Windows 8 development

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Windows 8 development

enno
Hi,

Three days ago, I bought a brand new Windows 8 system from Aldi, and
then destroyed the factory configuration by trying to install Xubuntu
12.10. Thanks to the recovery DVD's, it's up and running again, and
really clean, i.e. without the preloaded software, giving me a chance to
install what I really want.

But now I have a problem. Since I don't want to destroy its
configuration once again, I can now either install Xubuntu in a virtual
machine, and work on translations and small stuff like I did before, or
try the Windows (8) way, maybe even on trunk.

So, here's the big question: Does anyone have a working development
environment on Windows 8 that is documented in such a way that I can try
it too? I'd like to try that, because I like the Windows evernote
client, and I want to try to integrate evernote and gramps for notes.

I don't plan to build an app. It's just to stay up to date with gramps34
or trunk in a safe way, and try new things.

thanks,

Enno


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Re : Windows 8 development

jerome
> I can now either install Xubuntu in a virtual machine, and work on translations and small stuff like I did before, or try the Windows (8) way, maybe even on trunk.

The virtual marchine seems to be the 'easier' way!

http://www.linuxfoundation.org/news-media/blogs/browse/2012/10/linux-foundation-uefi-secure-boot-system-open-source

Also, for having gramps' environment (libs, binding) and trunk.

http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_029:_GTK3-GObject_introspection_Conversion#Installation



--- En date de : Sam 15.12.12, Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> De: Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]>
> Objet: [Gramps-devel] Windows 8 development
> À: "Gramps Development List" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Samedi 15 décembre 2012, 16h43
> Hi,
>
> Three days ago, I bought a brand new Windows 8 system from
> Aldi, and
> then destroyed the factory configuration by trying to
> install Xubuntu
> 12.10. Thanks to the recovery DVD's, it's up and running
> again, and
> really clean, i.e. without the preloaded software, giving me
> a chance to
> install what I really want.
>
> But now I have a problem. Since I don't want to destroy its
>
> configuration once again, I can now either install Xubuntu
> in a virtual
> machine, and work on translations and small stuff like I did
> before, or
> try the Windows (8) way, maybe even on trunk.
>
> So, here's the big question: Does anyone have a working
> development
> environment on Windows 8 that is documented in such a way
> that I can try
> it too? I'd like to try that, because I like the Windows
> evernote
> client, and I want to try to integrate evernote and gramps
> for notes.
>
> I don't plan to build an app. It's just to stay up to date
> with gramps34
> or trunk in a safe way, and try new things.
>
> thanks,
>
> Enno
>
>
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Re: Re : Windows 8 development

Benny Malengier
I think trunk on windows will have to be done first by some experienced windows developers. so on windows, you will probably be stuck with gramps34 for some time to come.

For gramps34, just install gramps with the windows installer. Once you have that, I _think_ (don't use windows, but this is python) using branch is just a matter of renaming the gramps dir that was installed and using the old dirname to put the latest gramps34 code.

Benny

2012/12/16 jerome <[hidden email]>
aving gramps' environment (li


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Re: Re : Windows 8 development

enno

Hi Benny,
I think trunk on windows will have to be done first by some experienced windows developers. so on windows, you will probably be stuck with gramps34 for some time to come.
OK, makes sense.

> For gramps34, just install gramps with the windows installer. Once you have that, I _think_ (don't use windows, but this is python) using branch > is just a matter of renaming the gramps dir that was installed and using the old dirname to put the latest gramps34 code.
 
H'm, I read something about that on the wiki, but it is not clear to me whether I can use new translations then. I mean, they have to be installed somewhere, don't they?
 
Also, on Windows 7, and probably 8 too, it is very difficult to make manual changes in a program folder. I found that out when installing routes in Train Simulator. When I put new files inside the program folder inside Program Files to install routes that came without their own setup program, they didn't seem to work, and when I looked in the program folder later, I found that all files were removed by windows. It seems to have some mechanism to protect the contents of the program folders in a way that reverts all manual changes without informing the user. This mechanism has a name, that I don't recall right now, but I know that it exists.
 
