Startup person selection

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Startup person selection

Peter Flynn
Is it possible to configure Gramps so that it starts up in the same
place that it was shut down? That is, in the same pane with the same
person active as it was when I clicked Quit.

P


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Re: Startup person selection

GRAMPS - User mailing list
Saving the View is an option in the Edit:Preferences... General tab. 

But that is system-wide, irrespective of whatever Tree is loaded.  The Tree doesn't store the last open record in each of the Views.  It restarts on the Home person and with a clean Clipboard.

However, re-sorting on the Last Changed column of the People View approximates that functionality.


On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 16:01, Peter Flynn
Is it possible to configure Gramps so that it starts up in the same
place that it was shut down? That is, in the same pane with the same
person active as it was when I clicked Quit.

P


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Re: Startup person selection

Brad Rogers
In reply to this post by Peter Flynn
On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 21:59:49 +0000
Peter Flynn <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Peter,

>Is it possible to configure Gramps so that it starts up in the same
>place that it was shut down? That is, in the same pane with the same
>person active as it was when I clicked Quit.

Yes, but probably not in the way you really want it to ;

Set Gramps to use "Last View Displayed" in Prefs/General tab and also
set Home Person as the one you want to be displayed.  Then, when closing
Gramps down, ensure you're in the view mode you want to see when you
restart Gramps.

--
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         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad        never immediately apparent"
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Re: Startup person selection

Ron Johnson
In reply to this post by Peter Flynn
On 12/22/18 3:59 PM, Peter Flynn wrote:
> Is it possible to configure Gramps so that it starts up in the same
> place that it was shut down? That is, in the same pane with the same
> person active as it was when I clicked Quit.

In addition to configuring Last View, you'll need to manually bookmark the
current Object.  Then on restart go to that bookmark.

--
Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.


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Re: Startup person selection

Peter Flynn
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - User mailing list
On 22/12/2018 22:12, [hidden email] wrote:
> Saving the View is an option in the Edit:Preferences... General tab. 
>
> But that is system-wide, irrespective of whatever Tree is loaded.  The
> Tree doesn't store the last open record in each of the Views.  It
> restarts on the Home person and with a clean Clipboard.
>
> However, re-sorting on the Last Changed column of the People View
> approximates that functionality.

Thank you all for the help.I had somehow missed the Remember Last View
option.

I found Last Changed in Configure View, so I checked it, but it needed
to be slid in from the RH side as the Death Date column was set by
default to some massive width.

But I still have to remember which family name I was working on, as the
sort appears only to sort within name.

P


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Re: Startup person selection

Peter Flynn
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - User mailing list
On 22/12/2018 22:12, [hidden email] wrote:> But that is
system-wide, irrespective of whatever Tree is loaded.
> The Tree doesn't store the last open record in each of the Views.
> It restarts on the Home person and with a clean Clipboard.

Where is the official place to enter a request for a full "restart
exactly where you left it" setting?

P


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Re: Startup person selection

Rich Lakey
I change the "home Person" to where I want to resume besides having
remember last view set. Always works.

On 12/22/18 5:03 PM, Peter Flynn wrote:

> On 22/12/2018 22:12, [hidden email] wrote:> But that is
> system-wide, irrespective of whatever Tree is loaded.
>> The Tree doesn't store the last open record in each of the Views.
>> It restarts on the Home person and with a clean Clipboard.
> Where is the official place to enter a request for a full "restart
> exactly where you left it" setting?
>
> P
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> https://gramps-project.org
>


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Re: Startup person selection

Rich Lakey
In reply to this post by Peter Flynn
I change the "home Person" to where I want to resume besides having
remember last view set. Always works.

On 12/22/18 5:03 PM, Peter Flynn wrote:

> On 22/12/2018 22:12,[hidden email]  wrote:> But that is
> system-wide, irrespective of whatever Tree is loaded.
>> The Tree doesn't store the last open record in each of the Views.
>> It restarts on the Home person and with a clean Clipboard.
> Where is the official place to enter a request for a full "restart
> exactly where you left it" setting?
>
> P
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> https://gramps-project.org
>


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Re: Startup person selection

GRAMPS - User mailing list
Bookmarking and setting the Home person ARE an option to restoring the last worksession IF you knew you were going to exit and IF you remember to do the extra step.

