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how to run trunk on Ubuntu 12.04 w/o system-wide gnome upgrade?

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how to run trunk on Ubuntu 12.04 w/o system-wide gnome upgrade?

Vassilii Khachaturov
I haven't done anything with Gramps since the sf repo upgrade, and
finally want to get back on. I've successfully been able to sync with
the GIT repository, using the excellent guidance on the "Git" page of
the gramps wiki.

I'm trying to run the current trunk on ubuntu LTS 12.04.2, in the same
environment that once worked for the trunk that is now 3.4 :)
Gramps happily installed with
   python setup.py install --root ~/local
and when I run it using
   PYTHONPATH=~/local/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/ python -c
'from gramps.grampsapp import main; main()'
it reports (predictably) the missing new dependencies:
      ...
      Your pygobject version does not meet the requirements.
      At least pygobject 3.3.2 is needed to start Gramps with a GUI.
      ...

On
http://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_029:_GTK3-GObject_introspection_Conversion#Ubuntu_12.04 
there's a suggestion to do a system-wide GNOME upgrade:
   For people on Ubuntu 12.04, you need:
   1. add the gnome_shell repo to have the latest version of glib and
friends, see how to add the ppa on: gnome_shell pppa
<http://www.ubuntuupdates.org/ppa/gnome_shell?dist=precise> Then upgrade
your system via the system manager
   Note 1 : If you use Gnome3, also add the gnome3 ppa!
   Note 2: this can make gnome shell unstable if the ppa is too bleeding
edge!

This sounds a bit scary for a system others are using as well, so I'd
rather install the relevant things locally in ~/local. Has anyone gone
this way so far? What is the minimal set of things to reinstall from source?

Alternatively, is there a workaround to run the trunk on older
pygobject, with some limited GUI functionality maybe?

TIA,
V.

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Re: how to run trunk on Ubuntu 12.04 w/o system-wide gnome upgrade?

jerome
Vassilii,

> Alternatively, is there a workaround to run the trunk on older
> pygobject, with some limited GUI functionality maybe?

No!
It seems that there is TreeView issues on older pygobject versions ...

> I'm trying to run the current trunk on ubuntu LTS 12.04.2, in the same
> environment that once worked for the trunk that is now 3.4 :)

Trunk needs a database upgrade (tag objects have been added on some
primary object, and Place level hierarchy has been improved).

So, you might want to start with Gramps 4.0?

> This sounds a bit scary for a system others are using as well, so I'd
> rather install the relevant things locally in ~/local. Has anyone gone
> this way so far? What is the minimal set of things to reinstall from source?

I build an experimental .deb package for 4.0-beta
and I am running a 12.04 based distribution!

http://sourceforge.net/projects/gramps/files/Unstable/

When you try to install it, it should complain about dependencies issues.

As far I know, there is no python-pygobject-3.3.2.deb package for
12.04... There is a transitional one (3.0.2 or something like that) for
Gtk3 applications. I also saw projects and libs for building bundle apps
under Gnome desktop, but I am not a big fan of this way!

Note, Ubuntu 13.04 seems to force python3 by default.
So, the experimental .deb should not work (I used dh_python2).


I hope this could help.
Jérôme


Le 22/04/2013 09:27, Vassilii Khachaturov a écrit :

> I haven't done anything with Gramps since the sf repo upgrade, and
> finally want to get back on. I've successfully been able to sync with
> the GIT repository, using the excellent guidance on the "Git" page of
> the gramps wiki.
>
> I'm trying to run the current trunk on ubuntu LTS 12.04.2, in the same
> environment that once worked for the trunk that is now 3.4 :)
> Gramps happily installed with
>     python setup.py install --root ~/local
> and when I run it using
>     PYTHONPATH=~/local/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/ python -c
> 'from gramps.grampsapp import main; main()'
> it reports (predictably) the missing new dependencies:
>        ...
>        Your pygobject version does not meet the requirements.
>        At least pygobject 3.3.2 is needed to start Gramps with a GUI.
>        ...
>
> On
> http://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_029:_GTK3-GObject_introspection_Conversion#Ubuntu_12.04
> there's a suggestion to do a system-wide GNOME upgrade:
>     For people on Ubuntu 12.04, you need:
>     1. add the gnome_shell repo to have the latest version of glib and
> friends, see how to add the ppa on: gnome_shell pppa
> <http://www.ubuntuupdates.org/ppa/gnome_shell?dist=precise> Then upgrade
> your system via the system manager
>     Note 1 : If you use Gnome3, also add the gnome3 ppa!
>     Note 2: this can make gnome shell unstable if the ppa is too bleeding
> edge!
>
> This sounds a bit scary for a system others are using as well, so I'd
> rather install the relevant things locally in ~/local. Has anyone gone
> this way so far? What is the minimal set of things to reinstall from source?
>
> Alternatively, is there a workaround to run the trunk on older
> pygobject, with some limited GUI functionality maybe?
>
> TIA,
> V.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced
> analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building
> apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use
> our toolset for easy data analysis & visualization. Get a free account!
> http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>


