extra css stylesheets

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extra css stylesheets

robhealey1

Greetings:

    I truly understand the need to limit the amount of CSS Stylesheets that GRAMPS  will officially support and maintain!  I am not trying to override anyone's decisions or thought-processes by any way!
    I was thinking that Aunt Martha will never download the extra stylesheets, even if she loves them, because she is not going to want to code them into NarrativeWeb or WebCal, if it ever goes to stylesheets, because she is in fear of messing it up and it won't work now!  She can't or won't go to this list for help because she knows that it was her fault!
    It would take someone like me to do it for her, and then send her the patches and files.  She still will not do it, because she knows that she is not a programmer and will not take the chance.  No matter how easy or explicit the directions are that I would send to her.

    Just my .02 cents.......

    I am more than willing to continue to support my stylesheets for whatever time period exists for them......  I currently have four stylesheets in waiting...  The two of High Contrast and Reverse.  One of "Bold and Blue" and one of "Evergreen in Washington"!  The high contrast are very simple to see and navigate.  The subsections are clearly and definitively separated.  They are very much for the visually-impaired.  I have tried to increase the font sizes as well.  I would also like to create a visually-impaired print stylesheet too.  I am sure that there would be a need for it as well...

I realize that Brian is on acation right now, so can someone else comment on this .....?
 
Sincerely Yours,
Rob G. Healey

 

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Re: extra css stylesheets

gramps.lists.sourceforge.net
In my opinion, how about a style switcher? This is avaialable in many
forms, but the thing I like about the web report is that you can run it
on your own machine. Aunt Martha probably does not know about PHP so
much and setting it up could be trouble. Javascript, although not in by
default for many is an easy aplication to install in one´s browser and
then can be forgotten abot (potential script kiddies and java
vulnerabilities ignored initially!)

http://javascript.about.com/library/blswitch.htm
http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex9/stylesheetswitcher.htm


Here is are simple examples of code for a switcher

Just put stylesheet switcher into Google

This way, several stylesheets could be put into the made directory, then
the user can choose on going to the website. Those who do know how to
manipulate the stylesheets can then play further to their hearts
content.

Adrian

On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 17:59 -0700, Rob Healey wrote:

> Greetings:
>
>     I truly understand the need to limit the amount of CSS Stylesheets
> that GRAMPS  will officially support and maintain!  I am not trying to
> override anyone's decisions or thought-processes by any way!
>     I was thinking that Aunt Martha will never download the extra
> stylesheets, even if she loves them, because she is not going to want
> to code them into NarrativeWeb or WebCal, if it ever goes to
> stylesheets, because she is in fear of messing it up and it won't work
> now!  She can't or won't go to this list for help because she knows
> that it was her fault!
>     It would take someone like me to do it for her, and then send her
> the patches and files.  She still will not do it, because she knows
> that she is not a programmer and will not take the chance.  No matter
> how easy or explicit the directions are that I would send to her.
>
>     Just my .02 cents.......
>
>     I am more than willing to continue to support my stylesheets for
> whatever time period exists for them......  I currently have four
> stylesheets in waiting...  The two of High Contrast and Reverse.  One
> of "Bold and Blue" and one of "Evergreen in Washington"!  The high
> contrast are very simple to see and navigate.  The subsections are
> clearly and definitively separated.  They are very much for the
> visually-impaired.  I have tried to increase the font sizes as well.
> I would also like to create a visually-impaired print stylesheet too.
> I am sure that there would be a need for it as well...
>
> I realize that Brian is on acation right now, so can someone else
> comment on this .....?
>  
> Sincerely Yours,
> Rob G. Healey
>
>  
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> _______________________________________________ Gramps-devel mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel


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Re: extra css stylesheets

Jason Simanek-2
Hey Adrian and Rob,

On Thu, 2008-05-01 at 11:49 +0100, Adrian wrote:
> In my opinion, how about a style switcher? This is avaialable in many
> forms, but the thing I like about the web report is that you can run it
> on your own machine. Aunt Martha probably does not know about PHP so
> much and setting it up could be trouble. Javascript, although not in by
> default for many is an easy aplication to install in one´s browser and
> then can be forgotten abot (potential script kiddies and java
> vulnerabilities ignored initially!)