However, I find the Last Changed sort (with the Grouping turned off) in the People View takes less forethought & discipline.

Yes, it's aggravating that the last column has that excessive width.  But one of the fixes listed in the 5.0.1 version changelog is that Gramps will remember changes to column widths.  

And I find that it is most effective to size the Last Changed column width to only a single Character wide in the 1st column. I only rarely need to know the actual timestamp... but frequently need the header clickable to change the sort ordering.

As a parting thought, if you know the last time you did was add a Note or Citation, you can use a Last Changed column in those Views too. 

But they require the extra steps of working up the Reference links until you get to the Person level.  Then right-clicking that dialog and choosing the Make Active Person menu item. And THEN you have to back out of all the open windows and go back to the People or Relationship View.  Painful, but doable. 

Before you decide that it is worth putting in an official enhancement request to have the Tree file store the last open View, think about all the opportunities for that to cause a failure and render the tree un-loadable. What happens if the reference record were to become unavailable through corruption, external editing or a repair tool? 

Putting safe fail-back handling into a program is a never-ending task. Is there enough value in a feature only used once a session? I could always find new ways to force a failure in a such a fragile structure. Why add complexity when there's an easily accessible workaround? 

I'd hope the developers work on features that have wider impact... like simplifying source attachment to mutiple people in a family grouping (similar to what FamilySearch does when attaching a Census record - with souced & dated Residence events to a Family members or adding Siblings with a circa birthdate/state)... Or a 'first contact' form-eMail report with a custom generated DeepConnections section in non-proportional font Pedigree form with both spouses and the common ancestor couple.


On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 18:15, Rich Lakey
I change the "home Person" to where I want to resume besides having
remember last view set. Always works.

On 12/22/18 5:03 PM, Peter Flynn wrote:

> On 22/12/2018 22:12,[hidden email]  wrote:> But that is
> system-wide, irrespective of whatever Tree is loaded.
>> The Tree doesn't store the last open record in each of the Views.
>> It restarts on the Home person and with a clean Clipboard.
> Where is the official place to enter a request for a full "restart
> exactly where you left it" setting?
>
> P

>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> https://gramps-project.org
>


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Re: Startup person selection

Peter Flynn
On 23/12/2018 02:05, Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users wrote:
> Bookmarking and setting the Home person ARE an option to restoring the
> last worksession IF you knew you were going to exit and IF you remember
> to do the extra step.

True. I was just looking at it from a usability perspective. With a
"remember this" setting turned on, you wouldn't need to remember to do
any of that. Yes, the discipline is good for your brain, and it's part
of a user's education, but in usability terms it's non-productive excise.

> However, I find the Last Changed sort (with the Grouping turned off) in
> the People View takes less forethought & discipline.

The problem seems to be that the Last Changed data is only sorted WITHIN
name. If I was working on a person in another surname group than my
default person, I would need to have remembered who it was, and then go
and open that name, and only then be able to sort by Last Changed. Or am
I missing something here?

> Yes, it's aggravating that the last column has that excessive width. 
> But one of the fixes listed in the 5.0.1 version changelog is that
> Gramps will remember changes to column widths. 

Final column maximised is a common default in many frameworks (and
another usability issue because users will not normally be aware of it
or understand it).

> And I find that it is most effective to size the Last Changed column
> width to only a single Character wide in the 1st column. I only rarely
> need to know the actual timestamp... but frequently need the header
> clickable to change the sort ordering.

Good trick, but how do you overcome the within-name problem above?

> As a parting thought, if you know the last time you did was add a Note
> or Citation, you can use a Last Changed column in those Views too.

Also true, but the user really shouldn't need to have to remember this.

> Painful, but doable. 

Yes. I just wanted to relieve the user of that pain :-)

Actually, do we know anything about the age demographic of Gramps users?
If they're retired like me, their short-term memory may be an issue for
them, and then remembering all the settings is likely to become a real
problem.

