work without it
- python-pyexiv2: some features of NarrativeWeb (or gramplets?) don't work without it

(I understand some of these packages are not the best solution, but that is a topic for another thread for us to fix in 3.3.1 or 3.4, or...etc...)

So back to the question:  now that we know that Ubuntu doesn't install "Recommends" nor "Suggests" by default when installing the Gramps 3.3.0 .deb package, why not make all of these "Depends" and have Gramps work as people expect when they install the 3.3.0 .deb file?  It would avoid us having to tell people all time that in addition, they need to install x, y, and z.  And Aunt Betty will have things simply work to the best of our abilities when she installs the Gramps .deb file.  No need to lurk on the gramps mailing list to accidentally find out some additional packages are needed.

Stéphane


2011/6/15 Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>


2011/6/15 Stéphane Charette <[hidden email]>
2011/6/12 Stéphane Charette <[hidden email]>

Here is the thing:  after I installed the .deb on my new 11.04 installation, none of the recommended packages were installed.  Not graphviz, not imagemagick, not osmgpsmap.  It is unfortunate that "Ubuntu Software Centre" -- the new default handler for .deb files seems to ignore the 'Recommends' and 'Suggests' fields.

I'd like to move all of the 'Recommends' to 'Depends', so graphviz reports, geography view, and NarWeb all work out-of-the-box.  Is that OK with everyone?  I'd then issue a 3.0.0-2 .deb package.


We've talked about the various dependencies, but I never got an answer to my questions.  Please let me know if everyone is OK with this change, or if I leave it alone.

osmgpsmap and graphviz can be considered really needed for the full experience.
imagemagick I would not do.

Benny

Stéphane

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Re: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

robhealey1
Greetings:

Doug, if my addon were to go back into the third- party plugins of gramps-addons, would you be able to get the alert window that extra software is needed to work properly when a user would select this addon from the Update Plugins Manager ???

I know that I have a biased opinion because some of these optional dependencies grossly affect my work if they are not included with the mandatory dependencies?

Ok, list what I know to be affected by:
pyexiv2 -- EditExifMetadata * Allows Viewing and Editing of Exif 
                   metadata from within Gramps-3.3.0 ...

              Image Metadata  bottombar addon -- allows viewing of image
                  Exif metadata...

osm-gps-map -- the whole Geography Framework...

Graphviz -- plugins

ImageMagick -- EditExifMetadata ** Convert, and Delete functions

Jhead -- EditExifMetadata ** Re-initialization and Cleanup of .jpeg files

pygoocanvas
goocanvas -- GraphView

Of the ones listed here, I would say that osm-gps-map and its python bindings, Graphviz, goocanvas and its python bindings, and pyexiv2, would and should be mandatory dependencies!

ImageMagick, and Jhead are not critical to the operation of my addon, Edit Image Exif Metadata, but they do add functionality to my addon that I feel are important at least to me with dealing with Exif metadata and images...  A while back of last year, Doug Blank from his trip to RootsTech said to Benny Malengier which related it to me, that genealogy users would love to have Exif Metadata in their Genealogy Software!

This news was exciting to me because something that I thought would be nice to have was being validated by Benny's comments to me!  It gave me purpose in what I was doing...

I would also like to add to GeographyView in trunk, the ability to locate where an image or all images were referenced on a map as GeoPlaces does now!  Add GeoMedia...

Now, Nick Hall, also has a stake in the pyexiv2 library as his Image Metadata BottomBar addon requires pyexiv2 as well...

Sincerely yours,
Rob G. healey


2011/6/15 Stéphane Charette <[hidden email]>
So Rob, Nick, and Benny all have different opinions.  Doesn't look like we're converging on a decision.  ;)

Here is what I know:

- graphviz:  some views and reports don't work without it
- osmgpsmap:  the geography view doesn't work without it
- jhead:  some features of NarrativeWeb (or gramplets?) don't work without it
- imagemagick:  some features of NarrativeWeb (or gramplets?) don't work without it
- python-pyexiv2: some features of NarrativeWeb (or gramplets?) don't work without it

(I understand some of these packages are not the best solution, but that is a topic for another thread for us to fix in 3.3.1 or 3.4, or...etc...)