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Re: how to run trunk on Ubuntu 12.04 w/o system-wide gnome upgrade?

Tim Lyons
Administrator
In reply to this post by Vassilii Khachaturov
If you want to run gramps40 or trunk on Ubuntu 12.04, then you should upgrade your Ubuntu to 12.10.

Ubuntu 12.04 doesn't meet the requirement for "At least pygobject 3.3.2 is needed to start Gramps with a GUI", whereas Ubuntu 12.10 does.

Sorry, because I am presumably missing something, but I don't see the point in trying to hack the system to install totally non-standard software when there is a release available that contains the right version of the software.

I upgraded my Ubuntu 12.04 to 12.10 fairly straightforwardly (no need to start from a fresh system). Admittedly, my Ubuntu machine is not my main machine, so it wasn't vital, but it all seemed to go OK (you do have a backup of course don't you).

Most things that I use seem to be upgraded automatically, except for svn, where I think I had to perform some magic to upgrade my repository. (I may also have had to check that both the command line svn and the one used in Eclipse were the same version).
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Re: how to run trunk on Ubuntu 12.04 w/o system-wide gnome upgrade?

Brian Matherly
>If you want to run gramps40 or trunk on Ubuntu 12.04, then you should upgrade
>your Ubuntu to 12.10.
>
>Ubuntu 12.04 doesn't meet the requirement for "At least pygobject 3.3.2 is
>needed to start Gramps with a GUI", whereas Ubuntu 12.10 does.
>
>Sorry, because I am presumably missing something, but I don't see the point
>in trying to hack the system to install totally non-standard software when
>there is a release available that contains the right version of the
>software.
>
>I upgraded my Ubuntu 12.04 to 12.10 fairly straightforwardly (no need to
>start from a fresh system). Admittedly, my Ubuntu machine is not my main
>machine, so it wasn't vital, but it all seemed to go OK (you do have a
>backup of course don't you).
>
>Most things that I use seem to be upgraded automatically, except for svn,
>where I think I had to perform some magic to upgrade my repository. (I may
>also have had to check that both the command line svn and the one used in
>Eclipse were the same version).


The problem with going from 12.04 to 12.10 is that you lose long term support. I got tired of chasing my tail every 6 months when a new Ubuntu release comes out. So I've decided to stick to LTS releases only. To bride the gap in special circumstances (like this), I use VirtualBox and install the latest Ubuntu in a VM. That would be my advice to anyone whose hardware can handle it. Install 12.10 in a Virtualbox environment and leave your LTS installation alone.

~BM


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Re: how to run trunk on Ubuntu 12.04 w/o system-wide gnome upgrade?

jerome
In reply to this post by Tim Lyons
> Ubuntu 12.04 doesn't meet the requirement for "At least pygobject 3.3.2 is
> needed to start Gramps with a GUI", whereas Ubuntu 12.10 does.

Maybe I can try to make one .deb for Ubuntu 12.04!!!
I do not use Gnome shell or a lot of applications using
pygobject/python-gi 3.2.2 (the last official version under 12.04)[1].

Not tested, but there is also a quick and dirty way: to replace modules
for 3.2.2 (python-gi) with compiled 'local' modules... :-\
http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise-updates/i386/python-gi/filelist
I rather keep my custom launcher/command pointing to compiled modules
for 3.3.2. ;)

More safe, bundler[2], glick2[3] might be an alternate way for building
gramps40 or trunk?