> Before you decide that it is worth putting in an official enhancement
> request to have the Tree file store the last open View, think about all
> the opportunities for that to cause a failure and render the tree
> un-loadable. What happens if the reference record were to become
> unavailable through corruption, external editing or a repair tool?

I'm well aware of the potential for failure, but a lot of other software
is capable of remembering what you were doing, and returning to it. I
don't think it is unachievable, but it may just be a low priority.

Is corruption really that common in Gramps? I have found it very robust
in day-to-day operation. I think if the user is concerned about the
stability of their file system, or their use of an external tool on the
database, then they are also likely to be aware of the potential for
affecting operations if they break something. Do many users externally
edit the database?

Obviously if they have broken something, then it may not open at all,
but in that case, any 'pick up where you left off' functionality is not
going to be relevant, and likely to be the last of their problems. The
data to enable this functionality would need to be written to a plain
data file on application exit, not stored in the database itself.
Perhaps it could then be sourced from the default startup config as the
final operation before opening for business. There are probably many
ways to prevent the functionality affecting things if they are already
broken.

In any event, if the reference record isn't there, a simple error
message saying so is sufficient ("pick up where you left off can't be
used because the record X99999 for Claus, Santa isn't in the database").
A missing record should not be a reason for rendering an otherwise
working database unusable: it's simply a missing record error (serious
in itself but it shouldn't break the database). I think I'm just not
wholly convinced by the argument that edge cases should prevent
mainstream usage.

> Putting safe fail-back handling into a program is a never-ending task.

Yes, and in this case there is a lot to remember: person, view, pane,
field location, and whatever else, and it all has to be updated every
time the user clicks on something. Gramps is already very good at
recovering from a system crash (eg power failure).

> Is there enough value in a feature only used once a session?

From the usability point of view I would say yes, as sessions are
probably a frequent occurrence (more than once a day?) unless the
majority of users have Gramps in sovereign posture (do we know?). I
think *especially* in terms of the infrequent user who may really not
want or be able to remember what they were doing in Gramps three weeks
ago or whenever.

> I could always find new ways to force a failure in a such a fragile
> structure.

Oh yes — my job for many years was breaking other people's software :-)

> Why add complexity when there's an easily accessible workaround?
I think my argument is that it's not actually easily accessible.

> I'd hope the developers work on features that have wider impact...

Yes, this is why it may well be put at the bottom of the list.

> like simplifying source attachment to multiple people in a family
> grouping (similar to what FamilySearch does when attaching a Census
> record - with sourced & dated Residence events to a Family members or
> adding Siblings with a circa birthdate/state)...

Yep. That's certainly higher priority.

> Or a 'first contact' form-eMail report with a custom generated
> DeepConnections section in non-proportional font Pedigree form with
> both spouses and the common ancestor couple.

I don't even begin to understand what this is at my early stage of use :-)

I have been treating my family tree work as a long-term usability review
of Gramps, so eventually I'll have a list of potential pinch-points, but
I am always conscious of the comments of my millenial family members on
software usability, which are often at odds with the classical
industrial scales. If attracting younger users to family tree creation
and maintenance is an issue, that mismatch is something that may need
attention.

P


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Re: Startup person selection

enno
Op 23-12-18 om 11:24 schreef Peter Flynn:
> On 23/12/2018 02:05, Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users wrote:
>> Bookmarking and setting the Home person ARE an option to restoring the
>> last worksession IF you knew you were going to exit and IF you remember
>> to do the extra step.
> True. I was just looking at it from a usability perspective. With a
> "remember this" setting turned on, you wouldn't need to remember to do
> any of that. Yes, the discipline is good for your brain, and it's part
> of a user's education, but in usability terms it's non-productive excise.

Exactly. And remember this could be any object that you'd selected when
you closed Gramps, meaning that it could, or should, be the selected
object in the current view, which you will see when you've configured
Gramps to start with that.

>
>> However, I find the Last Changed sort (with the Grouping turned off) in
>> the People View takes less forethought & discipline.
> The problem seems to be that the Last Changed data is only sorted WITHIN
> name. If I was working on a person in another surname group than my
> default person, I would need to have remembered who it was, and then go
> and open that name, and only then be able to sort by Last Changed. Or am
> I missing something here?

