Trying to install GRAMPS gramps-3.2.3-1.exe

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Trying to install GRAMPS gramps-3.2.3-1.exe

john espiro
I am on Windows XP, trying to install gramps-3.2.3-1.exe.

When I run the install it tells me the following two items are not found:
GTK
pygtk

Both are installed.  pygtk-2.16.0.win32-py2.6.exe has been installed to the
default location: C:\Program Files\Python26\Lib\site-packages\

What can I do to get this to work?

Thanks,
John


     

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Re: Trying to install GRAMPS gramps-3.2.3-1.exe

Peter Landgren
Den Tuesday 12 October 2010 16.28.17 skrev john espiro:

> I am on Windows XP, trying to install gramps-3.2.3-1.exe.
>
> When I run the install it tells me the following two items are not found:
> GTK
> pygtk
>
> Both are installed.  pygtk-2.16.0.win32-py2.6.exe has been installed to the
> default location: C:\Program Files\Python26\Lib\site-packages\
>
> What can I do to get this to work?
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
What is your PATH variable?

The order is important.

/Peter

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Re: Trying to install GRAMPS gramps-3.2.3-1.exe

Stephen George
In reply to this post by john espiro
  Hi John,

On 13/10/2010 1:28 AM, john espiro wrote:

> I am on Windows XP, trying to install gramps-3.2.3-1.exe.
>
> When I run the install it tells me the following two items are not found:
> GTK
> pygtk
>
> Both are installed.  pygtk-2.16.0.win32-py2.6.exe has been installed to the
> default location: C:\Program Files\Python26\Lib\site-packages\
>
> What can I do to get this to work?
>
> Thanks,
> John

Can you clarify, have you have Gramps working on the computer before?
The screen you are talking about is an informational screen, you can
install anyway, but if gtk & pyGTK are not installed properly don't
expect GRAMPS to run.

It is important that gtk runtime is on the system path, else python wont
be able to find it.

If you start a windows command prompt. you can test it for yourself.


Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\user>python
Python 2.6.3 (r263rc1:75186, Oct  2 2009, 20:40:30) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
(Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import gtk
 >>> import pygtk
 >>>

If no import errors, then all is OK.

If python is not on the path you will need to put full path in to start
the python interpretor

C:\Documents and Settings\user>c:\Python26\python.exe
Python 2.6.3 (r263rc1:75186, Oct  2 2009, 20:40:30) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
(Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import gtk
 >>> import pygtk
 >>>

Or do you get a traceback similar to this

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in<module>
   File "c:\Python26\lib\site-packages\gtk-2.0\gtk\__init__.py", line 40,
in<module>
     from gtk import _gtk
ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified procedure could not be found.


1) I had an import error on a XP 32bit machine. I solved it by
installing Microsoft Visual C++ redist for 2008 SP1
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=A5C84275-3B97-4AB7-A40D-3802B2AF5FC2&displaylang=en


2) On a windows 2000 machine I had a similar error when the GTK runtime
bin path was not in the environments path.

     Maybe you should check your GTK runtime is in the path.

Each time you perform one of these actions you may need to close down the command prompt and create a new one, esp. adding the path to environment will need a new command prompt to see the new path.

Until you get 'import gtk' working from the python interpreter, you cannot expect Gramps to use the gtk libraries.

Steve



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Re: Trying to install GRAMPS gramps-3.2.3-1.exe

john espiro
Well, the installer doesn't see pygtk or gtk.  So I took your
suggestion, ran python:

import pygtk works OK, but the GTK doesn't.  I installed
gtk-2.12.9-win32-1.exe to C:\Program Files\GTK2-Runtime and added the
following to my path:
C:\Program Files\Python26;C:\Program Files\GTK2-Runtime\bin

Then I ran the statements below and got:

Python 2.6.6 (r266:84297, Aug 24 2010, 18:46:32) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
(Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import gtk
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "C:\Program
Files\Python26\lib\site-packages\gtk-2.0\gtk\__init__.py", line 40, in
<module>
    from gtk import _gtk
ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified procedure could not be found.
>>> import pygtk
>>>

I also installed the MS file you mentioned, with the same result.

Any ideas?

John



On 10/12/2010 10:01 PM, Stephen George wrote:

>  
> Can you clarify, have you have Gramps working on the computer before?
> The screen you are talking about is an informational screen, you can
> install anyway, but if gtk & pyGTK are not installed properly don't
> expect GRAMPS to run.
>
> It is important that gtk runtime is on the system path, else python wont
> be able to find it.
>
> If you start a windows command prompt. you can test it for yourself.
>
>
> Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
> (C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.
>
> C:\Documents and Settings\user>python
> Python 2.6.3 (r263rc1:75186, Oct  2 2009, 20:40:30) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
> (Intel)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>  >>> import gtk
>  >>> import pygtk
>  >>>
>
> If no import errors, then all is OK.
>
> If python is not on the path you will need to put full path in to start
> the python interpretor
>
> C:\Documents and Settings\user>c:\Python26\python.exe
> Python 2.6.3 (r263rc1:75186, Oct  2 2009, 20:40:30) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
> (Intel)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>  >>> import gtk
>  >>> import pygtk
>  >>>
>
> Or do you get a traceback similar to this
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in<module>
>    File "c:\Python26\lib\site-packages\gtk-2.0\gtk\__init__.py", line 40,
> in<module>
>      from gtk import _gtk
> ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified procedure could not be found.
>
>
> 1) I had an import error on a XP 32bit machine. I solved it by
> installing Microsoft Visual C++ redist for 2008 SP1
> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=A5C84275-3B97-4AB7-A40D-3802B2AF5FC2&displaylang=en
>
>
> 2) On a windows 2000 machine I had a similar error when the GTK runtime
> bin path was not in the environments path.
>
>      Maybe you should check your GTK runtime is in the path.
>
> Each time you perform one of these actions you may need to close down the command prompt and create a new one, esp. adding the path to environment will need a new command prompt to see the new path.
>
> Until you get 'import gtk' working from the python interpreter, you cannot expect Gramps to use the gtk libraries.
>
> Steve
>

