The Sort Order for Children

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The Sort Order for Children

Tony Gordon
Some weeks ago I made a post to the bugs mailing list about two problems
with the text descendant report. One was sorted out. It was suggested
that I post the other here for some discussion.

The issue is one of the order of children occurring in the descendant
report. It appears that if there is no birth date the children are
listed in alphabetical order whereas if there are birth dates, the
children are listed in birth date order. If the family has some children
for whom the date is known and some that are not, the report lists the
no-date children first (in alphabetical order) then the date children,
leaving an understandable but rather random order.

It was suggested that if I could suggest a better algorithm for sorting
children that can be formally described then it could be programed. I am
not a programmer so am not sure what can be formally described, but I
think that it would be helpful if all descendant reports used the same
algorithm for sorting the children. My preference for an order would be
that as shown in the family view which is that used for the detailed
descendant report and the descendant graph. (I wonder if the fact that
this order already shows in these other reports indicates that the
algorithm is already in use?)

Open for discussion.

Tony



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Re: The Sort Order for Children

Jochen123
On Sun, Mar 05, 2006 at 06:12:30PM +1300, Tony G wrote:

> Some weeks ago I made a post to the bugs mailing list about two problems
> with the text descendant report. One was sorted out. It was suggested
> that I post the other here for some discussion.
>
> The issue is one of the order of children occurring in the descendant
> report. It appears that if there is no birth date the children are
> listed in alphabetical order whereas if there are birth dates, the
> children are listed in birth date order. If the family has some children
> for whom the date is known and some that are not, the report lists the
> no-date children first (in alphabetical order) then the date children,
> leaving an understandable but rather random order.
>
> It was suggested that if I could suggest a better algorithm for sorting
> children that can be formally described then it could be programed. I am
> not a programmer so am not sure what can be formally described, but I
> think that it would be helpful if all descendant reports used the same
> algorithm for sorting the children. My preference for an order would be
> that as shown in the family view which is that used for the detailed
> descendant report and the descendant graph. (I wonder if the fact that
> this order already shows in these other reports indicates that the
> algorithm is already in use?)
>
> Open for discussion.

The best would be, if the user can state the order of the children.
Sometimes birth dates are not known, but the order is. This would mean
that the database had to store the order in another attribute. Default
could still be the current behaviour or the order in which the children
were entered. This is not easy to do though, not only because it needs
another attribute, but also because there a difficult cases: What if you
have already defined an order and then add a birth date for some of the
children. Would they be re-ordered? And how?

Jochen
--
Jochen Topf  [hidden email]  http://www.remote.org/jochen/  +49-721-388298



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Re: The Sort Order for Children

Tony Gordon
Jochen
On Mon, 2006-03-06 at 08:33 +0100, Jochen Topf wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 05, 2006 at 06:12:30PM +1300, Tony G wrote:
> > Some weeks ago I made a post to the bugs mailing list about two problems
> > with the text descendant report. One was sorted out. It was suggested
> > that I post the other here for some discussion.
> >
> > The issue is one of the order of children occurring in the descendant
> > report. It appears that if there is no birth date the children are
> > listed in alphabetical order whereas if there are birth dates, the
> > children are listed in birth date order. If the family has some children
> > for whom the date is known and some that are not, the report lists the
> > no-date children first (in alphabetical order) then the date children,
> > leaving an understandable but rather random order.
> >
> > It was suggested that if I could suggest a better algorithm for sorting
> > children that can be formally described then it could be programed. I am
> > not a programmer so am not sure what can be formally described, but I
> > think that it would be helpful if all descendant reports used the same
> > algorithm for sorting the children. My preference for an order would be
> > that as shown in the family view which is that used for the detailed
> > descendant report and the descendant graph. (I wonder if the fact that
> > this order already shows in these other reports indicates that the
> > algorithm is already in use?)
> >
> > Open for discussion.
>
> The best would be, if the user can state the order of the children.
> Sometimes birth dates are not known, but the order is. This would mean
> that the database had to store the order in another attribute. Default
> could still be the current behaviour or the order in which the children
> were entered. This is not easy to do though, not only because it needs
> another attribute, but also because there a difficult cases: What if you
> have already defined an order and then add a birth date for some of the
> children. Would they be re-ordered? And how?
>
> Jochen

You can order or reorder the children in what ever way you choose in the
family view using the drag and drop feature.

