Sort order of non-latin characters in Gramps

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Re: Sort order of non-latin characters in Gra

StoltHD

Nick...
On a Norwegian keyboard, we use ALT+^ and then the char "o" or "O" to write the "ö" and Ö we also use the key combo ALT+^ for other Swedish Characters...

tir. 3. des. 2019 kl. 15:41 skrev StoltHD <[hidden email]>:
I use Windows 10, and no, I have not configured any compose key?  I dont even know what that are or where to find it
This is a "plain" install 5.1.1 with the mongodb module enabled (Works fine, only the "first read" that is a little delayed)...

Jaran

tir. 3. des. 2019 kl. 11:56 skrev Nick Hall via Gramps-users <[hidden email]>:
On 02/12/2019 16:00, StoltHD wrote:
> There is a SoundEX gramplet, but I have never thought about it...

See:

1768: Improve soundex tool.  Integrate better with Gramps.

https://gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=1768


>
> But in the filter GRamplet I can't even type the character "ö" and "ä"
> ... But when I search "Go" I do not get "Göransson" as part of the
> result...
> Does not matter if I use English or Norwegian Language for Gramps.


What OS are you using?

Have you configured the compose key?


Nick.




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Re: Sort order of non-latin characters in Gra

GRAMPS - User mailing list
On 03/12/2019 14:53, StoltHD wrote:
> Nick...
> On a Norwegian keyboard, we use ALT+^ and then the char "o" or "O" to
> write the "ö" and Ö we also use the key combo ALT+^ for other Swedish
> Characters...

On an English keyboard I can type Compose+" o and Compose+" a to get ö
and ä.  I can enter these non-latin characters into the sidebar filter
gramplets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compose_key

Perhaps Windows has something similar?


Nick.




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Re: Sort order of non-latin characters in Gra

StoltHD
Usually that is the ALT or CTRL key for Windows.

tir. 3. des. 2019 kl. 16:32 skrev Nick Hall via Gramps-users <[hidden email]>:
On 03/12/2019 14:53, StoltHD wrote:
> Nick...
> On a Norwegian keyboard, we use ALT+^ and then the char "o" or "O" to
> write the "ö" and Ö we also use the key combo ALT+^ for other Swedish
> Characters...

On an English keyboard I can type Compose+" o and Compose+" a to get ö
and ä.  I can enter these non-latin characters into the sidebar filter
gramplets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compose_key

Perhaps Windows has something similar?


Nick.




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Re: Sort order of non-latin characters in Gra

GRAMPS - User mailing list
Well... technically similar but functionally unusable.

The Windows feature DOES use the Alt but you have have memorized the ASCII decimal values for the various characters... and you have use it with the numeric keypad. 

(If you have a laptop without ten-key, buy an external keypad or use the onscreen virtual keyboard intended for touchscreens)

For the ö (char 241), you press&hold Alt while keying in 241, releasing the Alt commits the keystroke.

Not nearly so graceful as the Compose key. 

Personally, I open Word, use their Insert Symbol feature & paste into Gramps.

-Brian

On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 10:36, StoltHD


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Re: Sort order of non-latin characters in Gra

Dave Scheipers
I created a note record with Type "To Do"

As I find I need these characters, I add them and their nearby sister
characters to the note record.  Whenever I need them, they are in the
To Do gramplet on Gramp's Desktop.

Copy and Paste.  Easy-peasy.

Dave

On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 12:40 PM Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Well... technically similar but functionally unusable.
>
> The Windows feature DOES use the Alt but you have have memorized the ASCII decimal values for the various characters... and you have use it with the numeric keypad.
>
> (If you have a laptop without ten-key, buy an external keypad or use the onscreen virtual keyboard intended for touchscreens)
>
> For the ö (char 241), you press&hold Alt while keying in 241, releasing the Alt commits the keystroke.
>
> Not nearly so graceful as the Compose key.
>
> Personally, I open Word, use their Insert Symbol feature & paste into Gramps.
>
> -Brian
>
> On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 10:36, StoltHD
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> --
> Gramps-users mailing list
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> https://gramps-project.org
>
> --
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Re: Sort order of non-latin characters in Gra

victorengel
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - User mailing list
On a Mac, you just hold down the O key and wait for a popup to appear where you can choose from ö, ø, etc. It is such an obvious way to enter characters (iphone and ipad work similarly) I'm surprised others do not have a similar system. Unfortunately, this built-in feature of the OS is defeated in some software. I don't recall if Gramps is such an example (I haven't used it in a while).

On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 9:32 AM Nick Hall via Gramps-users <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 03/12/2019 14:53, StoltHD wrote:
> Nick...
> On a Norwegian keyboard, we use ALT+^ and then the char "o" or "O" to
> write the "ö" and Ö we also use the key combo ALT+^ for other Swedish
> Characters...