In my understanding JavaScript comes with pretty much every browser
aside from Lynx. The vulnerabilities do not exist outside of Windows and
in that case they are mostly due to Windows users usually running in
their Admin user account. I'm sure it's still possible to have a
JavaScript vulnerability in an OS like Linux, but I think it's unlikely
and the effects are greatly diminished by users running a more limited
user account.

As for the stylesheet switcher, you don't need to use javascript to do
this. In Firefox, Konqueror and Opera (at least) you can simply go to
the menu/View/Page Style/ and select the desired stylesheet IF there are
alternate stylesheets defined. Konqueror has the best implementation in
that the alternative stylesheet choice is preserved as you move from
page to page of a website.

> This way, several stylesheets could be put into the made directory, then
> the user can choose on going to the website. Those who do know how to
> manipulate the stylesheets can then play further to their hearts
> content.

It sounds nice, but if average users don't know that they can change the
size of text in any website with a simple setting in their web browser,
do you really think they will bother altering the entire appearance of a
website? Granted, the javascript solution makes it so that the option
could be made very obvious on the page.

I am only afraid that this path of thought is what leads to features
like 'Change the size of text' on some of these corporate websites. I
hate that stuff. In stead of talking down to people let's try to teach
them about the features available for them to use on any website.

Also, if any of you are paying attention, I noticed that Firefox 3 now
zooms the entire page rather than increasing the size of text. This
'general zoom' is in contrast with the 'layout that adapts to text size
change' philosophy. Internet Explorer 7 and Opera both use the 'general
zoom' method and now Firefox will be doing the same. I'm not sure if the
WebKit (Konqueror and Safari) browsers intend to change to general zoom
as well, but for now they still only scale the text.

> On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 17:59 -0700, Rob Healey wrote:
> >     I truly understand the need to limit the amount of CSS Stylesheets
> > that GRAMPS  will officially support and maintain!  I am not trying to
> > override anyone's decisions or thought-processes by any way!
> >     It would take someone like me to do it for her, and then send her
> > the patches and files.  She still will not do it, because she knows
> > that she is not a programmer and will not take the chance.  No matter
> > how easy or explicit the directions are that I would send to her.

Is there a part of this conversation that I missed? A discussion about
the inclusion of more stylesheets or something?

Anyway, I think a high-contrast style might be beneficial to people with
highly-impaired vision, but I'm curious if these folks, if they are
indeed on the web, are not using a browser like Opera so that they can
easily switch every website they go to to a 'personal' stylesheet. Or at
the very least if they have learned how to turn off the provided
stylesheet in order to see the site with their browser's default styles
and maybe enlarged text.

These are positive concerns about accessibility and I'm thankful for
your interest. I just don't want us to get distracted from accessibility
on a more primary and important level. One of the primary reasons for my
recent changes to Narrative Web was to improve the markup in order to
make the web page content more accessible to screen readers and browsers
that allow users to alter page styles for the visually impaired.

-Jason


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Re: extra css stylesheets

gramps.lists.sourceforge.net
Hi Jason,

Thank you for your thoughts on this, but I thought more that the
switcher could have much more possibilities for both Aunt Martha and a
wed building genealogist.

> In my understanding JavaScript comes with pretty much every browser
> aside from Lynx. The vulnerabilities do not exist outside of Windows and
> in that case they are mostly due to Windows users usually running in
> their Admin user account. I'm sure it's still possible to have a
> JavaScript vulnerability in an OS like Linux, but I think it's unlikely
> and the effects are greatly diminished by users running a more limited
> user account.
One of the main reasons for saying about Java vulnerabilities is that
Aunt Martha does use her admin account and has no other probably,
certainly she would not fuss about having two logins. Secondly, Aunt
Martha is worried when she reads that there is a possibility that there
could be vulnerabilities and so may fear enabling javascript. I too
agree that vulnerabilities are minimal risk, and that´s why I had put
that they are initially ignored. If it went into the web report, I was
thinking we need to make sure what we have said is in documentation to
allay any fears.
>
> As for the stylesheet switcher, you don't need to use javascript to do
> this. In Firefox, Konqueror and Opera (at least) you can simply go to
> the menu/View/Page Style/ and select the desired stylesheet IF there are
> alternate stylesheets defined. Konqueror has the best implementation in
> that the alternative stylesheet choice is preserved as you move from
> page to page of a website.
I did not know this, and it is a useful idea, but I have not yet found
 a site to test whether the style chosen stays when you move from one  
 page to the next. It is good that Konqueror does the persistent style,
 but there are only one part of the browser market. Secondly, there is
 more fuss having to search  through browser menus to find these
 options. A simple dropdown in the  corner of a page could be easier.

