Recording web based information

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Recording web based information

Keith Jacobs

My one name study research has unearthed two web based obituaries for individuals that I have no other details of.

How do others record such details in Sources, Citations and Repositories in Gramps?

The internet is so fast that I am looking at keeping the data entry to a minimum whilst retaining as much information as possible.

Regards
Keith

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Re: Recording web based information

Brad Rogers
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 14:51:55 +0200
"Keith Jacobs" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Keith,

>How do others record such details in Sources, Citations and
>Repositories in Gramps?

I would make the _site_ both a source and a repository.  I would make the
specific _page_ a citation for the event.

>The internet is so fast that I am looking at keeping the data entry to a
>minimum whilst retaining as much information as possible.

Given the above, I'd probably download a copy of the page(s) and any
images to keep locally - noting the fact in the citation for each event.

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Re: Recording web based information

Rich Lakey
I agree with Brad.  Web sites can disappear or move.  Example: Find A Grave is a source, the individual pages are citations. I include the link in the citation but also copy the page to a note with minimal editing that is included in the citation. As most information in a find a grave site is secondary information I also include a copy of a grave stone image in the citation as a stone is a primary source for me.
Rich

On 07/26/2017 09:30 AM, Brad Rogers wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 14:51:55 +0200
"Keith Jacobs" [hidden email] wrote:

Hello Keith,

How do others record such details in Sources, Citations and
Repositories in Gramps?
I would make the _site_ both a source and a repository.  I would make the
specific _page_ a citation for the event.

The internet is so fast that I am looking at keeping the data entry to a
minimum whilst retaining as much information as possible.
Given the above, I'd probably download a copy of the page(s) and any
images to keep locally - noting the fact in the citation for each event.



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Re: Recording web based information

Ron Johnson
In reply to this post by Keith Jacobs
On 07/26/2017 09:30 AM, Brad Rogers wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 14:51:55 +0200
> "Keith Jacobs" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello Keith,
>
>> How do others record such details in Sources, Citations and
>> Repositories in Gramps?
> I would make the _site_ both a source and a repository.  I would make the
> specific _page_ a citation for the event.
>
>> The internet is so fast that I am looking at keeping the data entry to a
>> minimum whilst retaining as much information as possible.
> Given the above, I'd probably download a copy of the page(s) and any
> images to keep locally - noting the fact in the citation for each event.

I either "print to PDF" or "wget -mk" or "wget -p".

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Re: Recording web based information

Dave Scheipers
In reply to this post by Rich Lakey
A note about FindAGrave.com.  I have the search pages bookmarked so rarely use the home page. But using it from another computer the other day I noticed they are revamping and have started a mirror site of all their records. Not sure if all the links we've been accumulating will still be valid in the not so distant future.

On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 11:14 AM, Rich <[hidden email]> wrote:
I agree with Brad.  Web sites can disappear or move.  Example: Find A Grave is a source, the individual pages are citations. I include the link in the citation but also copy the page to a note with minimal editing that is included in the citation. As most information in a find a grave site is secondary information I also include a copy of a grave stone image in the citation as a stone is a primary source for me.
Rich

On 07/26/2017 09:30 AM, Brad Rogers wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 14:51:55 +0200
"Keith Jacobs" [hidden email] wrote:

Hello Keith,

How do others record such details in Sources, Citations and
Repositories in Gramps?
I would make the _site_ both a source and a repository.  I would make the
specific _page_ a citation for the event.

The internet is so fast that I am looking at keeping the data entry to a
minimum whilst retaining as much information as possible.
Given the above, I'd probably download a copy of the page(s) and any
images to keep locally - noting the fact in the citation for each event.



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Re: Recording web based information

Brad Rogers
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 15:13:54 -0400
Dave Scheipers <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Dave,

>Not sure if all the links we've been accumulating will still be
>valid in the not so distant future.

Quite possibly not.  That's one of the reasons for keeping a local
copy.  I also date my citations.  That way, I know at least when the
citation's URL was valid.