No, and it's sort of irrelevant, because it may also be an object that
you last looked at, without making any changes. And in that case, the
last changed date is no use.

> Obviously if they have broken something, then it may not open at all,
> but in that case, any 'pick up where you left off' functionality is not
> going to be relevant, and likely to be the last of their problems. The
> data to enable this functionality would need to be written to a plain
> data file on application exit, not stored in the database itself.
> Perhaps it could then be sourced from the default startup config as the
> final operation before opening for business. There are probably many
> ways to prevent the functionality affecting things if they are already
> broken.
>
> In any event, if the reference record isn't there, a simple error
> message saying so is sufficient ("pick up where you left off can't be
> used because the record X99999 for Claus, Santa isn't in the database").
> A missing record should not be a reason for rendering an otherwise
> working database unusable: it's simply a missing record error (serious
> in itself but it shouldn't break the database). I think I'm just not
> wholly convinced by the argument that edge cases should prevent
> mainstream usage.
Right again. It's still odd, and when you'd see an error like that, it
should be a reminder to do a consistency check (and repair) ASAP.
>> Putting safe fail-back handling into a program is a never-ending task.
> Yes, and in this case there is a lot to remember: person, view, pane,
> field location, and whatever else, and it all has to be updated every
> time the user clicks on something. Gramps is already very good at
> recovering from a system crash (eg power failure).
I wouldn't take it that far, just remember the ID of the last person,
event, or other object that you 'worked' with, which would add one line
to some INI file.
>
>> Is there enough value in a feature only used once a session?
>  From the usability point of view I would say yes, as sessions are
> probably a frequent occurrence (more than once a day?) unless the
> majority of users have Gramps in sovereign posture (do we know?). I
> think *especially* in terms of the infrequent user who may really not
> want or be able to remember what they were doing in Gramps three weeks
> ago or whenever.
Right again.
> I have been treating my family tree work as a long-term usability review
> of Gramps, so eventually I'll have a list of potential pinch-points, but
> I am always conscious of the comments of my millenial family members on
> software usability, which are often at odds with the classical
> industrial scales. If attracting younger users to family tree creation
> and maintenance is an issue, that mismatch is something that may need
> attention.

Exactly. Younger people are so used to apps that this is a real issue.
For example, in many apps, you don't see OK and Cancel buttons. Changes
are sort of immediate, and that's quite different from most of our 'old
school' desktop software.

This is not to say that getting rid of those is always a good idea.

Regards,

Enno




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Re: Startup person selection

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by Peter Flynn
On 23/12/2018 10:24, Peter Flynn wrote:
like simplifying source attachment to multiple people in a family
grouping (similar to what FamilySearch does when attaching a Census
record - with sourced & dated Residence events to a Family members or
adding Siblings with a circa birthdate/state)... 
Yep. That's certainly higher priority.

We plan to move more towards source-based data entry in the future.

Nick.




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Re: Startup person selection

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Peter Flynn
I guess my writing didn't convey that I felt the Bookmark and Home Person method was to IFfy and unnatural too.  (The are already too many times that I need to temporarily re-assign the Home person. So many that I keep a Bookmark for the normal Home person to facilitate quickly restoring that Person to Home)

I suggest the Last Changed method because it's a more innate capability that doesn't require discipline and is available now. Realistically, with a major revision & a bug fix just released, the next enhancement release is a ways off.

BTW, there is a related preference (in the Family Tree tab) to "Automatically load last family tree" and would probably be the right place to add the Restore last session. (Personally, I find the Clipboard flush far more disconcerting than losing track of the View & Person.) I suppose that if you were to File an enhancement request, it would be worth mentioning that.  An expansion of an existing function requires less groundwork and makes the Enhancement Request more viable.
See

I hesitate to use this kind of feature because Gramps modifies the Tree database every time it is loaded.  I've read a few postings on this list where a Tree has become corrupted and locks Gramps when trying to load. Repeated Load/Modify cycles could worsen the corruption until unrecoverable.