So back to the question:  now that we know that Ubuntu doesn't install "Recommends" nor "Suggests" by default when installing the Gramps 3.3.0 .deb package, why not make all of these "Depends" and have Gramps work as people expect when they install the 3.3.0 .deb file?  It would avoid us having to tell people all time that in addition, they need to install x, y, and z.  And Aunt Betty will have things simply work to the best of our abilities when she installs the Gramps .deb file.  No need to lurk on the gramps mailing list to accidentally find out some additional packages are needed.

Stéphane



2011/6/15 Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>


2011/6/15 Stéphane Charette <[hidden email]>
2011/6/12 Stéphane Charette <[hidden email]>

Here is the thing:  after I installed the .deb on my new 11.04 installation, none of the recommended packages were installed.  Not graphviz, not imagemagick, not osmgpsmap.  It is unfortunate that "Ubuntu Software Centre" -- the new default handler for .deb files seems to ignore the 'Recommends' and 'Suggests' fields.

I'd like to move all of the 'Recommends' to 'Depends', so graphviz reports, geography view, and NarWeb all work out-of-the-box.  Is that OK with everyone?  I'd then issue a 3.0.0-2 .deb package.


We've talked about the various dependencies, but I never got an answer to my questions.  Please let me know if everyone is OK with this change, or if I leave it alone.

osmgpsmap and graphviz can be considered really needed for the full experience.
imagemagick I would not do.

Benny

Stéphane

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Re: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

DS Blank
On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 9:10 PM, Rob Healey <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Greetings:
>
> Doug, if my addon were to go back into the third- party plugins of
> gramps-addons, would you be able to get the alert window that extra software
> is needed to work properly when a user would select this addon from the
> Update Plugins Manager ???

I like the idea of having addons that can list package/library
dependencies, but we don't have that. You can list dependencies on
other addons, and they will get loaded first.

You can do it yourself, though, by putting some code in your addon.py file.

> I know that I have a biased opinion because some of these optional
> dependencies grossly affect my work if they are not included with the
> mandatory dependencies?

As I mentioned when you were writing it, I would use the most common
libraries, even if that means having slightly different functionality.
I would also keep the dependencies to a minimum.