I will try to install the AIO version in D:\ and see if that can work. I'm still not sure about locales however.
 
thanks for replying,
 
Enno
 

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Re: Windows 8 development

enno
In reply to this post by jerome
Hi Jerome,

> The virtual marchine seems to be the 'easier' way!
> http://www.linuxfoundation.org/news-media/blogs/browse/2012/10/linux-foundation-uefi-secure-boot-system-open-source

Thank you for posting this link. I read a lot of tricks on a variety of
forums, and they seem to be dangerous for people like me, who don't know
much about this UEFI stuff. When you mess things up, Windows tells you to
call for help, or to return your system, which is something that I'd rather
not do, because I really like to manage my PC myself.

Switching UEFI off in the BIOS seems to help a bit sometimes, but I get the
feeling that that also influences Windows 8 in a way that I don't still
understand, so I think that I will follow your advice for now, or keep the
old PC for development. It's still on my desk, so ...

> Also, for having gramps' environment (libs, binding) and trunk.
> http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_029:_GTK3-GObject_introspection_Conversion#Installation

Thanks for that too. I didn't try trunk yet, but with this information, I
feel more safe to try that some time.

Can you or anyone else tell me whether it is useful for the community to
experiment with 3.4 on Windows 8? Some people say that apps in Windows 8
will make the classic desktop PC obsolete, and I know that Ancestry already
has an app for Windows 8. It's still read-only, but I think that it will get
the same editing capabilities as its Android counterpart.

And with that in mind, I suspect that spending any time on 3.4 for Windows 8
is sort of a waste, except for bug fixing of course.

thanks,

Enno


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Re: Re : Windows 8 development

Helge@Gramps
In reply to this post by enno
Hi Enno,

I did install GrampsAOI always into an other folder than the program
folder because it's easier to change something. It runs without trouble
on Win7 using this way.
The default locale for GrampsAOI is the Win7 locale. To change this I
use a batch containing this (LANG and LANGUAGE are the environment
variables to be manipulated):
@rem GrampsAOI install path for easy changes separated
@set GrampsPath=C:\ProgrammePython\GrampsAIO64_342
@rem Command file to set German language (special case here) for Gramps
SET LANG=de_DE.UTF8
SET LANGUAGE=de_DE.UTF8

set GRAMPSHOME=D:\GRAMPSHOME\gramps34
@rem prepare the start of Gramps
C:
cd "%GrampsPath%\bin"

@echo Win7 Professional 64Bit German
@rem call for version information
python.exe -EO "%GrampsPath%\share\gramps\gramps.py" -v
@rem start Gramps
python.exe -EO "%GrampsPath%\share\gramps\gramps.py"
@rem using PAUSE to see all messages after closing Gramps
pause
______________

In the past I could use this way with some additions (const.py.in to
const.py; compile the latest .po to .mo) also to run trunk. But
currently the environment of GrampsAOI3.4 doesn't match the requirements
of trunk.

-Helge


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Re: Windows 8 development

Benny Malengier
In reply to this post by enno


2012/12/16 Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]>

Can you or anyone else tell me whether it is useful for the community to
experiment with 3.4 on Windows 8? Some people say that apps in Windows 8
will make the classic desktop PC obsolete, and I know that Ancestry already
has an app for Windows 8. It's still read-only, but I think that it will get
the same editing capabilities as its Android counterpart.

That is bullshit. Programs are programs. They perform a function. If they do that well, people will use them. I see people still using dos programs today (a restaurant I go has a 386 computer for his checkout :-), it works, why should we tell him to invest and spend money?).

Visual style will change, but as a keyboard and mouse driven interface, Gramps need not change. For a touch driven interface, things must change. I don't feel limited at the moment on my laptop however for the fact I don't have a touch screen, so the drive to change to touch is not really big.

Note, a touch interface needs larger interaction area than a mouse (eg, selecting a row in list). So you will see less content, which is not really great for research of your genealogy..

Anyway, if Apple starts shipping a Mac OS X with phone apps as Win 8, then I might start to worry, but for now I think it's a joke useful for content consumers only. In the end, even Win 8 users will install VLC with all the bells and whistles.

Benny


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Re: Windows 8 development

jerome
In reply to this post by enno
Note, maybe you forgot to say if it is Windows 8, Pro or Windows RT?
 32 or 64 bit?