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Re: Recording web based information

Dave Scheipers
For the actual grave record I use the memorial number in the citation which will (should) be valid. But for the cemetery's place record, I have included a link to the cemetery page which probably need to be updated.

Dave

On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 3:46 PM, Brad Rogers <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 15:13:54 -0400
Dave Scheipers <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Dave,

>Not sure if all the links we've been accumulating will still be
>valid in the not so distant future.

Quite possibly not.  That's one of the reasons for keeping a local
copy.  I also date my citations.  That way, I know at least when the
citation's URL was valid.

--
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         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
I don't believe you have to be an idiot to get somewhere these days
Bombsite Boy - The Adverts

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Re: Recording web based information

meikamona
In reply to this post by Keith Jacobs

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Re: Recording web based information

Rich Lakey
Melkamona I found your link very interesting reading.
As the original poster Keith also brought up repository, I have never used the repository. I would suppose the repository could be a local library or the INTERNET. But I download these items to my computer, so I guess my computer is the repository.
Currently I have became sidetracked by a book "HISTORY OF THE DESCENDANTS OF WILLIAM KENNEDY AND HIS WIFE MARY OR MARIAN HENDERSON" compiled by Henry B. Ashmead in 1882.
Since I have downloaded the book in PDF and TXT I see no need to specify the repository. Same with birth and death certificates. I have managed to have copies download from the internet or from my dads collection of certified records he sent off for. I am scanning them into my computer but keeping the originals. Perhaps I should be using my tub file as the repository for those. I guess I have never understood the repository.  
The example I had earlier of Find A Grave, once I have the web page saved as a document on my computer, is my computer not the repository? With a link to where I found it? And keeping the Find A Grave Memorial # in case the page changes.
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Re: Recording web based information

enno
Hello Rich,

> As the original poster Keith also brought up repository, I have never used
> the repository. I would suppose the repository could be a local library or
> the INTERNET. But I download these items to my computer, so I guess my
> computer is the repository.
No, it's not. In principle, the repository is where the original, which
may be a transcribed index of some real document, was found, and you
mention it so that other genealogists, who can't access the items that
sit on your computer, can verify the results of your research, or expand
on them.

> Since I have downloaded the book in PDF and TXT I see no need to specify the
> repository.
See above. You may need the repository to find other books on the same
subject too.

> The example I had earlier of Find A Grave, once I have the web page saved as
> a document on my computer, is my computer not the repository?
No, unless you give the whole world full access to your computer, and
make sure that we will all be able to access your documents when you
die, or your computer dies, whatever comes first.

Some sources may reside in a private archive, like a bookshelf in your
home, and in that case, you can indeed declare those as sitting in a
repository named after that. I hope it's still not just your computer
then, because computers die faster than paper.

cheers,

Enno


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Re: Recording web based information

Ron Johnson
In reply to this post by Rich Lakey
On 07/27/2017 01:51 PM, Enno Borgsteede wrote:
[snip]
>> The example I had earlier of Find A Grave, once I have the web page saved as
>> a document on my computer, is my computer not the repository?
> No, unless you give the whole world full access to your computer, and make
> sure that we will all be able to access your documents when you die, or
> your computer dies, whatever comes first.

Or a .gpkg of (a slice of) your Gramps tree!  :)

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Re: Recording web based information

enno
Op 27-07-17 om 21:17 schreef Ron Johnson:

> On 07/27/2017 01:51 PM, Enno Borgsteede wrote:
> [snip]
>>> The example I had earlier of Find A Grave, once I have the web page
>>> saved as
>>> a document on my computer, is my computer not the repository?
>> No, unless you give the whole world full access to your computer, and
>> make sure that we will all be able to access your documents when you
>> die, or your computer dies, whatever comes first.
>
> Or a .gpkg of (a slice of) your Gramps tree!  :)
>
Yes, but there may be a copyright problem then, and also with file
sharing, because many sites think of their scans as their property. And
that even includes sites that provide free access, like FamilySearch.