-Doug

> Ok, list what I know to be affected by:
> pyexiv2 -- EditExifMetadata * Allows Viewing and Editing of Exif
>                    metadata from within Gramps-3.3.0 ...
>
>               Image Metadata  bottombar addon -- allows viewing of image
>                   Exif metadata...
>
> osm-gps-map -- the whole Geography Framework...
>
> Graphviz -- plugins
>
> ImageMagick -- EditExifMetadata ** Convert, and Delete functions
>
> Jhead -- EditExifMetadata ** Re-initialization and Cleanup of .jpeg files
>
> pygoocanvas
> goocanvas -- GraphView
>
> Of the ones listed here, I would say that osm-gps-map and its python
> bindings, Graphviz, goocanvas and its python bindings, and pyexiv2, would
> and should be mandatory dependencies!
>
> ImageMagick, and Jhead are not critical to the operation of my addon, Edit
> Image Exif Metadata, but they do add functionality to my addon that I feel
> are important at least to me with dealing with Exif metadata and images...
> A while back of last year, Doug Blank from his trip to RootsTech said to
> Benny Malengier which related it to me, that genealogy users would love to
> have Exif Metadata in their Genealogy Software!
>
> This news was exciting to me because something that I thought would be nice
> to have was being validated by Benny's comments to me!  It gave me purpose
> in what I was doing...
>
> I would also like to add to GeographyView in trunk, the ability to locate
> where an image or all images were referenced on a map as GeoPlaces does
> now!  Add GeoMedia...
>
> Now, Nick Hall, also has a stake in the pyexiv2 library as his Image
> Metadata BottomBar addon requires pyexiv2 as well...
>
> Sincerely yours,
> Rob G. healey
>
>
> 2011/6/15 Stéphane Charette <[hidden email]>
>>
>> So Rob, Nick, and Benny all have different opinions.  Doesn't look like
>> we're converging on a decision.  ;)
>>
>> Here is what I know:
>>
>> - graphviz:  some views and reports don't work without it
>> - osmgpsmap:  the geography view doesn't work without it
>> - jhead:  some features of NarrativeWeb (or gramplets?) don't work without
>> it
>> - imagemagick:  some features of NarrativeWeb (or gramplets?) don't work
>> without it
>> - python-pyexiv2: some features of NarrativeWeb (or gramplets?) don't work
>> without it
>>
>> (I understand some of these packages are not the best solution, but that
>> is a topic for another thread for us to fix in 3.3.1 or 3.4, or...etc...)
>>
>> So back to the question:  now that we know that Ubuntu doesn't install
>> "Recommends" nor "Suggests" by default when installing the Gramps 3.3.0 .deb
>> package, why not make all of these "Depends" and have Gramps work as people
>> expect when they install the 3.3.0 .deb file?  It would avoid us having to
>> tell people all time that in addition, they need to install x, y, and z.
>> And Aunt Betty will have things simply work to the best of our abilities
>> when she installs the Gramps .deb file.  No need to lurk on the gramps
>> mailing list to accidentally find out some additional packages are needed.
>>
>> Stéphane
>>
>>
>> 2011/6/15 Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2011/6/15 Stéphane Charette <[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>> 2011/6/12 Stéphane Charette <[hidden email]>
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is the thing:  after I installed the .deb on my new 11.04
>>>>> installation, none of the recommended packages were installed.  Not
>>>>> graphviz, not imagemagick, not osmgpsmap.  It is unfortunate that "Ubuntu
>>>>> Software Centre" -- the new default handler for .deb files seems to ignore
>>>>> the 'Recommends' and 'Suggests' fields.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd like to move all of the 'Recommends' to 'Depends', so graphviz
>>>>> reports, geography view, and NarWeb all work out-of-the-box.  Is that OK
>>>>> with everyone?  I'd then issue a 3.0.0-2 .deb package.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We've talked about the various dependencies, but I never got an answer
>>>> to my questions.  Please let me know if everyone is OK with this change, or
>>>> if I leave it alone.
>>>
>>> osmgpsmap and graphviz can be considered really needed for the full
>>> experience.
>>> imagemagick I would not do.
>>>
>>> Benny
>>>>
>>>> Stéphane
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content
>>>> authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image
>>>> Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking.
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>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Sincerely yours,
> Rob G. Healey
> "Always surround yourself with people that inspire you to
> greatness!"
>

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Re: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

DS Blank
In reply to this post by Stéphane Charette-2
> - jhead:  some features of NarrativeWeb (or gramplets?) don't work without
> it
> - imagemagick:  some features of NarrativeWeb (or gramplets?) don't work
> without it
> - python-pyexiv2: some features of NarrativeWeb (or gramplets?) don't work
> without it

As far as I know, all of these are just for the exif meta data
features of those plugins (just a couple).

If it were up to me, I would either:

1) Move exif meta data stuff to addons, and instruct people to how to
get what they need

2) Rewrite the exif meta data stuff to use few, and common, dependencies

-Doug

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Re: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

robhealey1
Hey Doug:

I am more than willing to do what is best for the whole group!  If it means moving my addon back into gramps-addons, removing the functions that requires the ImageMagick and Jhead dependencies, whatever it thought to be the best!

I liked having 'Edit Image Exif Metadata' being inside of Gramps, but it seems that it would be the best to remove it back into gramps-addons!

Please let me know what to do?

Sincerely yours,
Rob G. Healey


2011/6/15 Doug Blank <[hidden email]>
> - jhead:  some features of NarrativeWeb (or gramplets?) don't work without
> it
> - imagemagick:  some features of NarrativeWeb (or gramplets?) don't work
> without it
> - python-pyexiv2: some features of NarrativeWeb (or gramplets?) don't work
> without it

As far as I know, all of these are just for the exif meta data
features of those plugins (just a couple).

If it were up to me, I would either:

1) Move exif meta data stuff to addons, and instruct people to how to
get what they need

2) Rewrite the exif meta data stuff to use few, and common, dependencies

-Doug

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Rob G. Healey

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greatness!"


