Why source a person?

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Why source a person?

Martin Steer-2
I'm wondering why you would ever want to add a source to a person. If
they have a name, you can source that. Likewise for events, attributes
and relationships. It seems to me that a person per se isn't
information.

Martin

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Re: Why source a person?

Tony Gordon
On Mon, 2012-03-05 at 17:23 +1100, Martin Steer wrote:
I'm wondering why you would ever want to add a source to a person. If
they have a name, you can source that. Likewise for events, attributes
and relationships. It seems to me that a person per se isn't
information.

Martin

Martin

That the person exists (or existed) at all is information. I use the source for a person as a record of how I first knew the person existed. This could be quite different from where I find other information on that person. For some people in my database, that is the only entry I have for them.

Like a lot of things in Gramps you can use it (or not) as you wish.

Tony
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Re: Why source a person?

Tim Lyons
Administrator
In reply to this post by Martin Steer-2
(Just as a matter of fact, having a source on a person is part of the GEDCOM standard.)

I would expect that some (many? most?) people would simply attach the sources for all the information they know about the person to the person object. That is much better than not recording sources at all.

If you try to work out exactly what pieces of information are supported by a particular source, then it becomes very complicated, very rapidly. For example, a census record might provide evidence of the existence of the person (so attached to the person), evidence of his date of birth, place of birth, name, sex, address (at the time), that he was a participant in the census event etc.

In fact it is so complicated that you really need automation to record the data, hence GEPS 024.
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Re: Why source a person?

Nick Hall-6
In reply to this post by Tony Gordon
On 05/03/12 07:23, Tony Gordon wrote:
On Mon, 2012-03-05 at 17:23 +1100, Martin Steer wrote:
I'm wondering why you would ever want to add a source to a person. If
they have a name, you can source that. Likewise for events, attributes
and relationships. It seems to me that a person per se isn't
information.

Martin

Martin

That the person exists (or existed) at all is information. I use the source for a person as a record of how I first knew the person existed.

I suppose all sources of information for the person would also be evidence that the person existed.  When I first started using Gramps I added a person source whenever I added a piece of information for the person.  I ended up by duplicating sources.  Now I don't add person sources at all.

Using the person source to record how you first knew the person existed is a good idea.


Nick.


This could be quite different from where I find other information on that person. For some people in my database, that is the only entry I have for them.

Like a lot of things in Gramps you can use it (or not) as you wish.

Tony
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Re : Why source a person?

jerome
In reply to this post by Martin Steer-2
Hello,


I aim to use one rule during my seizure about 'source a person'!
Around 13% of my sources are related to "end of line" ancestors.
These sources also have a private note with the name, addresses, mails of common distant cousins. ie. for me, 'to source a person' action is like marking common ancestors: where I stopped, but I want to go further.

This is not a source about naming, rather about validation and searchs.
So, I only use it on 'end of line' with few informations (no family, events or others attached records) for this person/ancestor. I can try to resume it by investigation, like mark/piton on climbing: this is not fixed/hardcoded and I move it to the next step. In association with tags, I made my search plans. This is one rule on my primary database.

I also maintain others family trees with all records about people with the same surname as my parents. So, the search is different with these bases, often online and some private or public indexes/collections. I hope to find a relationship with one of my records into my main/primary base but I do not have distant cousins (common record) yet... That's why I do not use 'source person' on these others family trees!

http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=User:Romjerome#How_Gramps_helps_me_to_practise_genealogy_?


Best regards,
Jérôme


--- En date de : Lun 5.3.12, Martin Steer <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> De: Martin Steer <[hidden email]>
> Objet: [Gramps-users] Why source a person?
> À: [hidden email]
> Date: Lundi 5 mars 2012, 7h23
> I'm wondering why you would ever want
> to add a source to a person. If
> they have a name, you can source that. Likewise for events,
> attributes
> and relationships. It seems to me that a person per se
> isn't
> information.
>
> Martin
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Try before you buy = See our experts in action!
> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft
> developers
> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5,
> CSS3, MVC3,
> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you
> subscribe now!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>

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Re: Re : Why source a person?

Helge@Gramps
Hi all,

currently I still add a duplicate of all sources related to a person (direct or by an event) to Person Sources. It's a lot of work, but I do that because during my researches I more or less often go back into the original documents [person --> source --> gallery --> media] if there are differences between older and newer data. And I don't want to search sources within events.
Because up today I didn't found a way to see all sources related direct or indirect by events to a person in ONE list for direct access I go this way. But may be some one knows a better way to do that.
If some time in the future e.g. the  Person Sources Gramplet will present all these information (I would like also the direct access to the media [source --> gallery --> media]) I'll remove the sources from all or the most persons.
-Helge
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Re: Why source a person?

Martin Steer-2
In reply to this post by Martin Steer-2
On Mon, Mar 05, 2012 at 05:13:40AM -0800, Tim Lyons wrote:
>
>I would expect that some (many? most?) people would simply attach the
>sources for all the information they know about the person to the person
>object. That is much better than not recording sources at all.

Something is better than nothing.

>If you try to work out exactly what pieces of information are supported by a
>particular source, then it becomes very complicated, very rapidly. For
>example, a census record might provide evidence of the existence of the
>person (so attached to the person), evidence of his date of birth, place of
>birth, name, sex, address (at the time), that he was a participant in the
>census event etc.

But as Gramps stands now, the basic task isn't complicated:

birth, place of birth -> birth event + source
name + source
address + source
census event + source

My point, apparently not very well made, was that it is such things as
this which are evidence for existence. Without them, you have a dataless
person in your database (which Gramps won't allow. It will allow someone
about whom only the sex is known).

Tony and Jerome have both found ingenious uses for the slot provided by
a person source, but the uses they have found have more the character of
a research note than a source proper (a source responds to the question,
'How do I know that...?'). This I think goes to prove my point, that
it's a slot looking for a function.

Won't reference to this kind of special source appear in a report? Is
that desirable?

I wonder too about the argument that Gramps provides it, but you don't
have to use it. There is a point at which choice becomes a liability. To
my mind, a database should impose structure, not just allow it.
Otherwise we could just use gedcom.

Martin

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