I have scans of German documents that can't be distributed in Europe,
and can only be accessed if you pay to the German church archive, or
find someone in the US to read the proper LDS film for you, like a good
friend on this list did for me.

cheers,

Enno


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Re: Recording web based information

Dave Scheipers
In reply to this post by Ron Johnson
Hi Ron,

I have downloaded quite a few PDF files of vital records etc. They are
stored on my computer with their own media records that I attach to
the source record. But I still attach the repository record to show
where I got the PDF; Google Books and Internet Archive being the most
common.

Granted, having a source being a website like FindAGrave.com or
BillionGraves.com, the repository may be redundant but by adding their
repository, you are being consistent across all your sources.

Dave

On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 3:17 PM, Ron Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 07/27/2017 01:51 PM, Enno Borgsteede wrote:
> [snip]
>>>
>>> The example I had earlier of Find A Grave, once I have the web page saved
>>> as
>>> a document on my computer, is my computer not the repository?
>>
>> No, unless you give the whole world full access to your computer, and make
>> sure that we will all be able to access your documents when you die, or your
>> computer dies, whatever comes first.
>
>
> Or a .gpkg of (a slice of) your Gramps tree!  :)
>
> --
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>
>
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Re: Recording web based information

Rich Lakey
In reply to this post by enno
I'm a bit dense, so have had some trouble understanding the purpose of a repository.  But your explanation of it telling others where they might find it makes more sense than multi-page descriptions.  I've thought that by having the full text in Gramps there is no need for further reference. Thank you.
Now if I understand correctly,
I am working with a book I found on the internet "History of the Descendants of William Kennedy and his wife Mary or Marian Henderson"

source:
Title: History of the Descendants of William Kennedy and his wife Mary or Marian Henderson
Author: Elias Davidson Kennedy
Pub. Info: Press of Henry B. Ashmead
Repository: Title: New York Public Library   Call Number: b5247581  Type: Library

Citation:
Source: History of the Descendants of William Kennedy and his wife Mary or Marian Henderson
 Date 1881
Volume/Page:  William Tennent / Pg 76
Note: Text copied from page 76
Gallery: PDF of the whole book

Repository:
Name: New York Public Library
Web Search: https://archive.org/details/historyofdescend00kenn
 
There is no copyright

From this info a person would have all the text available in my Database with no need for further hunting. But if they desire they can find it on the web or find it at the New York Public Library.

So I now have one repository
Rich

On 07/27/2017 01:51 PM, Enno Borgsteede wrote:
Hello Rich,

As the original poster Keith also brought up repository, I have never used
the repository. I would suppose the repository could be a local library or
the INTERNET. But I download these items to my computer, so I guess my
computer is the repository.
No, it's not. In principle, the repository is where the original, which may be a transcribed index of some real document, was found, and you mention it so that other genealogists, who can't access the items that sit on your computer, can verify the results of your research, or expand on them.

Since I have downloaded the book in PDF and TXT I see no need to specify the
repository.
See above. You may need the repository to find other books on the same subject too.

The example I had earlier of Find A Grave, once I have the web page saved as
a document on my computer, is my computer not the repository?
No, unless you give the whole world full access to your computer, and make sure that we will all be able to access your documents when you die, or your computer dies, whatever comes first.

Some sources may reside in a private archive, like a bookshelf in your home, and in that case, you can indeed declare those as sitting in a repository named after that. I hope it's still not just your computer then, because computers die faster than paper.

cheers,

Enno


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Re: Recording web based information

Dave Scheipers
Hi Rich,

Looking at the record, the copyright would be 1881

In your repository record, you may want to create a separate
repository for Internet Archive. But the main thing you will want to
do is to find a way to have the URL to the archive.org page  NOT be in
the shared portion of the repository but in the Reference Information
section along with the call number. Having it in the shared section
you would need to create unique repositories for each download even if
another book came from the NYPL via archive.org.