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Re: Fwd: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

Nick Hall-6
In reply to this post by robhealey1


On 15/06/11 04:29, Rob Healey wrote:
Dear John:

I truly did not understand about most of the image file types, and which one was the best!  It seems that everywhere that you look, jpeg was being used...

I like your idea about offering the user a choice of which file type to convert the unsupported file types into a supported type by using a drop down box...  I will do this....

I, also, didn't know that tiff was the industry standard for lossless format....  I will make this one the top choice in the drop down box...

This will be in the new gramplet for trunk....

BTW, I do not know anything about the exiv2 library?

pyexiv2 is just a python binding to exiv2.

For the delete functionality, can we use:

exiv2 delete <filename>

instead of jhead?  We wouldn't need the extra dependency, and it would handle all file types.

As far as the convert functionality is concerned, would this be better done outside of Gramps?

Nick.



Sincerely yours,
Rob G. Healey




On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 9:25 AM, John Ralls <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Jun 13, 2011, at 11:55 PM, Benny Malengier wrote:

> The reply of Rob for the entire list.
>
> Hope that clears up the dependencies.
>
> About jpg, apparently Rob choose to use that. He suggests to do png perhaps. Any suggestions to him what is best and how to set this (an options, just one default, ...).
>
> Benny
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Rob Healey <[hidden email]>
> Date: 2011/6/14
> Subject: Re: [Gramps-devel] package dependency changes for version 3.3.0
> To: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>
>
>
> Dear Benny:
>
> Hello, and how are you doing today?
>
> On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 1:14 PM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> 2011/6/12 Duncan Lithgow <[hidden email]>
> 2011/6/12 Nick Hall <[hidden email]>:
> ...
> > It uses convert to convert images into jpeg format and to remove exif tags
> > from images.  If it is not present, the convert functionality will not be
> > available and the delete functionality will use the pyexiv2 library instead.
>
> Yes, Nick, is correct!  Only if the ImageMagick and jhead are installed will some of the extra functionality become available to the user!
>
> ...
> > I'm not sure why we can't just use pyexiv2 to remove tags.  At the moment
> > the ImageMagick convert is used if available.  In addition jhead is called,
> > if available, to remove all non-image related sections from the jpeg.
> > Again, Rob should be able to clarify this.
>
> Yes, ImageMagick is used a lot if it is available and found on the system.  The convert program from IM, is a very easy to use software with no user interaction necessary except for pressing a button.
>
> Jhead is used for erasing exif metadata, and for re-initializing the exif metadata headers once the exif metadata has been removed...
>
> Rob, anyone, why are we removing any information from images? How is Gramps to know if I want that info there? Also why would we encourage using jpg format - is a lossy format and therefore often not really appropriate for archival image files.
>
> As stated earlier, the software doesn't removing any information or exif metadata without the user choosing to do it.  The user is also given a warning dialog to make sure that they understand what is happening and they can cancel it if they want to!
>
> The only reason that I chose to convert images to jpeg, it is the most widely used format for storing Exif metadata!  I could change it to converting to .png format if you think it would be a better option?
>
>
> Excuse me if I'm wildly ignorant of this exif tool, I haven't tried it yet.
>
> Yes, you should try it.
> You see an image and the exif data. It's not we who add jpg, it is the user.  You can change the exif data if you click some buttons and enter some things.  Pretty straightforward.
>
> If you are going to make the attempt to try it, I would do it in trunk as it has the easiest editing interface!
>
> Please let me know what you think!
>
> I am not sure how much you know about exif metadata, but most modern camera and cell phones add extra information about the image hidden inside the image!  This information is called Exif metadata...
>
> This information that can be held within can be changed and saved back to the image.  It can be completely removed also...
>
> Also within the image, a thumbnail(s) can be held as well.  This hidden information can increase the size of the image.  Especially the hidden thumbnails...
>
> One of the greatest things that can be stored within an image is the GPS Latitude/ Longitude Coordinates.  These coordinates can be read and referenced to show where the image was taken using the Geography system already in use in Gramps!
>
> This is one of my next challenges that I would like to accomplish...