--- En date de : Dim 16.12.12, Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> De: Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]>
> Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] Windows 8 development
> À: "jerome" <[hidden email]>, "Gramps Development List" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Dimanche 16 décembre 2012, 14h52
> Hi Jerome,
>
> > The virtual marchine seems to be the 'easier' way!
> > http://www.linuxfoundation.org/news-media/blogs/browse/2012/10/linux-foundation-uefi-secure-boot-system-open-source
>
> Thank you for posting this link. I read a lot of tricks on a
> variety of forums, and they seem to be dangerous for people
> like me, who don't know much about this UEFI stuff. When you
> mess things up, Windows tells you to call for help, or to
> return your system, which is something that I'd rather not
> do, because I really like to manage my PC myself.
>
> Switching UEFI off in the BIOS seems to help a bit
> sometimes, but I get the feeling that that also influences
> Windows 8 in a way that I don't still understand, so I think
> that I will follow your advice for now, or keep the old PC
> for development. It's still on my desk, so ...
>
> > Also, for having gramps' environment (libs, binding)
> and trunk.
> > http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_029:_GTK3-GObject_introspection_Conversion#Installation
>
> Thanks for that too. I didn't try trunk yet, but with this
> information, I feel more safe to try that some time.
>
> Can you or anyone else tell me whether it is useful for the
> community to experiment with 3.4 on Windows 8? Some people
> say that apps in Windows 8 will make the classic desktop PC
> obsolete, and I know that Ancestry already has an app for
> Windows 8. It's still read-only, but I think that it will
> get the same editing capabilities as its Android
> counterpart.
>
> And with that in mind, I suspect that spending any time on
> 3.4 for Windows 8 is sort of a waste, except for bug fixing
> of course.
>
> thanks,
>
> Enno
>
>

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Re: Windows 8 development

enno
Hi Jerome,

> Note, maybe you forgot to say if it is Windows 8, Pro or Windows RT? 32 or
> 64 bit?

It's standard Windows 8, not pro, for desktop PC, intel 64 bit. I tried to
find the PC on the French Aldi or Medion site, but it's not there.

So, except for that UEFI and the metro interface, it's more like Windows 7
premium, and that's how I plan to use it too. I already installed a classic
start menu, so that I can start all software in a normal fashion, from the
desktop that I was used to in XP and good old Windows 7.

As far as I'm concerned, I would rather call it Windows 7.1, because that's
what it is, IMO.

cheers,

Enno


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Re: Windows 8 development

enno
In reply to this post by Benny Malengier

Hi Benny,
That is bullshit. Programs are programs. They perform a function. If they do that well, people will use them. I see people still using dos programs today (a restaurant I go has a 386 computer for his checkout :-), it works, why should we tell him to invest and spend money?).
Same here. I bought this system, because I wanted to run the latest version of Microsoft Flight Simulator, and Windows 8 is hard to avoid these days. Getting the same type of system with Windows 7 on it, was simply not possible anymore, or more expensive. And the system that I write this message on is a PC that I bought in 2003, running Windows XP, and Xubuntu 12.10.
 
Nevertheless, I do see that Microsoft is quite aggresive in promoting Windows 8 apps, which according to me look awful on a 24 " screen. That's why I installed a classic start menu as advised by CT magazine yesterday. But after reading
 
 
I really wonder what the average consumer will do when MS tries to push apps so much.
 
I sometimes use an Android tablet to read mail, and I have the Ancestry app on that too, to view the tree that I export from Gramps. And I really don't want to edit anything on that, except for small emails sometimes. And like you, I don't see a reason to convert Gramps to a touch interface, because such an interface takes up so much space, that there is less room for all the things that made me prefer Gramps over any other software on the planet.
 
If it weren't for that Flight Simulator and the evernote client, I would probably have bought a system without software on it, and install Xubuntu. That's because the Unity desktop doesn't make much sense to me either.
 
With all this in mind, I think that it is safest for us to look at Windows 8 as if it were 7.1.
 
cheers,
 
Enno
 

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Re: Windows 8 development

jerome
In reply to this post by enno
For information, one user and Peter also tested last bundle versions under windows8, see http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=6162

Despite the fact that this issue seems to be related to a path issue under Windows, fixed by Benny on 3.4.2: http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=5934 you can see that Gramps 3.4.2 runs under Windows8.

Note, according to last changes[1] on 3.4 SVN branch, it seems that translations will be the same between SVN and 3.4.2. So, no need to worry too much about compilation (translation message formating) under Windows8: to keep files for 3.4.2 will do the trick.

To build for trunk under windows is something else, but I guess the translation is fairly incomplete for your locale (like french one). So, even you find a way to compile under windows, the right translation file on trunk, most of translated strings are the same as for 3.4.2: keep the gramps.mo for your locale will also provide something close to last revision!


