Why tree-structure?

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Why tree-structure?

Michelle Engel
Hi,

why are people organized in the tree view? Why not just a list of all
people? I know, that list would be very long, but I think with a good
search/filter function it's much easier to move around.

I would prefer this.
What do other people think? Would it be technical possible?

What I'm thinking of to navigate around, is a little window like the one
that appears no, if you type a name, the cursor jumping to the first
appearance of this name.
Another advantage, beside clear layout, is the possibility to sort the
entries by different values: first name, last name, birth date, etc.

So, what do the users think? What do de programmers think?

Michelle


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Re: Why tree-structure?

Thomas Astleitner-2
i'd like to see also a whole list of all entries in a construct view, like a
real tree. when you look at one, you can see the branches on the left also
then on the right, on one view.
that would be great to give members of the family an overview of the project.
of course, that's getting a lot in some cases, but wo cares...

greets!
thomas

Am Freitag, 15. Juli 2005 14:44 schrieb Michelle Engel:

> Hi,
>
> why are people organized in the tree view? Why not just a list of all
> people? I know, that list would be very long, but I think with a good
> search/filter function it's much easier to move around.
>
> I would prefer this.
> What do other people think? Would it be technical possible?
>
> What I'm thinking of to navigate around, is a little window like the one
> that appears no, if you type a name, the cursor jumping to the first
> appearance of this name.
> Another advantage, beside clear layout, is the possibility to sort the
> entries by different values: first name, last name, birth date, etc.
>
> So, what do the users think? What do de programmers think?
>
> Michelle
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies
> from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles,
> informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to
> speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477&alloc_id=16492&op=click
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users


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Re: Why tree-structure?

Don Allingham
In reply to this post by Michelle Engel
Michelle,

Hopefully I can give you a little insight here.

GRAMPS originally had a single, flat list back when it was a GTK 1.X
application (around verision 0.8 and before). At that point, we were not
attempting to handle large amounts of data. GTK 2.0 came out, and the
list and tree structures became very slow and consumed a lot of memory.
At the same time, the need to handle more data became apparent.

In an effort to improve speed in the 1.0.X version, we split the list
into multiple tabs, so that all the A's were in one tab, the B's in
another, etc. This improved things considerably, but the lists were
still too slow. So we switched to the Tree structure, which improved
things a lot more. Where we finally got our big performance improvement
was when we switched to only loading data from the database when a tree
entry was expanded. We were able to drop the list load times from 2 or 3
minutes to about 10 seconds.

When we were redesigning the code for the 2.0 versions, we completely
rearchitected the code, and avoided using the standard GTK TreeView.
Instead, we built a custom interface using a GenericTreeModel. This cut
down our memory usage, and allowed us to get really good performance.
And we continue to try to fine tune this code all the time.

So, that is the history, but it doesn't answer your question. The short
answer to your question is, "Yes, it is possible, and we can do it."

That being said, we have a few issues.

* Performance will probably be worse, since there will always be more
  data on the screen.
* Some people may have problems scrolling through 10K-20K or more people
  in a single list. Advanced users can easily adapt to filters and
  searches, but we have many users who are novices. We want to make sure
  that everyone can use the program.
* One of the biggest issues is that we are simply short of time, and we
  have a lot of jobs to tackle. Most of our time is usually taken up by
  assisting users and debugging problems. If we could get more people
  helping, we could make faster progress.

Now, for the good news:

We are working on the next development release (2.1/2.2). Martin
Hawlisch and Richard Taylor developed the idea of "pluggable views",
would allow us to easily create new views into the database. With this
new architecture, adding a List View in addition to a Tree View would
not be difficult - only a few hours of work. This new architecture would
solve the issues I listed above, since you will be able to select the
view that works for you. Work on the pluggable views has already
begun, but it will be a while before this is ready.

So, again, yes, it is possible, and yes, we will probably do this. It is
simply a matter of time and resources.

Don

Michelle Engel wrote:

> Hi,
>
> why are people organized in the tree view? Why not just a list of all
> people? I know, that list would be very long, but I think with a good
> search/filter function it's much easier to move around.
>
> I would prefer this.
> What do other people think? Would it be technical possible?
>
> What I'm thinking of to navigate around, is a little window like the one
> that appears no, if you type a name, the cursor jumping to the first
> appearance of this name.
> Another advantage, beside clear layout, is the possibility to sort the
> entries by different values: first name, last name, birth date, etc.
>
> So, what do the users think? What do de programmers think?
>
> Michelle


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Re: Why tree-structure?

Michelle Engel
In reply to this post by Thomas Astleitner-2
Hi Thomas,

I think you misunderstood me - I was talking about the list of surnames.
They are not in one big list, but in a tree structure, one branch for
every surname. This is a tree in a matter of graph-theorie, not a
family-tree.

But what you mentioned, would be a nice too. I think it's called an
hour-glass-chart. One person in the middle, ancestors on the left,
descendants on the right (or top/bottom).