The Exiv2 library supports most image file types, so Gramps should, too: If *and only if* the user wants to edit metadata on an unsupported type should Gramps *offer* to convert to a supported type, and present the user with a listbox to select the type. Preference, if any, should be TIFF, the industry standard format for lossless image storage (and, by the way, where EXIF originated).

What does jhead do that Exiv2 doesn't?

Regards,
John Ralls
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Re: Fwd: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

Chris Darnell
> I truly did not understand about most of the image file types, and which one
> was the best!  It seems that everywhere that you look, jpeg was being
> used...
> I like your idea about offering the user a choice of which file type to
> convert the unsupported file types into a supported type by using a drop
> down box...  I will do this....
> I, also, didn't know that tiff was the industry standard for lossless
> format....  I will make this one the top choice in the drop down box...
> This will be in the new gramplet for trunk....

Hi Nick,

Although Tiff might have been an industry standard for many years, I seriously
hope that you will reconsider that decision. Tiff, by defaul, is not
compressed in
any way, and thus the images will be quite large.

PNG by comparison compresses fairly well and is widely supported. Note that
although PNG is compressed, it is still lossless in the same manner as ZIP is.

~ Chris Darnell

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Re: Fwd: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

Nick Hall-6


On 16/06/11 19:00, Chris Darnell wrote:

>> I truly did not understand about most of the image file types, and which one
>> was the best!  It seems that everywhere that you look, jpeg was being
>> used...
>> I like your idea about offering the user a choice of which file type to
>> convert the unsupported file types into a supported type by using a drop
>> down box...  I will do this....
>> I, also, didn't know that tiff was the industry standard for lossless
>> format....  I will make this one the top choice in the drop down box...
>> This will be in the new gramplet for trunk....
> Hi Nick,
>
> Although Tiff might have been an industry standard for many years, I seriously
> hope that you will reconsider that decision. Tiff, by defaul, is not
> compressed in
> any way, and thus the images will be quite large.
>
> PNG by comparison compresses fairly well and is widely supported. Note that
> although PNG is compressed, it is still lossless in the same manner as ZIP is.

I agree.  We should support all formats that include Exif data.

At the moment, the Edit Exif Image Metadata gramplet has a button that
converts a media file into jpeg format.   The request was for Rob to
provide a choice of formats instead of just jpeg (this should include png).

The issue was that this button required an extra package dependency
(ImageMagick).

Nick.


> ~ Chris Darnell
>
>

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Re: package dependency changes for version 3.3.0

Nick Hall-6
In reply to this post by robhealey1
Rob,

I think that you should be able to keep the Edit Image Exif Metadata gramplet as core plugin.

Both the Edit Image Exif Metadata gramplet and the Metadata Viewer gramplet use the pyexiv2 package, so perhaps this should be made "Depends".

You should be able to use exiv2 instead of jhead without any loss of functionality.  Perhaps it would be better to remove the "Convert" button so as to keep the package dependencies to a minimum?

Nick.


On 16/06/11 07:15, Rob Healey wrote:
Hey Doug:

I am more than willing to do what is best for the whole group!  If it means moving my addon back into gramps-addons, removing the functions that requires the ImageMagick and Jhead dependencies, whatever it thought to be the best!

I liked having 'Edit Image Exif Metadata' being inside of Gramps, but it seems that it would be the best to remove it back into gramps-addons!

Please let me know what to do?

Sincerely yours,
Rob G. Healey


2011/6/15 Doug Blank <[hidden email]>
> - jhead:  some features of NarrativeWeb (or gramplets?) don't work without
> it
> - imagemagick:  some features of NarrativeWeb (or gramplets?) don't work
> without it
> - python-pyexiv2: some features of NarrativeWeb (or gramplets?) don't work
> without it

As far as I know, all of these are just for the exif meta data
features of those plugins (just a couple).

If it were up to me, I would either:

1) Move exif meta data stuff to addons, and instruct people to how to
get what they need

2) Rewrite the exif meta data stuff to use few, and common, dependencies

-Doug

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greatness!"

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