Also, Gramps automatically updates the data schema if the Gramps backend has been updated. A cash-poor user & a dilettante in programming, I've chosen Bug Testing and Documentation as my way of giving back to this Open Source project. And that means I'll occasionally have multiple versions installed and a feature like this could auto-mangle my main Tree as I simply open an unstable new Gramps branch.  The Programmers would run the same risk and be well advised to avoid the feature.  In general, it seems risky to use a feature that the Programmers are prone to avoid.

I started computing with headless systems & punch cards... so my acceptable pain threshold is unnaturally high. But in this case, I suggest that this kind of feature should be on the back-burner until there is a Safe Mode for Gramps & a Read-Only Gramps Tree browser. Unfortunately, once put on a back-burner, items tend to be lost in the mists of time. 

It's still worth discussing and fleshing out. But you might not want to put it in the queue yet.

On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 17:03, Peter Flynn

> Bookmarking and setting the Home person ARE an option to restoring the
> last worksession IF you knew you were going to exit and IF you remember
> to do the extra step.

True. I was just looking at it from a usability perspective. With a "remember this" setting turned on, you wouldn't need to remember to do any of that. Yes, the discipline is good for your brain, and it's part of a user's education, but in usability terms it's non-productive excise.


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Re: Startup person selection

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by Nick Hall
Yay!!!!!!!  

Can I suggest an Obituary/Biography as the test case?  I often find myself expanding/refining nearby Persons to the active Relationship using these. 

Althoigh error-prone, a newspaper obit suggests many, many things: where the living relatives resided by that date, the sibs & their mate's given name. 

Obits can refine a blank death date for the sibs. Estimating a death date for a Living sib goes from "ESTIMATED BETWEEN puberty (or maybe marriage date minus shotgun leadtime?) of mother AND death of mother plus max. lifespan" to "CALCULATED BETWEEN publication date AND death of mother plus max. lifespan". The upper range limit can be refined by the obit publication date when a sib/spouse/parent/child preceded in death.

But it's VERY awkward keeping the obit Text visible as you manually data-mine such information.  Since it is a Note in a Citation in a Source of an Event of a Person in a Relationship, there are 5 Windows open to keep the Note visible for data-mining, plus the clipboard for the citation, plus the 5 Windows to drill down on the Family member to refine the Event & attach the source to it. (I think there's a Note gramplet that could help but I never think about opening it until I'm too deeply engaged in the process.) Re-arranging all those windows so they don't hide the Note text is an incredible time-suck. 

I often lose track of who's been refined when working a large family obit. And the Reference on the transcription listed the Citations, their References list the Source and the (periodical) Source lists all the Events related to any Obit logged for that Periodical. (My hometown newspapers Source has a LOT of Obits, Social reports, news clippings which span generations of extended family. 

On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 8:30, Nick Hall
<[hidden email]> wrote: 

We plan to move more towards source-based data entry in the future.

Nick.



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Re: Startup person selection

Dave Scheipers
On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 10:44 AM Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Yay!!!!!!!
>
> Can I suggest an Obituary/Biography as the test case?  I often find myself expanding/refining nearby Persons to the active Relationship using these.
>
> Althoigh error-prone, a newspaper obit suggests many, many things: where the living relatives resided by that date, the sibs & their mate's given name.
>
> Obits can refine a blank death date for the sibs. Estimating a death date for a Living sib goes from "ESTIMATED BETWEEN puberty (or maybe marriage date minus shotgun leadtime?) of mother AND death of mother plus max. lifespan" to "CALCULATED BETWEEN publication date AND death of mother plus max. lifespan". The upper range limit can be refined by the obit publication date when a sib/spouse/parent/child preceded in death.
>
> But it's VERY awkward keeping the obit Text visible as you manually data-mine such information.  Since it is a Note in a Citation in a Source of an Event of a Person in a Relationship, there are 5 Windows open to keep the Note visible for data-mining, plus the clipboard for the citation, plus the 5 Windows to drill down on the Family member to refine the Event & attach the source to it. (I think there's a Note gramplet that could help but I never think about opening it until I'm too deeply engaged in the process.) Re-arranging all those windows so they don't hide the Note text is an incredible time-suck.
>
> I often lose track of who's been refined when working a large family obit. And the Reference on the transcription listed the Citations, their References list the Source and the (periodical) Source lists all the Events related to any Obit logged for that Periodical. (My hometown newspapers Source has a LOT of Obits, Social reports, news clippings which span generations of extended family.
>
> On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 8:30, Nick Hall
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> We plan to move more towards source-based data entry in the future.
>
> Nick.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> https://gramps-project.org


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Re: Startup person selection

Dave Scheipers
Sorry for the empty email. What I meant to send....