When I know it, I have chosen to order the children in their birth order
even if I do not have the dates. It is this order that is used in the
detailed descendant report and the descendant graph, whether or not
dates are attached to all, some or none of the individuals.

Tony




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Re: The Sort Order for Children

Jochen123
On Mon, Mar 06, 2006 at 09:07:36PM +1300, Tony G wrote:

> On Mon, 2006-03-06 at 08:33 +0100, Jochen Topf wrote:
> > On Sun, Mar 05, 2006 at 06:12:30PM +1300, Tony G wrote:
> > > Some weeks ago I made a post to the bugs mailing list about two problems
> > > with the text descendant report. One was sorted out. It was suggested
> > > that I post the other here for some discussion.
> > >
> > > The issue is one of the order of children occurring in the descendant
> > > report. It appears that if there is no birth date the children are
> > > listed in alphabetical order whereas if there are birth dates, the
> > > children are listed in birth date order. If the family has some children
> > > for whom the date is known and some that are not, the report lists the
> > > no-date children first (in alphabetical order) then the date children,
> > > leaving an understandable but rather random order.
> > >
> > > It was suggested that if I could suggest a better algorithm for sorting
> > > children that can be formally described then it could be programed. I am
> > > not a programmer so am not sure what can be formally described, but I
> > > think that it would be helpful if all descendant reports used the same
> > > algorithm for sorting the children. My preference for an order would be
> > > that as shown in the family view which is that used for the detailed
> > > descendant report and the descendant graph. (I wonder if the fact that
> > > this order already shows in these other reports indicates that the
> > > algorithm is already in use?)
> > >
> > > Open for discussion.
> >
> > The best would be, if the user can state the order of the children.
> > Sometimes birth dates are not known, but the order is. This would mean
> > that the database had to store the order in another attribute. Default
> > could still be the current behaviour or the order in which the children
> > were entered. This is not easy to do though, not only because it needs
> > another attribute, but also because there a difficult cases: What if you
> > have already defined an order and then add a birth date for some of the
> > children. Would they be re-ordered? And how?
> >
> > Jochen
>
> You can order or reorder the children in what ever way you choose in the
> family view using the drag and drop feature.
>
> When I know it, I have chosen to order the children in their birth order
> even if I do not have the dates. It is this order that is used in the
> detailed descendant report and the descendant graph, whether or not
> dates are attached to all, some or none of the individuals.

Ah, cool. I didn't know that. And its not in the documentation as far as
I can see.

Jochen
--
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Re: The Sort Order for Children

Alex Roitman
In reply to this post by Tony Gordon
Tony,

On Sun, 2006-03-05 at 18:12 +1300, Tony G wrote:

> Some weeks ago I made a post to the bugs mailing list about two problems
> with the text descendant report. One was sorted out. It was suggested
> that I post the other here for some discussion.
>
> The issue is one of the order of children occurring in the descendant
> report. It appears that if there is no birth date the children are
> listed in alphabetical order whereas if there are birth dates, the
> children are listed in birth date order. If the family has some children
> for whom the date is known and some that are not, the report lists the
> no-date children first (in alphabetical order) then the date children,
> leaving an understandable but rather random order.
>
> It was suggested that if I could suggest a better algorithm for sorting
> children that can be formally described then it could be programed. I am
> not a programmer so am not sure what can be formally described, but I
> think that it would be helpful if all descendant reports used the same
> algorithm for sorting the children. My preference for an order would be
> that as shown in the family view which is that used for the detailed
> descendant report and the descendant graph. (I wonder if the fact that
> this order already shows in these other reports indicates that the
> algorithm is already in use?)
Thanks for clarifying this. I think it makes all the sense to go
with what's in the Family View in all reports. After all, the Family
View is the one and only place where one can change this.

Could you please file a bug report here:
   http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=25770&atid=385137
and add the details: which reports need to be fixed and which
ones already have it right (and in what version of gramps).

Thanks,
Alex

--
Alexander Roitman   http://www.gramps-project.org

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