> > This way, several stylesheets could be put into the made directory,
> > then the user can choose on going to the website. Those who do know
> > how to manipulate the stylesheets can then play further to their
> >hearts content.
> It sounds nice, but if average users don't know that they can change the
> size of text in any website with a simple setting in their web browser,
> do you really think they will bother altering the entire appearance of a
> website? Granted, the javascript solution makes it so that the option
> could be made very obvious on the page.
It is the obvious visibility of the option that would make it appealing.
Great Aunt Martha, with her Macula degeneration in her eyes cannot see
much of the drop down menus so if she knows there is a link/button in
the top left corner that will make her nephew´s work instantly more
readable, she will visit the site more often.

> I am only afraid that this path of thought is what leads to features
> like 'Change the size of text' on some of these corporate websites. I
> hate that stuff. In stead of talking down to people let's try to teach
> them about the features available for them to use on any website.
I too hate such options on corporate websites. It is where some bright
 spark has thought ¨how can we quickly show that we care?¨, without  
  actually thinking  and thus not caring. But because we know how to  
 manipulate stylesheets, the styles available would suit the text
  sizes  within each stylesheet accordingly. Column sizes, placed
 images  and  structured would be geared toward that particular
 stylesheet.  That is  the whole point of having them. It is nice to
 see a page in  variations  of colour, but there is more to CSS than
 just a rainbow.  http://www.centerkey.com/style/switcher/ this link
 shows that the same content can be displayed in many, many ways.

> Also, if any of you are paying attention, I noticed that Firefox 3 now
> zooms the entire page rather than increasing the size of text. This
> 'general zoom' is in contrast with the 'layout that adapts to text size
> change' philosophy. Internet Explorer 7 and Opera both use the 'general
> zoom' method and now Firefox will be doing the same. I'm not sure if the
> WebKit (Konqueror and Safari) browsers intend to change to general zoom
> as well, but for now they still only scale the text.
I, myself don´t like zooms. Zoomed text, as we know, completely messes up
 CSS and zoomed pages pixelate images and require more navigation to
 see the page pushed down and right.

I was thinking of catering for all users. We need in part to
  differentiate between the user of GRAMPS who is producing the
  narrative web, and the Internet user who may come along and browse
 the  produced website. If a GRAMPS user is brave enough to produce the
 narrative  web, and then upload it to a server,  even if a myspace or
 fully  automated upload system, then that GRAMPS user is already more
 that the  average Internet user. Not all GRAMPS users would like to
 tweak the web output, instead they would like to upload it and give
 their family the link.

Further on the css designs, you could have CSS styles that are geared
to particular ancestors. Significant ancestors could be linked to and
the style changes when going to that page or throughout the course or
the visitors time on the site.

I have more to suggest but children scream for supper :)

I too think this is all positive.

ADrian

> > On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 17:59 -0700, Rob Healey wrote:
> > >     I truly understand the need to limit the amount of CSS Stylesheets
> > > that GRAMPS  will officially support and maintain!  I am not trying to
> > > override anyone's decisions or thought-processes by any way!
> > >     It would take someone like me to do it for her, and then send her
> > > the patches and files.  She still will not do it, because she knows
> > > that she is not a programmer and will not take the chance.  No matter
> > > how easy or explicit the directions are that I would send to her.
>
> Is there a part of this conversation that I missed? A discussion about
> the inclusion of more stylesheets or something?
>
> Anyway, I think a high-contrast style might be beneficial to people with
> highly-impaired vision, but I'm curious if these folks, if they are
> indeed on the web, are not using a browser like Opera so that they can
> easily switch every website they go to to a 'personal' stylesheet. Or at
> the very least if they have learned how to turn off the provided
> stylesheet in order to see the site with their browser's default styles
> and maybe enlarged text.
>
> These are positive concerns about accessibility and I'm thankful for
> your interest. I just don't want us to get distracted from accessibility
> on a more primary and important level. One of the primary reasons for my
> recent changes to Narrative Web was to improve the markup in order to
> make the web page content more accessible to screen readers and browsers
> that allow users to alter page styles for the visually impaired.
>
> -Jason
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference
> Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100.
> Use priority code J8TL2D2.
> http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel


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