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Re: Trying to install GRAMPS gramps-3.2.3-1.exe

john espiro
Here's the full output of the dependency script - I have all the
components installed, I just can't figure this out.:

check_gtk_install.py

==== platform.win32_ver() reports ====
  Operating System: XP
  Version         : 5.1.2600
  Service Pack    : SP3
  OS type         : Multiprocessor Free

==== Checking Registry for GTK =====
  Version   : 2.12.9
  Path      : C:\Program Files\GTK2-Runtime
  DllPath   : C:\Program Files\GTK2-Runtime\bin

==== Use win32Api to query short path name for GTK =====
  **Cant query short path name, Win32Api not installed
    install from http://python.net/crew/mhammond/win32/
    if you want this function to work

==== Use ctypes to find dlls ====
  OK ... ctypes found dll's in C:\Program Files\GTK2-Runtime\bin

====Checking environment path for other gtk installations====
  FOUND: C:\Program Files\Graphviz2.24\bin, Probably OK as appears AFTER
runtime path
    ***************************************************************
    * While there are other installations of GTK DLL's on the path,
    * it should be safe as they are on the path AFTER the runtime
    * directory.

==== Test import into python ====
  Python  version 2.5.1 or above.....   found 2.6.6 ...OK
  GTK+    version 2.10.11 or above..... Not Found
  pyGTK   version 2.10.6 or above.....  Cannot test, ...GTK+ missing
  gobject version 2.12.3 or above.....  Not Found
  cairo   version 1.2.6 or above.....   found 1.4.12 ...OK

==== See if libglade installed ====
  Glade   importError: DLL load failed: The specified procedure could
not be found.


==== Checking with Dependency Walker ====
      Please be patient takes some time
  Testing file C:\Program
Files\Python26\Lib/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/_gtk.pyd
    ERROR: c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL     Version 9.0.21022.8
    ERROR: c:\program files\intel\wifi\bin\ZLIB1.DLL    Version 1.2.3.0
    IESHIMS.DLL         Error dll not found
    WER.DLL     Error dll not found

    MS runtime Version 9.0.21022.8 loaded from
    c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL

    MS runtime Version 9.0.30729.4148 loaded from
   
c:\windows\winsxs\x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.4148_x-ww_d495ac4e\MSVCR90.DLL

  Testing file C:\Program
Files\Python26\Lib/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gobject/_gobject.pyd
    ERROR: c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL     Version 9.0.21022.8
    IESHIMS.DLL         Error dll not found
    WER.DLL     Error dll not found

    MS runtime Version 9.0.21022.8 loaded from
    c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL

    MS runtime Version 9.0.30729.4148 loaded from
   
c:\windows\winsxs\x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.4148_x-ww_d495ac4e\MSVCR90.DLL

  Testing file C:\Program
Files\Python26\Lib/site-packages/gtk-2.0/pangocairo.pyd
    ERROR: c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL     Version 9.0.21022.8
    ERROR: c:\program files\intel\wifi\bin\ZLIB1.DLL    Version 1.2.3.0
    IESHIMS.DLL         Error dll not found
    WER.DLL     Error dll not found

    MS runtime Version 9.0.21022.8 loaded from
    c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL

    MS runtime Version 9.0.30729.4148 loaded from
   
c:\windows\winsxs\x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.4148_x-ww_d495ac4e\MSVCR90.DLL
















On 1/15/2011 2:25 AM, John Espiro wrote:

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Re: Trying to install GRAMPS gramps-3.2.3-1.exe

Stephen George
Hi John,


 From your previous email,

>  import pygtk works OK, but the GTK doesn't.  I installed
>  gtk-2.12.9-win32-1.exe to C:\Program Files\GTK2-Runtime and added the
>  following to my path:
>  C:\Program Files\Python26;C:\Program Files\GTK2-Runtime\bin

It is not clear to me what version of pyGTK you have installed. It'll
have to be one compatible with gtk-2.12.9, I don't think they all are.

Also you don't mention where in your path you added the GTKruntime, ..
towards start of path or towards end of path? - prefer toward start of path.


On 15/01/2011 3:19 PM, John Espiro wrote:
> Here's the full output of the dependency script - I have all the
> components installed, I just can't figure this out.:

The only thing that sticks out for me is that it is loading two versions
of ms runtime, not sure if that could be causing a conflict.
I wonder if you took 'freemat' off the path ( temporarily ) , if it
would change behaviour.

Other options worth investigating would be (in no particular order):

pygtk all in one http://www.pygtk.org/downloads.html It is a bigger
install, but comes bundled with the appropriate gtk runtime. My own
experience suggests it will work but some people have problems with an
unhandled exception when going to Gramps  Ancestry View. (if you get
this problem, and leave it on ancestory view when closing Gramps you
will not successfully start Gramps again unless you manually edit  
gramps.ini

Unhandled exception
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "C:\Programme\Gramps\plugins\view\pedigreeview.py", line 190, in realize
     self.context = self.window.cairo_create()
Error: the target surface has been finished


Or gramps-aio
It contains everything needed to run Gramps with one download, and
installs everything it needs within it's own folder, it is stand alone,
other things on the system will not affect it.
There is 32 and 64 bit versions, but I cannot help you with the links,
previous emails from Josip on this list will have some links, I tried
clicking a few, but they were dead.
Hopefully Josip can provided the current links for the 32 bit and 64 bit
versions of gramps -aio

I don't know your requirements, but gramps-aio could be the easiest
route, if it suits your needs.