[1] http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/changelog_page.php?version_id=35


--- En date de : Dim 16.12.12, Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]> a écrit :

De: Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]>
Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] Windows 8 development
À: "Benny Malengier" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "jerome" <[hidden email]>, "Gramps Development List" <[hidden email]>
Date: Dimanche 16 décembre 2012, 16h38



Hi Benny,

  That is bullshit. Programs are programs. They
  perform a function. If they do that well, people will use them. I see people
  still using dos programs today (a restaurant I go has a 386 computer for his
  checkout :-), it works, why should we tell him to invest and spend
  money?).
Same here. I bought this system, because I
wanted to run the latest version of Microsoft Flight Simulator, and Windows 8 is
hard to avoid these days. Getting the same type of system with Windows 7 on it,
was simply not possible anymore, or more expensive. And the system that I write
this message on is a PC that I bought in 2003, running Windows XP, and Xubuntu
12.10.
 
Nevertheless, I do see that Microsoft is quite aggresive
in promoting Windows 8 apps, which according to me look awful on a 24 " screen.
That's why I installed a classic start menu as advised by CT magazine yesterday.
But after reading
 
http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_genealogy/2012/03/the-end-of-windows.html
 
I
really wonder what the average consumer will do when MS tries to push apps so
much.
 
I
sometimes use an Android tablet to read mail, and I have the Ancestry app on
that too, to view the tree that I export from Gramps. And I really don't want to
edit anything on that, except for small emails sometimes. And like you, I don't
see a reason to convert Gramps to a touch interface, because such an interface
takes up so much space, that there is less room for all the things that made me
prefer Gramps over any other software on the planet.
 
If it
weren't for that Flight Simulator and the evernote client, I would probably have
bought a system without software on it, and install Xubuntu. That's because the
Unity desktop doesn't make much sense to me either.
 
With
all this in mind, I think that it is safest for us to look at Windows 8 as if it
were 7.1.
 
cheers,
 
Enno
 


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Re : Windows 8 development

jerome
In reply to this post by enno
Enno,

> work on translations

Under Windows, you can also try to work on translations.

1. download and install 'Python gramplet' from addons repository via Edit -> Preferences menu -> General tab
http://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=Python_Gramplet
2. download and install GNU gettext for windows OS (64bit?)
http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/gettext.htm
3. load 'Python gramplet' into a gramps session, then add something like these lines into the dialog (use [Enter] key/touch at the end of line):

>>> msgfmtCmd = 'C:\Program Files(x86)\gettext\bin\msgfmt.exe' # or whatever your path for 'msgfmt.exe'
>>> import os
>>> os.system('''%(msgfmt)s -c -v nl.po'''  % {'msgfmt': msgfmtCmd})

replace your ../nl/LC_MESSAGES/gramps.mo with the updated .mo (named messages.mo, because there is no 'real' domain set).


Jérôme

--- En date de : Sam 15.12.12, Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> De: Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]>
> Objet: [Gramps-devel] Windows 8 development
> À: "Gramps Development List" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Samedi 15 décembre 2012, 16h43
> Hi,
>
> Three days ago, I bought a brand new Windows 8 system from
> Aldi, and
> then destroyed the factory configuration by trying to
> install Xubuntu
> 12.10. Thanks to the recovery DVD's, it's up and running
> again, and
> really clean, i.e. without the preloaded software, giving me
> a chance to
> install what I really want.
>
> But now I have a problem. Since I don't want to destroy its
>
> configuration once again, I can now either install Xubuntu
> in a virtual
> machine, and work on translations and small stuff like I did
> before, or
> try the Windows (8) way, maybe even on trunk.
>
> So, here's the big question: Does anyone have a working
> development
> environment on Windows 8 that is documented in such a way
> that I can try
> it too? I'd like to try that, because I like the Windows
> evernote
> client, and I want to try to integrate evernote and gramps
> for notes.
>
> I don't plan to build an app. It's just to stay up to date
> with gramps34
> or trunk in a safe way, and try new things.
>
> thanks,
>
> Enno
>
>
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>

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Re: Re : Windows 8 development

enno
Hi Jerome,

When I read all this, I think that I can better forget about it. There's
too many manual steps involved for Windows, and I have Xubuntu 12.10
running in VirtualBox now, so I can concentrate on the environment that
I feel home with again.

I thank you for you advice, and I will archive it on evernote, and then
I will continue working on some other things, like Uli's source report.

thank you,

Enno


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