On a side note, archive.org pdf downloads most often will have the
book page and the pdf page coincide. PDF's from google books do not.
Any time I make reference to a page number for the book I'll also
include (pdf:##) for easy reference to finding the page again in the
pdf file.

Dave

On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 4:23 PM, Rich <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm a bit dense, so have had some trouble understanding the purpose of a
> repository.  But your explanation of it telling others where they might find
> it makes more sense than multi-page descriptions.  I've thought that by
> having the full text in Gramps there is no need for further reference. Thank
> you.
> Now if I understand correctly,
> I am working with a book I found on the internet "History of the Descendants
> of William Kennedy and his wife Mary or Marian Henderson"
>
> source:
> Title: History of the Descendants of William Kennedy and his wife Mary or
> Marian Henderson
> Author: Elias Davidson Kennedy
> Pub. Info: Press of Henry B. Ashmead
> Repository: Title: New York Public Library   Call Number: b5247581  Type:
> Library
>
> Citation:
> Source: History of the Descendants of William Kennedy and his wife Mary or
> Marian Henderson
>  Date 1881
> Volume/Page:  William Tennent / Pg 76
> Note: Text copied from page 76
> Gallery: PDF of the whole book
>
> Repository:
> Name: New York Public Library
> Web Search: https://archive.org/details/historyofdescend00kenn
>
> There is no copyright
>
> From this info a person would have all the text available in my Database
> with no need for further hunting. But if they desire they can find it on the
> web or find it at the New York Public Library.
>
> So I now have one repository
> Rich
>
> On 07/27/2017 01:51 PM, Enno Borgsteede wrote:
>
> Hello Rich,
>
> As the original poster Keith also brought up repository, I have never used
> the repository. I would suppose the repository could be a local library or
> the INTERNET. But I download these items to my computer, so I guess my
> computer is the repository.
>
> No, it's not. In principle, the repository is where the original, which may
> be a transcribed index of some real document, was found, and you mention it
> so that other genealogists, who can't access the items that sit on your
> computer, can verify the results of your research, or expand on them.
>
> Since I have downloaded the book in PDF and TXT I see no need to specify the
> repository.
>
> See above. You may need the repository to find other books on the same
> subject too.
>
> The example I had earlier of Find A Grave, once I have the web page saved as
> a document on my computer, is my computer not the repository?
>
> No, unless you give the whole world full access to your computer, and make
> sure that we will all be able to access your documents when you die, or your
> computer dies, whatever comes first.
>
> Some sources may reside in a private archive, like a bookshelf in your home,
> and in that case, you can indeed declare those as sitting in a repository
> named after that. I hope it's still not just your computer then, because
> computers die faster than paper.
>
> cheers,
>
> Enno
>
>
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>
>
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>
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Re: Recording web based information

Ron Johnson
In reply to this post by Ron Johnson
All my files are attached to citations, too.

On 07/27/2017 03:02 PM, Dave Scheipers wrote:

> Hi Ron,
>
> I have downloaded quite a few PDF files of vital records etc. They are
> stored on my computer with their own media records that I attach to
> the source record. But I still attach the repository record to show
> where I got the PDF; Google Books and Internet Archive being the most
> common.
>
> Granted, having a source being a website like FindAGrave.com or
> BillionGraves.com, the repository may be redundant but by adding their
> repository, you are being consistent across all your sources.
>
> Dave
>
> On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 3:17 PM, Ron Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 07/27/2017 01:51 PM, Enno Borgsteede wrote:
>> [snip]
>>>> The example I had earlier of Find A Grave, once I have the web page saved
>>>> as
>>>> a document on my computer, is my computer not the repository?
>>> No, unless you give the whole world full access to your computer, and make
>>> sure that we will all be able to access your documents when you die, or your
>>> computer dies, whatever comes first.
>>
>> Or a .gpkg of (a slice of) your Gramps tree!  :)
>>

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