Good luck
Steve

> check_gtk_install.py
>
> ==== platform.win32_ver() reports ====
>    Operating System: XP
>    Version         : 5.1.2600
>    Service Pack    : SP3
>    OS type         : Multiprocessor Free
>
> ==== Checking Registry for GTK =====
>    Version   : 2.12.9
>    Path      : C:\Program Files\GTK2-Runtime
>    DllPath   : C:\Program Files\GTK2-Runtime\bin
>
> ==== Use win32Api to query short path name for GTK =====
>    **Cant query short path name, Win32Api not installed
>      install from http://python.net/crew/mhammond/win32/
>      if you want this function to work
>
> ==== Use ctypes to find dlls ====
>    OK ... ctypes found dll's in C:\Program Files\GTK2-Runtime\bin
>
> ====Checking environment path for other gtk installations====
>    FOUND: C:\Program Files\Graphviz2.24\bin, Probably OK as appears AFTER
> runtime path
>      ***************************************************************
>      * While there are other installations of GTK DLL's on the path,
>      * it should be safe as they are on the path AFTER the runtime
>      * directory.
>
> ==== Test import into python ====
>    Python  version 2.5.1 or above.....   found 2.6.6 ...OK
>    GTK+    version 2.10.11 or above..... Not Found
>    pyGTK   version 2.10.6 or above.....  Cannot test, ...GTK+ missing
>    gobject version 2.12.3 or above.....  Not Found
>    cairo   version 1.2.6 or above.....   found 1.4.12 ...OK
>
> ==== See if libglade installed ====
>    Glade   importError: DLL load failed: The specified procedure could
> not be found.
>
>
> ==== Checking with Dependency Walker ====
>        Please be patient takes some time
>    Testing file C:\Program
> Files\Python26\Lib/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/_gtk.pyd
>      ERROR: c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL     Version 9.0.21022.8
>      ERROR: c:\program files\intel\wifi\bin\ZLIB1.DLL    Version 1.2.3.0
>      IESHIMS.DLL         Error dll not found
>      WER.DLL     Error dll not found
>
>      MS runtime Version 9.0.21022.8 loaded from
>      c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL
>
>      MS runtime Version 9.0.30729.4148 loaded from
>
> c:\windows\winsxs\x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.4148_x-ww_d495ac4e\MSVCR90.DLL
>
>    Testing file C:\Program
> Files\Python26\Lib/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gobject/_gobject.pyd
>      ERROR: c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL     Version 9.0.21022.8
>      IESHIMS.DLL         Error dll not found
>      WER.DLL     Error dll not found
>
>      MS runtime Version 9.0.21022.8 loaded from
>      c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL
>
>      MS runtime Version 9.0.30729.4148 loaded from
>
> c:\windows\winsxs\x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.4148_x-ww_d495ac4e\MSVCR90.DLL
>
>    Testing file C:\Program
> Files\Python26\Lib/site-packages/gtk-2.0/pangocairo.pyd
>      ERROR: c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL     Version 9.0.21022.8
>      ERROR: c:\program files\intel\wifi\bin\ZLIB1.DLL    Version 1.2.3.0
>      IESHIMS.DLL         Error dll not found
>      WER.DLL     Error dll not found
>
>      MS runtime Version 9.0.21022.8 loaded from
>      c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL
>
>      MS runtime Version 9.0.30729.4148 loaded from
>
> c:\windows\winsxs\x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.4148_x-ww_d495ac4e\MSVCR90.DLL
>


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Re: Trying to install GRAMPS gramps-3.2.3-1.exe

john espiro
I uninstalled everything python, gtk, etc. cleared out my path settings
and reinstalled everything including the all in one installer.  Made
some changes to the path and now, finally this is working.  Special
thanks to Stephen George.

I want to say this, and I know this is an OSS software created by hard
working individuals that receive no income for their efforts.  This
program is by far the most insanely difficult thing I have ever
installed before.  I have a degree in computer science, and am a
programmer by trade.  No one should have to massage the path settings
like this, nor install 5 or 6 or 7 separate packages, from different
websites, in a specific order, just to get something to work.  Pidgin
requires GTK, but their installer includes everything one needs to get
it running.  Maybe the windows community doesn't use GRAMPS.  Maybe one
of the reasons is the installer.  There's no way that anyone I know
would be able to get this program installed -- they'd give up way before
step 5.

Looking through the maillist, it's filled with install issues.  I would
suggest, respectfully, that before any new features get created and
developed, that a serious effort is made to fix the user experience.  I
read somewhere, perhaps on the website, perhaps in the maillist that one
of the concerns is the filesize of an all included installer.  We are to
the point where high speed internet is a norm, for the most part, and
the days of dialup are long gone.  Forget about the size concerns of an
installer, really.  I'd rather wait 7 more minutes to download an app
than spend 3 hours tracking down dependencies.  People that don't care
or don't understand the internals of a computer don't want to have to learn.

My two cents.  I certainly hope I haven't ticked anyone off with this,
it's really meant to try to put some perspective on the end-user.  Feel
free to contact me offline - I would be happy to help in any way in
terms of creating a new Windows installer.  I don't have many free
cycles, but I certainly can help.

