Tree structure problem

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
10 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Tree structure problem

Martnal
This is only slightly a GRAMPS problem but I'm sure somebody will be able to help me.

I have a family with four siblings, Jane, John, Louisa and Elizabeth born in that order. Jane marries Matthew. They have four children and then Jane dies. Matthew then married Elizabeth, the younger sister. GRAMPS doesn't display this how I think it should be, but I'm not actually sure how it should be drawn. Can anybody help me?

I want to maintain the chronological order of the four siblings, but also want it to be clear that Matthew was married to both Jane and Elizabeth, and in that order.

Thanks,

Martin

Martin, SW London

I am using GrampsAIO64-4.2.5-1 on Windows 10.

I am researching surnames Loughborough, (London, Hull and Hartlepool), Watson, (Jarrow and Hartlepool), Ballard and Glassop (E. London), Mowbray, Pounder and Bulmer, (all Hartlepool), Leggett (Middlesborough and elsewhere).
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tree structure problem

Ron Johnson
What exactly do you mean by "tree structure"?  (It has general and specific
meanings.)

On 01/11/2017 06:31 AM, Martnal wrote:

> This is only slightly a GRAMPS problem but I'm sure somebody will be able to
> help me.
>
> I have a family with four siblings, Jane, John, Louisa and Elizabeth born in
> that order. Jane marries Matthew. They have four children and then Jane
> dies. Matthew then married Elizabeth, the younger sister. GRAMPS doesn't
> display this how I think it should be, but I'm not actually sure how it
> should be drawn. Can anybody help me?
>
> I want to maintain the chronological order of the four siblings, but also
> want it to be clear that Matthew was married to both Jane and Elizabeth, and
> in that order.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Martin

--
World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
Training and support from Colfax.
Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
https://gramps-project.org
NdK
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tree structure problem

NdK
In reply to this post by Martnal
Il 11/01/2017 13:31, Martnal ha scritto:

> I want to maintain the chronological order of the four siblings, but also
> want it to be clear that Matthew was married to both Jane and Elizabeth, and
> in that order.
IIUC what you want, it's not possible: graph layout depends on dot, an
external program that tries to optimize the graphs by minimizing edges
length and crossings. To do that, it reorders the nodes, only keeping
the "ranks" (levels... IOW all the children of a couple will be on the
same line). Too bad dot doesn't have a "genealogical mode"...

Remember that what could be appealing for a simple graph could make a
complex one (many thousands nodes) unreadable.
But some things can be tweaked manually, if you just generate the dot
file: it's just text with a simple format, you can modify it manually
and run dot to "compile" it to pdf.

BYtE,
 Diego

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
Training and support from Colfax.
Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
https://gramps-project.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tree structure problem

paul womack
NdK wrote:

> Il 11/01/2017 13:31, Martnal ha scritto:
>
>> I want to maintain the chronological order of the four siblings, but also
>> want it to be clear that Matthew was married to both Jane and Elizabeth, and
>> in that order.
> IIUC what you want, it's not possible: graph layout depends on dot, an
> external program that tries to optimize the graphs by minimizing edges
> length and crossings. To do that, it reorders the nodes, only keeping
> the "ranks" (levels... IOW all the children of a couple will be on the
> same line). Too bad dot doesn't have a "genealogical mode"...

Not needed; dot is very flexible. it would be possible to use nodes, and relationships
between nodes, to enforce ordering. I use such a technique to make tree diagrams
where all events that take place in the same period are at the same
vertical level on the diagram, giving me a true "time axis" instead
of the more usual generational axis.

However.

Reducing Dot's options will  probably result in less good disgrams.

Dot is more than clever enough to put children with no relationships
in the middle of the siblings, with children WITH relationships
on the outer edges. This allows space for the relation links.

Drawing good diagrams of large trees is VERY difficult, with many conflicting
factors.

   BugBear

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
Training and support from Colfax.
Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
https://gramps-project.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tree structure problem

Gerhard Killesreiter
Am 12.01.2017 um 10:15 schrieb paul womack:

> NdK wrote:
>> Il 11/01/2017 13:31, Martnal ha scritto:
>>
>>> I want to maintain the chronological order of the four siblings, but also
>>> want it to be clear that Matthew was married to both Jane and Elizabeth, and
>>> in that order.
>> IIUC what you want, it's not possible: graph layout depends on dot, an
>> external program that tries to optimize the graphs by minimizing edges
>> length and crossings. To do that, it reorders the nodes, only keeping
>> the "ranks" (levels... IOW all the children of a couple will be on the
>> same line). Too bad dot doesn't have a "genealogical mode"...
>
> Not needed; dot is very flexible. it would be possible to use nodes, and relationships
> between nodes, to enforce ordering. I use such a technique to make tree diagrams
> where all events that take place in the same period are at the same
> vertical level on the diagram, giving me a true "time axis" instead
> of the more usual generational axis.

Would you mind sharing how you do this? Is there a plugin? I often find
that the generational axis is quite limiting.