I put Obituaries in the Person's Note tab. Not events, etc.

But to get around keeping the note active while the person and events
are closed.... Copy the Note to the Clipboard and then open that note.
It stays active while you search other people and fill in their
portion of the information from  the obit.

Dave




On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 10:54 AM Dave Scheipers
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 10:44 AM Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Yay!!!!!!!
> >
> > Can I suggest an Obituary/Biography as the test case?  I often find myself expanding/refining nearby Persons to the active Relationship using these.
> >
> > Althoigh error-prone, a newspaper obit suggests many, many things: where the living relatives resided by that date, the sibs & their mate's given name.
> >
> > Obits can refine a blank death date for the sibs. Estimating a death date for a Living sib goes from "ESTIMATED BETWEEN puberty (or maybe marriage date minus shotgun leadtime?) of mother AND death of mother plus max. lifespan" to "CALCULATED BETWEEN publication date AND death of mother plus max. lifespan". The upper range limit can be refined by the obit publication date when a sib/spouse/parent/child preceded in death.
> >
> > But it's VERY awkward keeping the obit Text visible as you manually data-mine such information.  Since it is a Note in a Citation in a Source of an Event of a Person in a Relationship, there are 5 Windows open to keep the Note visible for data-mining, plus the clipboard for the citation, plus the 5 Windows to drill down on the Family member to refine the Event & attach the source to it. (I think there's a Note gramplet that could help but I never think about opening it until I'm too deeply engaged in the process.) Re-arranging all those windows so they don't hide the Note text is an incredible time-suck.
> >
> > I often lose track of who's been refined when working a large family obit. And the Reference on the transcription listed the Citations, their References list the Source and the (periodical) Source lists all the Events related to any Obit logged for that Periodical. (My hometown newspapers Source has a LOT of Obits, Social reports, news clippings which span generations of extended family.
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 8:30, Nick Hall
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > We plan to move more towards source-based data entry in the future.
> >
> > Nick.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gramps-users mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> > https://gramps-project.org


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Source-based data entry [Was: Startup person selection]

Nick Hall
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - User mailing list
Yes.  Exactly.  We are looking at unstructured text such as newspaper articles and notices, obituaries, wills, biographies...

The idea would be to use a special text editor to give meaning to parts of a transcription.  This could be stored as a tagged or marked-up note.  Then we could use a tool to automatically generate objects from this data.

I have already written a prototype editor, but was too ambitious and attempted to add support for tables and lists.  I was not entirely happy with the result.

Perhaps I should just release something simple as a third-party addon?  Hopefully users could give feedback and steer the development process.

I also remember that Tony Proctor suggested a similar approach before (his recent post just jogged my memory).

Regards,

Nick.


On 23/12/2018 15:42, [hidden email] wrote:
Yay!!!!!!!  

Can I suggest an Obituary/Biography as the test case?  I often find myself expanding/refining nearby Persons to the active Relationship using these. 

Althoigh error-prone, a newspaper obit suggests many, many things: where the living relatives resided by that date, the sibs & their mate's given name. 

Obits can refine a blank death date for the sibs. Estimating a death date for a Living sib goes from "ESTIMATED BETWEEN puberty (or maybe marriage date minus shotgun leadtime?) of mother AND death of mother plus max. lifespan" to "CALCULATED BETWEEN publication date AND death of mother plus max. lifespan". The upper range limit can be refined by the obit publication date when a sib/spouse/parent/child preceded in death.