John

On 1/15/2011 6:26 AM, Stephen George wrote:

> Hi John,
>
>
> From your previous email,
>
>>  import pygtk works OK, but the GTK doesn't.  I installed
>>  gtk-2.12.9-win32-1.exe to C:\Program Files\GTK2-Runtime and added the
>>  following to my path:
>>  C:\Program Files\Python26;C:\Program Files\GTK2-Runtime\bin
>
> It is not clear to me what version of pyGTK you have installed. It'll
> have to be one compatible with gtk-2.12.9, I don't think they all are.
>
> Also you don't mention where in your path you added the GTKruntime, ..
> towards start of path or towards end of path? - prefer toward start of
> path.
>
>
> On 15/01/2011 3:19 PM, John Espiro wrote:
>> Here's the full output of the dependency script - I have all the
>> components installed, I just can't figure this out.:
>
> The only thing that sticks out for me is that it is loading two
> versions of ms runtime, not sure if that could be causing a conflict.
> I wonder if you took 'freemat' off the path ( temporarily ) , if it
> would change behaviour.
>
> Other options worth investigating would be (in no particular order):
>
> pygtk all in one http://www.pygtk.org/downloads.html It is a bigger
> install, but comes bundled with the appropriate gtk runtime. My own
> experience suggests it will work but some people have problems with an
> unhandled exception when going to Gramps  Ancestry View. (if you get
> this problem, and leave it on ancestory view when closing Gramps you
> will not successfully start Gramps again unless you manually edit
> gramps.ini
>
> Unhandled exception
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\Programme\Gramps\plugins\view\pedigreeview.py", line 190,
> in realize
>     self.context = self.window.cairo_create()
> Error: the target surface has been finished
>
>
> Or gramps-aio
> It contains everything needed to run Gramps with one download, and
> installs everything it needs within it's own folder, it is stand
> alone, other things on the system will not affect it.
> There is 32 and 64 bit versions, but I cannot help you with the links,
> previous emails from Josip on this list will have some links, I tried
> clicking a few, but they were dead.
> Hopefully Josip can provided the current links for the 32 bit and 64
> bit versions of gramps -aio
>
> I don't know your requirements, but gramps-aio could be the easiest
> route, if it suits your needs.
>
> Good luck
> Steve
>
>> check_gtk_install.py
>>
>> ==== platform.win32_ver() reports ====
>>    Operating System: XP
>>    Version         : 5.1.2600
>>    Service Pack    : SP3
>>    OS type         : Multiprocessor Free
>>
>> ==== Checking Registry for GTK =====
>>    Version   : 2.12.9
>>    Path      : C:\Program Files\GTK2-Runtime
>>    DllPath   : C:\Program Files\GTK2-Runtime\bin
>>
>> ==== Use win32Api to query short path name for GTK =====
>>    **Cant query short path name, Win32Api not installed
>>      install from http://python.net/crew/mhammond/win32/
>>      if you want this function to work
>>
>> ==== Use ctypes to find dlls ====
>>    OK ... ctypes found dll's in C:\Program Files\GTK2-Runtime\bin
>>
>> ====Checking environment path for other gtk installations====
>>    FOUND: C:\Program Files\Graphviz2.24\bin, Probably OK as appears
>> AFTER
>> runtime path
>>      ***************************************************************
>>      * While there are other installations of GTK DLL's on the path,
>>      * it should be safe as they are on the path AFTER the runtime
>>      * directory.
>>
>> ==== Test import into python ====
>>    Python  version 2.5.1 or above.....   found 2.6.6 ...OK
>>    GTK+    version 2.10.11 or above..... Not Found
>>    pyGTK   version 2.10.6 or above.....  Cannot test, ...GTK+ missing
>>    gobject version 2.12.3 or above.....  Not Found
>>    cairo   version 1.2.6 or above.....   found 1.4.12 ...OK
>>
>> ==== See if libglade installed ====
>>    Glade   importError: DLL load failed: The specified procedure could
>> not be found.
>>
>>
>> ==== Checking with Dependency Walker ====
>>        Please be patient takes some time
>>    Testing file C:\Program
>> Files\Python26\Lib/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/_gtk.pyd
>>      ERROR: c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL     Version
>> 9.0.21022.8
>>      ERROR: c:\program files\intel\wifi\bin\ZLIB1.DLL    Version 1.2.3.0
>>      IESHIMS.DLL         Error dll not found
>>      WER.DLL     Error dll not found
>>
>>      MS runtime Version 9.0.21022.8 loaded from
>>      c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL
>>
>>      MS runtime Version 9.0.30729.4148 loaded from
>>
>> c:\windows\winsxs\x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.4148_x-ww_d495ac4e\MSVCR90.DLL
>>
>>
>>    Testing file C:\Program
>> Files\Python26\Lib/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gobject/_gobject.pyd
>>      ERROR: c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL     Version
>> 9.0.21022.8
>>      IESHIMS.DLL         Error dll not found
>>      WER.DLL     Error dll not found
>>
>>      MS runtime Version 9.0.21022.8 loaded from
>>      c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL
>>
>>      MS runtime Version 9.0.30729.4148 loaded from
>>
>> c:\windows\winsxs\x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.4148_x-ww_d495ac4e\MSVCR90.DLL
>>
>>
>>    Testing file C:\Program
>> Files\Python26\Lib/site-packages/gtk-2.0/pangocairo.pyd
>>      ERROR: c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL     Version
>> 9.0.21022.8
>>      ERROR: c:\program files\intel\wifi\bin\ZLIB1.DLL    Version 1.2.3.0
>>      IESHIMS.DLL         Error dll not found
>>      WER.DLL     Error dll not found
>>
>>      MS runtime Version 9.0.21022.8 loaded from
>>      c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL
>>
>>      MS runtime Version 9.0.30729.4148 loaded from
>>
>> c:\windows\winsxs\x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.4148_x-ww_d495ac4e\MSVCR90.DLL
>>
>>
>
>
>

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Re: Trying to install GRAMPS gramps-3.2.3-1.exe

Josip
On 17.01.2011 04:26, John Espiro wrote:

> I uninstalled everything python, gtk, etc. cleared out my path settings
> and reinstalled everything including the all in one installer.  Made
> some changes to the path and now, finally this is working.  Special
> thanks to Stephen George.
>
> I want to say this, and I know this is an OSS software created by hard
> working individuals that receive no income for their efforts.  This
> program is by far the most insanely difficult thing I have ever
> installed before.  I have a degree in computer science, and am a
> programmer by trade.  No one should have to massage the path settings
> like this, nor install 5 or 6 or 7 separate packages, from different
> websites, in a specific order, just to get something to work.  Pidgin
> requires GTK, but their installer includes everything one needs to get
> it running.  Maybe the windows community doesn't use GRAMPS.  Maybe one
> of the reasons is the installer.  There's no way that anyone I know
> would be able to get this program installed -- they'd give up way before
> step 5.
>
> Looking through the maillist, it's filled with install issues.  I would
> suggest, respectfully, that before any new features get created and
> developed, that a serious effort is made to fix the user experience.  I
> read somewhere, perhaps on the website, perhaps in the maillist that one
> of the concerns is the filesize of an all included installer.  We are to
> the point where high speed internet is a norm, for the most part, and
> the days of dialup are long gone.  Forget about the size concerns of an
> installer, really.  I'd rather wait 7 more minutes to download an app
> than spend 3 hours tracking down dependencies.  People that don't care
> or don't understand the internals of a computer don't want to have to learn.
>
> My two cents.  I certainly hope I haven't ticked anyone off with this,
> it's really meant to try to put some perspective on the end-user.  Feel
> free to contact me offline - I would be happy to help in any way in
> terms of creating a new Windows installer.  I don't have many free
> cycles, but I certainly can help.
>

We are all aware of installing problems for some user but not all user
is aware of this simple facts:
1. Gramps is a python application so can be run as is without install
2. Most OSS project do not provide install for their works, they may add
support for some os or specific distribution of that os but leave
packaging to user of that system as they know him best.

Gramps however do provide install for windows so we can be cynic and say
that gramps provide better support for windows then for os on which he
is grown up :-)

It would be insane to make install for multiple linux flavors when only
thing they need is to inform their package-manager where to find source,
what tools they need to build it and what libraries is necessary to run
it. They all do same thing but do it in different way and project leave
resolving that differences to one who are best for it: packager for that
system.

It is not gramps fault that windows lack decent package managing system
so have not large packagers community.

As last do you check:
http://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Download
there you find four (4) version of gramps install for windows.
Three of them will deal with dependencies for you.

No you haven't "ticked anyone off" cos at the end you do offer your
help;-)


--
Josip

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Re: Trying to install GRAMPS gramps-3.2.3-1.exe

DS Blank
In reply to this post by john espiro
On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 10:26 PM, John Espiro <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I uninstalled everything python, gtk, etc. cleared out my path settings
> and reinstalled everything including the all in one installer.  Made
> some changes to the path and now, finally this is working.  Special
> thanks to Stephen George.
>
> I want to say this, and I know this is an OSS software created by hard
> working individuals that receive no income for their efforts.  This
> program is by far the most insanely difficult thing I have ever
> installed before.  I have a degree in computer science, and am a
> programmer by trade.  No one should have to massage the path settings
> like this, nor install 5 or 6 or 7 separate packages, from different
> websites, in a specific order, just to get something to work.  Pidgin
> requires GTK, but their installer includes everything one needs to get
> it running.  Maybe the windows community doesn't use GRAMPS.  Maybe one
> of the reasons is the installer.  There's no way that anyone I know
> would be able to get this program installed -- they'd give up way before
> step 5.
>
> Looking through the maillist, it's filled with install issues.  I would
> suggest, respectfully, that before any new features get created and
> developed, that a serious effort is made to fix the user experience.  I
> read somewhere, perhaps on the website, perhaps in the maillist that one
> of the concerns is the filesize of an all included installer.  We are to
> the point where high speed internet is a norm, for the most part, and
> the days of dialup are long gone.  Forget about the size concerns of an
> installer, really.  I'd rather wait 7 more minutes to download an app
> than spend 3 hours tracking down dependencies.  People that don't care
> or don't understand the internals of a computer don't want to have to learn.
>
> My two cents.  I certainly hope I haven't ticked anyone off with this,
> it's really meant to try to put some perspective on the end-user.  Feel
> free to contact me offline - I would be happy to help in any way in
> terms of creating a new Windows installer.  I don't have many free
> cycles, but I certainly can help.
>
> John

Welcome to Gramps, and open source, John!

The limitations you list are true, and not unknown to everyone that
has tried to use open source software on Windows. I've recently
blogged about related issues [1].

Two additional points: 1) developers don't generally prioritize things
that they don't (or can't) use need over things they really want. Many
developers don't even own Windows, so one could not expect them to
work on this issue. 2) The dependency problem on Windows is a huge
one, and can't be solved by us. We don't have enough interest, time,
energy, or developers to also solve this Windows problem.

But perhaps you will be interested in joining Gramps and help work on
this issue? As Josip mentioned, there are at least a few different
attempts at the Windows install problem, and you could help make those
work better. Or, another idea is to contribute to something like CoApp
[2]. That approach seems like a good way forward, if you want to
continue to use Windows or open source.

Whatever you decide, we'd be glad to work with you.

-Doug

[1] -  http://gramps-project.org/2010/12/some-thoughts-on-some-thoughts-on-gramps-for-windows/
[2] - http://coapp.org/