Cheers,
Gerhard


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
Training and support from Colfax.
Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
https://gramps-project.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tree structure problem

paul womack
Gerhard Killesreiter wrote:
> Am 12.01.2017 um 10:15 schrieb paul womack:
>> Not needed; dot is very flexible. it would be possible to use nodes, and relationships
>> between nodes, to enforce ordering. I use such a technique to make tree diagrams
>> where all events that take place in the same period are at the same
>> vertical level on the diagram, giving me a true "time axis" instead
>> of the more usual generational axis.
>
> Would you mind sharing how you do this? Is there a plugin? I often find
> that the generational axis is quite limiting.

I'm afraid It's 1300 lines of standalone perl, which do exactly what I want
in the matter of family tree diagrams, and it is only going to run
(I suspect) on Linux.

It's unlikely to be exactly what someone else wants.

I got help on the techniques of Graphviz/Dot manipulation on the GraphViz mailing list.

  BugBear


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
Training and support from Colfax.
Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
https://gramps-project.org
NdK
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tree structure problem

NdK
In reply to this post by paul womack
Il 12/01/2017 10:15, paul womack ha scritto:

> Not needed; dot is very flexible. it would be possible to use nodes, and
> relationships between nodes,
Well, it's even possible to give absolute node positioning... But that
would make one really insane :)
So, to be precise, what Martin asked is *technically* doable, but
requires a lot of manual work (unless someone is able to create a GUI
for it -- I'm not).

> Drawing good diagrams of large trees is VERY difficult, with many
> conflicting factors.
That's exactly what I was trying to say :)

BYtE,
 Diego


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
Training and support from Colfax.
Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
https://gramps-project.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tree structure problem

Ron Johnson
In reply to this post by Gerhard Killesreiter
On 01/12/2017 05:13 AM, paul womack wrote:

> Gerhard Killesreiter wrote:
>> Am 12.01.2017 um 10:15 schrieb paul womack:
>>> Not needed; dot is very flexible. it would be possible to use nodes, and relationships
>>> between nodes, to enforce ordering. I use such a technique to make tree diagrams
>>> where all events that take place in the same period are at the same
>>> vertical level on the diagram, giving me a true "time axis" instead
>>> of the more usual generational axis.
>> Would you mind sharing how you do this? Is there a plugin? I often find
>> that the generational axis is quite limiting.
> I'm afraid It's 1300 lines of standalone perl, which do exactly what I want
> in the matter of family tree diagrams, and it is only going to run
> (I suspect) on Linux.
>
> It's unlikely to be exactly what someone else wants.

Many of us run Linux, and manipulating a dot file won't destroy our trees,
so even if it doesn't work out for us, all that's spent is a little time
wasted...  :)

--
World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
Training and support from Colfax.
Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
https://gramps-project.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tree structure problem

Gerhard Killesreiter
In reply to this post by paul womack
Am 12.01.2017 um 12:13 schrieb paul womack:

> Gerhard Killesreiter wrote:
>> Am 12.01.2017 um 10:15 schrieb paul womack:
>>> Not needed; dot is very flexible. it would be possible to use nodes,
>>> and relationships
>>> between nodes, to enforce ordering. I use such a technique to make
>>> tree diagrams
>>> where all events that take place in the same period are at the same
>>> vertical level on the diagram, giving me a true "time axis" instead
>>> of the more usual generational axis.
>>
>> Would you mind sharing how you do this? Is there a plugin? I often find
>> that the generational axis is quite limiting.
>
> I'm afraid It's 1300 lines of standalone perl,

Is it somewhat documented?

> which do exactly what I want
> in the matter of family tree diagrams, and it is only going to run
> (I suspect) on Linux.

That's fine.

> It's unlikely to be exactly what someone else wants.

But it might be a useful example nevertheless.

> I got help on the techniques of Graphviz/Dot manipulation on the
> GraphViz mailing list.

If you could provide an example, we wouldn't need to bug you again. ;)

Cheers,
Gerhard



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
Training and support from Colfax.
Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
https://gramps-project.org
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tree structure problem

Peter Merchant
In reply to this post by Martnal
On 11/01/17 12:31, Martnal wrote:

> This is only slightly a GRAMPS problem but I'm sure somebody will be able to
> help me.
>
> I have a family with four siblings, Jane, John, Louisa and Elizabeth born in
> that order. Jane marries Matthew. They have four children and then Jane
> dies. Matthew then married Elizabeth, the younger sister. GRAMPS doesn't
> display this how I think it should be, but I'm not actually sure how it
> should be drawn. Can anybody help me?
>
> I want to maintain the chronological order of the four siblings, but also
> want it to be clear that Matthew was married to both Jane and Elizabeth, and
> in that order.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> -----
>
>
> Martin, SW London
>
> I am using GRAMPS 4.2.3-1 on Windows 10.
>
I am seeing a similar problem, but this is on the 'live' charts that I
use for navigating around my  family. I have three chart symbols on the
toolbar and one shows a vertical box tree of the family. On the sample
that I brought up to be able to describe it, I have my brothers
daughters second husband not appearing beside her, but over on the other
side of my children, with a line crossing below my family.

...........Bro............Me
             |                 |
1stH - Jen -           My Children        2ndH
                  |_______________________|


There are other similar abnormalities, but this is one that I saw
immediately.

Is this the same problem, or another?

I am on Kubuntu 16.04, Gramps 4.2.4

Peter M.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
Training and support from Colfax.
Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
_______________________________________________
Gramps-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
https://gramps-project.org