But it's VERY awkward keeping the obit Text visible as you manually data-mine such information.  Since it is a Note in a Citation in a Source of an Event of a Person in a Relationship, there are 5 Windows open to keep the Note visible for data-mining, plus the clipboard for the citation, plus the 5 Windows to drill down on the Family member to refine the Event & attach the source to it. (I think there's a Note gramplet that could help but I never think about opening it until I'm too deeply engaged in the process.) Re-arranging all those windows so they don't hide the Note text is an incredible time-suck. 

I often lose track of who's been refined when working a large family obit. And the Reference on the transcription listed the Citations, their References list the Source and the (periodical) Source lists all the Events related to any Obit logged for that Periodical. (My hometown newspapers Source has a LOT of Obits, Social reports, news clippings which span generations of extended family. 

On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 8:30, Nick Hall

We plan to move more towards source-based data entry in the future.

Nick.




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Re: Source-based data entry [Was: Startup person selection]

GRAMPS - User mailing list

Nick,

I'd love a chance to abuse and be frustrated by that alpha prototype as an add-on! Please consider giving us access. I'll only use it in disposable test Trees.

I really like the approach of developing new features as Add-ons rather than integrated features too. It promotes shorter evolution generations.

On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 11:25, Nick Hall
Yes.  Exactly.  We are looking at unstructured text such as newspaper articles and notices, obituaries, wills, biographies...

The idea would be to use a special text editor to give meaning to parts of a transcription.  This could be stored as a tagged or marked-up note.  Then we could use a tool to automatically generate objects from this data.

I have already written a prototype editor, but was too ambitious and attempted to add support for tables and lists.  I was not entirely happy with the result.

Perhaps I should just release something simple as a third-party addon?  Hopefully users could give feedback and steer the development process.

I also remember that Tony Proctor suggested a similar approach before (his recent post just jogged my memory).

Regards,

Nick.


On 23/12/2018 15:42, [hidden email] wrote:
Yay!!!!!!!  

Can I suggest an Obituary/Biography as the test case?  I often find myself expanding/refining nearby Persons to the active Relationship using these. 

Althoigh error-prone, a newspaper obit suggests many, many things: where the living relatives resided by that date, the sibs & their mate's given name. 

Obits can refine a blank death date for the sibs. Estimating a death date for a Living sib goes from "ESTIMATED BETWEEN puberty (or maybe marriage date minus shotgun leadtime?) of mother AND death of mother plus max. lifespan" to "CALCULATED BETWEEN publication date AND death of mother plus max. lifespan". The upper range limit can be refined by the obit publication date when a sib/spouse/parent/child preceded in death.

But it's VERY awkward keeping the obit Text visible as you manually data-mine such information.  Since it is a Note in a Citation in a Source of an Event of a Person in a Relationship, there are 5 Windows open to keep the Note visible for data-mining, plus the clipboard for the citation, plus the 5 Windows to drill down on the Family member to refine the Event & attach the source to it. (I think there's a Note gramplet that could help but I never think about opening it until I'm too deeply engaged in the process.) Re-arranging all those windows so they don't hide the Note text is an incredible time-suck. 

I often lose track of who's been refined when working a large family obit. And the Reference on the transcription listed the Citations, their References list the Source and the (periodical) Source lists all the Events related to any Obit logged for that Periodical. (My hometown newspapers Source has a LOT of Obits, Social reports, news clippings which span generations of extended family. 

On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 8:30, Nick Hall

We plan to move more towards source-based data entry in the future.

Nick.




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Re: Startup person selection

Ron Johnson
In reply to this post by Dave Scheipers
Out of curiosity, why?  After all, the obit is a citation.

On 12/23/18 10:00 AM, Dave Scheipers wrote:

> Sorry for the empty email. What I meant to send....
>
> I put Obituaries in the Person's Note tab. Not events, etc.
>
> But to get around keeping the note active while the person and events
> are closed.... Copy the Note to the Clipboard and then open that note.
> It stays active while you search other people and fill in their
> portion of the information from  the obit.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 10:54 AM Dave Scheipers
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 10:44 AM Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Yay!!!!!!!
>>>
>>> Can I suggest an Obituary/Biography as the test case?  I often find myself expanding/refining nearby Persons to the active Relationship using these.
>>>
>>> Althoigh error-prone, a newspaper obit suggests many, many things: where the living relatives resided by that date, the sibs & their mate's given name.
>>>
>>> Obits can refine a blank death date for the sibs. Estimating a death date for a Living sib goes from "ESTIMATED BETWEEN puberty (or maybe marriage date minus shotgun leadtime?) of mother AND death of mother plus max. lifespan" to "CALCULATED BETWEEN publication date AND death of mother plus max. lifespan". The upper range limit can be refined by the obit publication date when a sib/spouse/parent/child preceded in death.
>>>
>>> But it's VERY awkward keeping the obit Text visible as you manually data-mine such information.  Since it is a Note in a Citation in a Source of an Event of a Person in a Relationship, there are 5 Windows open to keep the Note visible for data-mining, plus the clipboard for the citation, plus the 5 Windows to drill down on the Family member to refine the Event & attach the source to it. (I think there's a Note gramplet that could help but I never think about opening it until I'm too deeply engaged in the process.) Re-arranging all those windows so they don't hide the Note text is an incredible time-suck.
>>>
>>> I often lose track of who's been refined when working a large family obit. And the Reference on the transcription listed the Citations, their References list the Source and the (periodical) Source lists all the Events related to any Obit logged for that Periodical. (My hometown newspapers Source has a LOT of Obits, Social reports, news clippings which span generations of extended family.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 8:30, Nick Hall
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> We plan to move more towards source-based data entry in the future.
>>>
>>> Nick.


--
Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.


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Re: Startup person selection

Dave Scheipers
For me, the obituary is nothing more than a narrative of the person's life.

While I will attempt to glean as much information as possible about
the person's family from the obituary, I view that information as a
clue, not a fact. So I do not attach a citation to those clues.

I would prefer to attach the citation to the obituary, a narrative.
But for some reason, a note cannot be sourced and cited except within
the body of the text.

On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 2:36 PM Ron Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Out of curiosity, why?  After all, the obit is a citation.
>
> On 12/23/18 10:00 AM, Dave Scheipers wrote:
> > Sorry for the empty email. What I meant to send....
> >
> > I put Obituaries in the Person's Note tab. Not events, etc.
> >
> > But to get around keeping the note active while the person and events
> > are closed.... Copy the Note to the Clipboard and then open that note.
> > It stays active while you search other people and fill in their
> > portion of the information from  the obit.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 10:54 AM Dave Scheipers
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 10:44 AM Emyoulation--- via Gramps-users
> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>> Yay!!!!!!!
> >>>
> >>> Can I suggest an Obituary/Biography as the test case?  I often find myself expanding/refining nearby Persons to the active Relationship using these.
> >>>
> >>> Althoigh error-prone, a newspaper obit suggests many, many things: where the living relatives resided by that date, the sibs & their mate's given name.
> >>>
> >>> Obits can refine a blank death date for the sibs. Estimating a death date for a Living sib goes from "ESTIMATED BETWEEN puberty (or maybe marriage date minus shotgun leadtime?) of mother AND death of mother plus max. lifespan" to "CALCULATED BETWEEN publication date AND death of mother plus max. lifespan". The upper range limit can be refined by the obit publication date when a sib/spouse/parent/child preceded in death.
> >>>
> >>> But it's VERY awkward keeping the obit Text visible as you manually data-mine such information.  Since it is a Note in a Citation in a Source of an Event of a Person in a Relationship, there are 5 Windows open to keep the Note visible for data-mining, plus the clipboard for the citation, plus the 5 Windows to drill down on the Family member to refine the Event & attach the source to it. (I think there's a Note gramplet that could help but I never think about opening it until I'm too deeply engaged in the process.) Re-arranging all those windows so they don't hide the Note text is an incredible time-suck.
> >>>
> >>> I often lose track of who's been refined when working a large family obit. And the Reference on the transcription listed the Citations, their References list the Source and the (periodical) Source lists all the Events related to any Obit logged for that Periodical. (My hometown newspapers Source has a LOT of Obits, Social reports, news clippings which span generations of extended family.
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 8:30, Nick Hall
> >>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> We plan to move more towards source-based data entry in the future.
> >>>
> >>> Nick.
>
>
> --
> Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
> https://gramps-project.org


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