> On 1/15/2011 6:26 AM, Stephen George wrote:
>> Hi John,
>>
>>
>> From your previous email,
>>
>>>  import pygtk works OK, but the GTK doesn't.  I installed
>>>  gtk-2.12.9-win32-1.exe to C:\Program Files\GTK2-Runtime and added the
>>>  following to my path:
>>>  C:\Program Files\Python26;C:\Program Files\GTK2-Runtime\bin
>>
>> It is not clear to me what version of pyGTK you have installed. It'll
>> have to be one compatible with gtk-2.12.9, I don't think they all are.
>>
>> Also you don't mention where in your path you added the GTKruntime, ..
>> towards start of path or towards end of path? - prefer toward start of
>> path.
>>
>>
>> On 15/01/2011 3:19 PM, John Espiro wrote:
>>> Here's the full output of the dependency script - I have all the
>>> components installed, I just can't figure this out.:
>>
>> The only thing that sticks out for me is that it is loading two
>> versions of ms runtime, not sure if that could be causing a conflict.
>> I wonder if you took 'freemat' off the path ( temporarily ) , if it
>> would change behaviour.
>>
>> Other options worth investigating would be (in no particular order):
>>
>> pygtk all in one http://www.pygtk.org/downloads.html It is a bigger
>> install, but comes bundled with the appropriate gtk runtime. My own
>> experience suggests it will work but some people have problems with an
>> unhandled exception when going to Gramps  Ancestry View. (if you get
>> this problem, and leave it on ancestory view when closing Gramps you
>> will not successfully start Gramps again unless you manually edit
>> gramps.ini
>>
>> Unhandled exception
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "C:\Programme\Gramps\plugins\view\pedigreeview.py", line 190,
>> in realize
>>     self.context = self.window.cairo_create()
>> Error: the target surface has been finished
>>
>>
>> Or gramps-aio
>> It contains everything needed to run Gramps with one download, and
>> installs everything it needs within it's own folder, it is stand
>> alone, other things on the system will not affect it.
>> There is 32 and 64 bit versions, but I cannot help you with the links,
>> previous emails from Josip on this list will have some links, I tried
>> clicking a few, but they were dead.
>> Hopefully Josip can provided the current links for the 32 bit and 64
>> bit versions of gramps -aio
>>
>> I don't know your requirements, but gramps-aio could be the easiest
>> route, if it suits your needs.
>>
>> Good luck
>> Steve
>>
>>> check_gtk_install.py
>>>
>>> ==== platform.win32_ver() reports ====
>>>    Operating System: XP
>>>    Version         : 5.1.2600
>>>    Service Pack    : SP3
>>>    OS type         : Multiprocessor Free
>>>
>>> ==== Checking Registry for GTK =====
>>>    Version   : 2.12.9
>>>    Path      : C:\Program Files\GTK2-Runtime
>>>    DllPath   : C:\Program Files\GTK2-Runtime\bin
>>>
>>> ==== Use win32Api to query short path name for GTK =====
>>>    **Cant query short path name, Win32Api not installed
>>>      install from http://python.net/crew/mhammond/win32/
>>>      if you want this function to work
>>>
>>> ==== Use ctypes to find dlls ====
>>>    OK ... ctypes found dll's in C:\Program Files\GTK2-Runtime\bin
>>>
>>> ====Checking environment path for other gtk installations====
>>>    FOUND: C:\Program Files\Graphviz2.24\bin, Probably OK as appears
>>> AFTER
>>> runtime path
>>>      ***************************************************************
>>>      * While there are other installations of GTK DLL's on the path,
>>>      * it should be safe as they are on the path AFTER the runtime
>>>      * directory.
>>>
>>> ==== Test import into python ====
>>>    Python  version 2.5.1 or above.....   found 2.6.6 ...OK
>>>    GTK+    version 2.10.11 or above..... Not Found
>>>    pyGTK   version 2.10.6 or above.....  Cannot test, ...GTK+ missing
>>>    gobject version 2.12.3 or above.....  Not Found
>>>    cairo   version 1.2.6 or above.....   found 1.4.12 ...OK
>>>
>>> ==== See if libglade installed ====
>>>    Glade   importError: DLL load failed: The specified procedure could
>>> not be found.
>>>
>>>
>>> ==== Checking with Dependency Walker ====
>>>        Please be patient takes some time
>>>    Testing file C:\Program
>>> Files\Python26\Lib/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/_gtk.pyd
>>>      ERROR: c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL     Version
>>> 9.0.21022.8
>>>      ERROR: c:\program files\intel\wifi\bin\ZLIB1.DLL    Version 1.2.3.0
>>>      IESHIMS.DLL         Error dll not found
>>>      WER.DLL     Error dll not found
>>>
>>>      MS runtime Version 9.0.21022.8 loaded from
>>>      c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL
>>>
>>>      MS runtime Version 9.0.30729.4148 loaded from
>>>
>>> c:\windows\winsxs\x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.4148_x-ww_d495ac4e\MSVCR90.DLL
>>>
>>>
>>>    Testing file C:\Program
>>> Files\Python26\Lib/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gobject/_gobject.pyd
>>>      ERROR: c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL     Version
>>> 9.0.21022.8
>>>      IESHIMS.DLL         Error dll not found
>>>      WER.DLL     Error dll not found
>>>
>>>      MS runtime Version 9.0.21022.8 loaded from
>>>      c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL
>>>
>>>      MS runtime Version 9.0.30729.4148 loaded from
>>>
>>> c:\windows\winsxs\x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.4148_x-ww_d495ac4e\MSVCR90.DLL
>>>
>>>
>>>    Testing file C:\Program
>>> Files\Python26\Lib/site-packages/gtk-2.0/pangocairo.pyd
>>>      ERROR: c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL     Version
>>> 9.0.21022.8
>>>      ERROR: c:\program files\intel\wifi\bin\ZLIB1.DLL    Version 1.2.3.0
>>>      IESHIMS.DLL         Error dll not found
>>>      WER.DLL     Error dll not found
>>>
>>>      MS runtime Version 9.0.21022.8 loaded from
>>>      c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL
>>>
>>>      MS runtime Version 9.0.30729.4148 loaded from
>>>
>>> c:\windows\winsxs\x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.4148_x-ww_d495ac4e\MSVCR90.DLL
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: Trying to install GRAMPS gramps-3.2.3-1.exe

Stephen George

Hi All,

> Or, another idea is to contribute to something like CoApp
> http://coapp.org/

I noticed an announcment over on the pyGTK list the other day for a
windows package manager the interesting thing is it made mention of GRAMPS.
I haven't tried it out as I am happy with my current install, but
thought I would mention it for those who didn't see the original
announcment (which follows)

A lot is happening out there at the moment to simplify the installation
of pyGTK applications under windows, and also within the community the
aio packages simplify installations for end users. (only one download )