Michelle

Thomas Astleitner schrieb:

> i'd like to see also a whole list of all entries in a construct view, like a
> real tree. when you look at one, you can see the branches on the left also
> then on the right, on one view.
> that would be great to give members of the family an overview of the project.
> of course, that's getting a lot in some cases, but wo cares...
>
> greets!
> thomas
>
> Am Freitag, 15. Juli 2005 14:44 schrieb Michelle Engel:
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>why are people organized in the tree view? Why not just a list of all
>>people? I know, that list would be very long, but I think with a good
>>search/filter function it's much easier to move around.
>>
>>I would prefer this.
>>What do other people think? Would it be technical possible?
>>
>>What I'm thinking of to navigate around, is a little window like the one
>>that appears no, if you type a name, the cursor jumping to the first
>>appearance of this name.
>>Another advantage, beside clear layout, is the possibility to sort the
>>entries by different values: first name, last name, birth date, etc.
>>
>>So, what do the users think? What do de programmers think?
>>
>>Michelle
>>
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------
>>SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies
>>from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles,
>>informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to
>>speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477&alloc_id=16492&op=click
>>_______________________________________________
>>Gramps-users mailing list
>>[hidden email]
>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies
> from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles,
> informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to
> speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477&alloc_id=16492&op=click
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>


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Re: Why tree-structure?

Michelle Engel-2
In reply to this post by Don Allingham
Dear Don,

thanks a lot for your quick and detailed answer and excuse me for
answering again so late!

I understand why it is a tree, watching the history. I do remember the
tabs, the tree is better than that, I was happy when it changed.

A big point is the usability for novices, I'm sure, a novice won't
understand the filters, I have problems sometimes, too...

But at all, your answer "over-fulfilled" my expectations. I'm looking
forward to the "pluggable views" and the list view - I think this is
really a perfect solution, because that way everyone can choose the view
he likes best.

Thank you,
Michelle

Don Allingham schrieb:

> Michelle,
>
> Hopefully I can give you a little insight here.
>
> GRAMPS originally had a single, flat list back when it was a GTK 1.X
> application (around verision 0.8 and before). At that point, we were not
> attempting to handle large amounts of data. GTK 2.0 came out, and the
> list and tree structures became very slow and consumed a lot of memory.
> At the same time, the need to handle more data became apparent.
>
> In an effort to improve speed in the 1.0.X version, we split the list
> into multiple tabs, so that all the A's were in one tab, the B's in
> another, etc. This improved things considerably, but the lists were
> still too slow. So we switched to the Tree structure, which improved
> things a lot more. Where we finally got our big performance improvement
> was when we switched to only loading data from the database when a tree
> entry was expanded. We were able to drop the list load times from 2 or 3
> minutes to about 10 seconds.
>
> When we were redesigning the code for the 2.0 versions, we completely
> rearchitected the code, and avoided using the standard GTK TreeView.
> Instead, we built a custom interface using a GenericTreeModel. This cut
> down our memory usage, and allowed us to get really good performance.
> And we continue to try to fine tune this code all the time.
>
> So, that is the history, but it doesn't answer your question. The short
> answer to your question is, "Yes, it is possible, and we can do it."
>
> That being said, we have a few issues.
>
> * Performance will probably be worse, since there will always be more
>   data on the screen.
> * Some people may have problems scrolling through 10K-20K or more people
>   in a single list. Advanced users can easily adapt to filters and
>   searches, but we have many users who are novices. We want to make sure
>   that everyone can use the program.
> * One of the biggest issues is that we are simply short of time, and we
>   have a lot of jobs to tackle. Most of our time is usually taken up by
>   assisting users and debugging problems. If we could get more people
>   helping, we could make faster progress.
>
> Now, for the good news:
>
> We are working on the next development release (2.1/2.2). Martin
> Hawlisch and Richard Taylor developed the idea of "pluggable views",
> would allow us to easily create new views into the database. With this
> new architecture, adding a List View in addition to a Tree View would
> not be difficult - only a few hours of work. This new architecture would
> solve the issues I listed above, since you will be able to select the
> view that works for you. Work on the pluggable views has already
> begun, but it will be a while before this is ready.
>
> So, again, yes, it is possible, and yes, we will probably do this. It is
> simply a matter of time and resources.
>
> Don
>
> Michelle Engel wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>why are people organized in the tree view? Why not just a list of all
>>people? I know, that list would be very long, but I think with a good
>>search/filter function it's much easier to move around.
>>
>>I would prefer this.
>>What do other people think? Would it be technical possible?
>>
>>What I'm thinking of to navigate around, is a little window like the one
>>that appears no, if you type a name, the cursor jumping to the first
>>appearance of this name.
>>Another advantage, beside clear layout, is the possibility to sort the
>>entries by different values: first name, last name, birth date, etc.
>>
>>So, what do the users think? What do de programmers think?
>>
>>Michelle
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies
> from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles,
> informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to
> speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477&alloc_id=16492&op=click
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users
>


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