On an English keyboard I can type Compose+" o and Compose+" a to get ö
and ä.  I can enter these non-latin characters into the sidebar filter
gramplets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compose_key

Perhaps Windows has something similar?


Nick.




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Re: Sort order ... in Gramps

adrian.davey
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - User mailing list
Nick, could you please give us a little bit more specific advice here?

Particularly if we are on GrampsAIO, what is the recommended method to:

a) install the pyICU module; and

b) make it available to gramps?

Also, does your comment that the locale needs to be consistent with the
language setting mean that an English speaker who happens to have the
system setting as the Windows default "English (United States)" (which
supposedly only affects programs that do not support Unicode, at least
on W10) might suffer as a consequence, and may be better off changing to
a locale (if someone can recommend one to me!) that is more aware of
extended characters?

Adrian Davey

On 2019-12-03 21:45, Nick Hall via Gramps-users wrote:
> The sort order in the UI is determined by your locale.  If available,
> the pyICU module is used for sorting.  It is strongly recommended that
> you install this if your data includes non-latin characters. Reports,
> for example the complete individual report, should use a locale
> consistent with the language setting.  The locale used for sorting
> cannot be set independently from the language.
>


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Re: Sort order ... in Gramps

GRAMPS - User mailing list
On 04/12/2019 09:25, Adrian Davey wrote:
> Nick, could you please give us a little bit more specific advice here?
>
> Particularly if we are on GrampsAIO, what is the recommended method to:
>
> a) install the pyICU module; and
>
> b) make it available to gramps?


I think that it is included the Windows AIO and Mac bundles.

For Linux, the package will be called something like python-pyicu.

To verify that it is installed, type "import icu" from a python command
line.  If it is not installed you will get an error.


>
> Also, does your comment that the locale needs to be consistent with
> the language setting mean that an English speaker who happens to have
> the system setting as the Windows default "English (United States)"
> (which supposedly only affects programs that do not support Unicode,
> at least on W10) might suffer as a consequence, and may be better off
> changing to a locale (if someone can recommend one to me!) that is
> more aware of extended characters?


It should be set for you when you select a language.  So if you generate
a report in Swedish then it should use a Swedish sort order.


Nick.




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Re: Sort order ... in Gramps

GRAMPS - User mailing list
Adrian,

I noticed from previous postings that you have a very structured approach to questions. You also pointed out information was missing from the manual & it needed to be tweaked?

Good! We still need your help to make things better. If you got an answer, could you tweak the Wiki so others won't have to ask? The wiki needs more contributors. 

I noticed you did some nice wiki additions on sorting 2015. We could use more of them. I've only been a user for a few years, commenting here (after lurking a while) and contributing on wiki for a year last October (very poorly at the start). I still owe a lot of work for the value Gramps has given.

Gramps is massive too but most people seem to prefer our volunteer developers write new code (and give us feature bullet points) than documentation. Nick will keep the program development on course but the volunteers can also play with forks & plugins. This is supposed to be a fun hobby!

-Brian

On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 4:32, Nick Hall via Gramps-users
On 04/12/2019 09:25, Adrian Davey wrote:
> Nick, could you please give us a little bit more specific advice here?
>
> Particularly if we are on GrampsAIO, what is the recommended method to:
>
> a) install the pyICU module; and
>
> b) make it available to gramps?


I think that it is included the Windows AIO and Mac bundles.

For Linux, the package will be called something like python-pyicu.

To verify that it is installed, type "import icu" from a python command line.  If it is not installed you will get an error.


>
> Also, does your comment that the locale needs to be consistent with
> the language setting mean that an English speaker who happens to have
> the system setting as the Windows default "English (United States)"
> (which supposedly only affects programs that do not support Unicode,
> at least on W10) might suffer as a consequence, and may be better off
> changing to a locale (if someone can recommend one to me!) that is
> more aware of extended characters?


It should be set for you when you select a language.  So if you generate a report in Swedish then it should use a Swedish sort order.


Nick.


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Re: Sort order of non-latin characters in Gramps

Tim Lyons
Administrator
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - User mailing list
GRAMPS - User mailing list wrote
> The sort order in the UI is determined by your locale.  If available,
> the pyICU module is used for sorting.  It is strongly recommended that
> you install this if your data includes non-latin characters.  Reports,
> for example the complete individual report, should use a locale
> consistent with the language setting.  The locale used for sorting
> cannot be set independently from the language.

(1) Is the pyICU module actually used for sorting throughout Gramps, I
thought it was only used in some specifically coded modules?

(2) the pyICU module allows for different collation specifiers within a
particular language, for example "fr@collation=phonebook" [1] . Last time I
tried specifying a locale that included something like a collation
specifier, I seem to recall that the locale tripped up some parts of the
Gramps logic (or parts of the posix? modules underlying). I didn't bother
with this very much as I thought it was such an obscure requirement that not
many people would understand it and even fewer want it. Do you know whether
the collation specifiers work now?


[1] http://userguide.icu-project.org/locale



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