- Steve


On 30/12/2010 4:43 AM, Tim Lebedkov wrote:

> Hello,
>
> as announced in September the new version of Npackd
> (http://code.google.com/p/windows-package-manager/)
> is ready and now also supports dependencies between packages.
>
> Thanks to the great work of Dieter Verfaillie (MSI packages) and the
> help of Alessandro Dentella
> all the dependencies necessary for a PyGTK application are already
> in-place (GTK+, PyGTK, PyGObject, PyCairo).
> If you want to use Npackd to distribute your PyGTK-application, it
> would be probably enough to
> zip your .py files and define the dependencies.
>
> There is a PyGTK application in the repository, if you want to try it
> out: GRAMPS.
>
> Regards
> --Tim
> _______________________________________________
> pygtk mailing list   [hidden email]
> http://www.daa.com.au/mailman/listinfo/pygtk
> Read the PyGTK FAQ: http://faq.pygtk.org/
>




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Re: Trying to install GRAMPS gramps-3.2.3-1.exe

john espiro
In reply to this post by DS Blank
First I have to say that the responses to my message are very
interesting.  1.) I have VMware and every flavor of Windows out there
(minus Windows 7).  I'd be happy to test and produce builds.  If someone
wants to contact me offlist, and we can coordinate, that would be great.
2.) I didn't see the alternative installers on that download page.  For
some reason I skipped over it.

I like the portable installer, that's great, btw.  And the AIO looks
like exactly what I was saying is missing.  So why would anyone not
choose one of those two setups and opt for the first (manual) one?

John

On 1/17/2011 4:12 PM, Doug Blank wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 10:26 PM, John Espiro <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I uninstalled everything python, gtk, etc. cleared out my path settings
>> and reinstalled everything including the all in one installer.  Made
>> some changes to the path and now, finally this is working.  Special
>> thanks to Stephen George.
>>
>> I want to say this, and I know this is an OSS software created by hard
>> working individuals that receive no income for their efforts.  This
>> program is by far the most insanely difficult thing I have ever
>> installed before.  I have a degree in computer science, and am a
>> programmer by trade.  No one should have to massage the path settings
>> like this, nor install 5 or 6 or 7 separate packages, from different
>> websites, in a specific order, just to get something to work.  Pidgin
>> requires GTK, but their installer includes everything one needs to get
>> it running.  Maybe the windows community doesn't use GRAMPS.  Maybe one
>> of the reasons is the installer.  There's no way that anyone I know
>> would be able to get this program installed -- they'd give up way before
>> step 5.
>>
>> Looking through the maillist, it's filled with install issues.  I would
>> suggest, respectfully, that before any new features get created and
>> developed, that a serious effort is made to fix the user experience.  I
>> read somewhere, perhaps on the website, perhaps in the maillist that one
>> of the concerns is the filesize of an all included installer.  We are to
>> the point where high speed internet is a norm, for the most part, and
>> the days of dialup are long gone.  Forget about the size concerns of an
>> installer, really.  I'd rather wait 7 more minutes to download an app
>> than spend 3 hours tracking down dependencies.  People that don't care
>> or don't understand the internals of a computer don't want to have to learn.
>>
>> My two cents.  I certainly hope I haven't ticked anyone off with this,
>> it's really meant to try to put some perspective on the end-user.  Feel
>> free to contact me offline - I would be happy to help in any way in
>> terms of creating a new Windows installer.  I don't have many free
>> cycles, but I certainly can help.
>>
>> John
> Welcome to Gramps, and open source, John!
>
> The limitations you list are true, and not unknown to everyone that
> has tried to use open source software on Windows. I've recently
> blogged about related issues [1].
>
> Two additional points: 1) developers don't generally prioritize things
> that they don't (or can't) use need over things they really want. Many
> developers don't even own Windows, so one could not expect them to
> work on this issue. 2) The dependency problem on Windows is a huge
> one, and can't be solved by us. We don't have enough interest, time,
> energy, or developers to also solve this Windows problem.
>
> But perhaps you will be interested in joining Gramps and help work on
> this issue? As Josip mentioned, there are at least a few different
> attempts at the Windows install problem, and you could help make those
> work better. Or, another idea is to contribute to something like CoApp
> [2]. That approach seems like a good way forward, if you want to
> continue to use Windows or open source.
>
> Whatever you decide, we'd be glad to work with you.
>
> -Doug
>
> [1] -  http://gramps-project.org/2010/12/some-thoughts-on-some-thoughts-on-gramps-for-windows/
> [2] - http://coapp.org/
>
>> On 1/15/2011 6:26 AM, Stephen George wrote:
>>> Hi John,
>>>
>>>
>>> From your previous email,
>>>
>>>>  import pygtk works OK, but the GTK doesn't.  I installed
>>>>  gtk-2.12.9-win32-1.exe to C:\Program Files\GTK2-Runtime and added the
>>>>  following to my path:
>>>>  C:\Program Files\Python26;C:\Program Files\GTK2-Runtime\bin
>>> It is not clear to me what version of pyGTK you have installed. It'll
>>> have to be one compatible with gtk-2.12.9, I don't think they all are.
>>>
>>> Also you don't mention where in your path you added the GTKruntime, ..
>>> towards start of path or towards end of path? - prefer toward start of
>>> path.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 15/01/2011 3:19 PM, John Espiro wrote:
>>>> Here's the full output of the dependency script - I have all the
>>>> components installed, I just can't figure this out.:
>>> The only thing that sticks out for me is that it is loading two
>>> versions of ms runtime, not sure if that could be causing a conflict.
>>> I wonder if you took 'freemat' off the path ( temporarily ) , if it
>>> would change behaviour.
>>>
>>> Other options worth investigating would be (in no particular order):
>>>
>>> pygtk all in one http://www.pygtk.org/downloads.html It is a bigger
>>> install, but comes bundled with the appropriate gtk runtime. My own
>>> experience suggests it will work but some people have problems with an
>>> unhandled exception when going to Gramps  Ancestry View. (if you get
>>> this problem, and leave it on ancestory view when closing Gramps you
>>> will not successfully start Gramps again unless you manually edit
>>> gramps.ini
>>>
>>> Unhandled exception
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>   File "C:\Programme\Gramps\plugins\view\pedigreeview.py", line 190,
>>> in realize
>>>     self.context = self.window.cairo_create()
>>> Error: the target surface has been finished
>>>
>>>
>>> Or gramps-aio
>>> It contains everything needed to run Gramps with one download, and
>>> installs everything it needs within it's own folder, it is stand
>>> alone, other things on the system will not affect it.
>>> There is 32 and 64 bit versions, but I cannot help you with the links,
>>> previous emails from Josip on this list will have some links, I tried
>>> clicking a few, but they were dead.
>>> Hopefully Josip can provided the current links for the 32 bit and 64
>>> bit versions of gramps -aio
>>>
>>> I don't know your requirements, but gramps-aio could be the easiest
>>> route, if it suits your needs.
>>>
>>> Good luck
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>> check_gtk_install.py
>>>>
>>>> ==== platform.win32_ver() reports ====
>>>>    Operating System: XP
>>>>    Version         : 5.1.2600
>>>>    Service Pack    : SP3
>>>>    OS type         : Multiprocessor Free
>>>>
>>>> ==== Checking Registry for GTK =====
>>>>    Version   : 2.12.9
>>>>    Path      : C:\Program Files\GTK2-Runtime
>>>>    DllPath   : C:\Program Files\GTK2-Runtime\bin
>>>>
>>>> ==== Use win32Api to query short path name for GTK =====
>>>>    **Cant query short path name, Win32Api not installed
>>>>      install from http://python.net/crew/mhammond/win32/
>>>>      if you want this function to work
>>>>
>>>> ==== Use ctypes to find dlls ====
>>>>    OK ... ctypes found dll's in C:\Program Files\GTK2-Runtime\bin
>>>>
>>>> ====Checking environment path for other gtk installations====
>>>>    FOUND: C:\Program Files\Graphviz2.24\bin, Probably OK as appears
>>>> AFTER
>>>> runtime path
>>>>      ***************************************************************
>>>>      * While there are other installations of GTK DLL's on the path,
>>>>      * it should be safe as they are on the path AFTER the runtime
>>>>      * directory.
>>>>
>>>> ==== Test import into python ====
>>>>    Python  version 2.5.1 or above.....   found 2.6.6 ...OK
>>>>    GTK+    version 2.10.11 or above..... Not Found
>>>>    pyGTK   version 2.10.6 or above.....  Cannot test, ...GTK+ missing
>>>>    gobject version 2.12.3 or above.....  Not Found
>>>>    cairo   version 1.2.6 or above.....   found 1.4.12 ...OK
>>>>
>>>> ==== See if libglade installed ====
>>>>    Glade   importError: DLL load failed: The specified procedure could
>>>> not be found.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ==== Checking with Dependency Walker ====
>>>>        Please be patient takes some time
>>>>    Testing file C:\Program
>>>> Files\Python26\Lib/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/_gtk.pyd
>>>>      ERROR: c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL     Version
>>>> 9.0.21022.8
>>>>      ERROR: c:\program files\intel\wifi\bin\ZLIB1.DLL    Version 1.2.3.0
>>>>      IESHIMS.DLL         Error dll not found
>>>>      WER.DLL     Error dll not found
>>>>
>>>>      MS runtime Version 9.0.21022.8 loaded from
>>>>      c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL
>>>>
>>>>      MS runtime Version 9.0.30729.4148 loaded from
>>>>
>>>> c:\windows\winsxs\x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.4148_x-ww_d495ac4e\MSVCR90.DLL
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Testing file C:\Program
>>>> Files\Python26\Lib/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gobject/_gobject.pyd
>>>>      ERROR: c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL     Version
>>>> 9.0.21022.8
>>>>      IESHIMS.DLL         Error dll not found
>>>>      WER.DLL     Error dll not found
>>>>
>>>>      MS runtime Version 9.0.21022.8 loaded from
>>>>      c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL
>>>>
>>>>      MS runtime Version 9.0.30729.4148 loaded from
>>>>
>>>> c:\windows\winsxs\x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.4148_x-ww_d495ac4e\MSVCR90.DLL
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Testing file C:\Program
>>>> Files\Python26\Lib/site-packages/gtk-2.0/pangocairo.pyd
>>>>      ERROR: c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL     Version
>>>> 9.0.21022.8
>>>>      ERROR: c:\program files\intel\wifi\bin\ZLIB1.DLL    Version 1.2.3.0
>>>>      IESHIMS.DLL         Error dll not found
>>>>      WER.DLL     Error dll not found
>>>>
>>>>      MS runtime Version 9.0.21022.8 loaded from
>>>>      c:\program files\freemat\bin\MSVCR90.DLL
>>>>
>>>>      MS runtime Version 9.0.30729.4148 loaded from
>>>>
>>>> c:\windows\winsxs\x86_microsoft.vc90.crt_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_9.0.30729.4148_x-ww_d495ac4e\MSVCR90.DLL
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: Trying to install GRAMPS gramps-3.2.3-1.exe

Stephen George
Hi John,


> I like the portable installer, that's great, btw.  And the AIO looks like exactly what I was saying is missing.

> So why would anyone not choose one of those two setups and opt for the first (manual) one?

The aio versions have only just emerged in the last couple of months, it
is currently settling down, and becoming more stable.
The manual installer has been around for a number of years, once you
have a working pyGTK environment, then the manual installer is never a
problem.

I think you will see the landscape change after the next GRAMPS release
with users reaching for the aio version first (or encouraged to use the
aio) before thinking of the manual one.

- Steve

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