[1] http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise-updates/python-gobject
[1] https://github.com/alexlarsson/bundler#readme
[2]
http://blogs.gnome.org/alexl/2011/09/30/rethinking-the-linux-distibution/

Le 23/04/2013 21:00, Tim Lyons a écrit :

> If you want to run gramps40 or trunk on Ubuntu 12.04, then you should upgrade
> your Ubuntu to 12.10.
>
> Ubuntu 12.04 doesn't meet the requirement for "At least pygobject 3.3.2 is
> needed to start Gramps with a GUI", whereas Ubuntu 12.10 does.
>
> Sorry, because I am presumably missing something, but I don't see the point
> in trying to hack the system to install totally non-standard software when
> there is a release available that contains the right version of the
> software.
>
> I upgraded my Ubuntu 12.04 to 12.10 fairly straightforwardly (no need to
> start from a fresh system). Admittedly, my Ubuntu machine is not my main
> machine, so it wasn't vital, but it all seemed to go OK (you do have a
> backup of course don't you).
>
> Most things that I use seem to be upgraded automatically, except for svn,
> where I think I had to perform some magic to upgrade my repository. (I may
> also have had to check that both the command line svn and the one used in
> Eclipse were the same version).
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/how-to-run-trunk-on-Ubuntu-12-04-w-o-system-wide-gnome-upgrade-tp4659941p4659948.html
> Sent from the GRAMPS - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: how to run trunk on Ubuntu 12.04 w/o system-wide gnome upgrade?

Tim Lyons
Administrator
In reply to this post by Brian Matherly
Brian Matherly wrote
The problem with going from 12.04 to 12.10 is that you lose long term support. I got tired of chasing my tail every 6 months when a new Ubuntu release comes out. So I've decided to stick to LTS releases only. To bride the gap in special circumstances (like this), I use VirtualBox and install the latest Ubuntu in a VM. That would be my advice to anyone whose hardware can handle it. Install 12.10 in a Virtualbox environment and leave your LTS installation alone.
I can quite understand wanting to be on LTS.

Just two points:

(1) Just shows how bleeding edge gramps40 and trunk are!! I am not sure why people are pressing ahead with moving gramps to beta and thinking about release when there is so little that it will run on.

(2) I still don't understand why people are trying to provide components so that gramps can run on Ubuntu 10.04 if those components are going to replace the standard components already in 10.04. If you are keeping 10.04 because you want LTS, then you don't want to be corrupting your image with non-standard components. If you are using non-standard components, then you don't care about LTS, so why not upgrade to 10.12.

If upgrading really is chasing your tail, could you personally just do the one upgrade to 10.12, and then not do any more upgrades till the next LTS comes out? The next LTS is [1] 14.04 in April 2014, and 12.10 appears to be supported till then? On that basis, should Gramps 4.0.0 be scheduled for April 2014, or are there other popular LTS/stable platforms that will support Gramps natively earlier (apart from Windows and Mac, which don't count because on them Gramps uses components that are entirely separate from the components installed in the native system)?

Tim.


[1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS
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Re: how to run trunk on Ubuntu 12.04 w/o system-wide gnome upgrade?

jerome
Note, Ubuntu often provides very old versions of gramps via their own repositories[1]. And we can safety run Gramps 3.4.x under Ubuntu 10.04 LTS and 12.04 LTS without breaking any dependencies!

None of offially supported versions are the last one of related branches...
I suppose that most of reported bug reports for Ubuntu[2] are fixed on current stable release. They want to maintain their own packages, this also makes sense.

> If you are keeping 10.04 because
> you want LTS, then you don't want to be corrupting your
> image with non-standard components. If you are using non-standard
> components, then you don't care about LTS, so why not upgrade to 10.12.

Image??? building kernel ?

I guess under Windows OS and Mac OS, at the end of the time support, you get a very stable OS... and you need to change ! Under linux, whatever you do, you do not really need to make a new installation after doing a non-allowed (or non-wanted) action; you revert broken modules/packages or fix configuration file by yourself. The closed layers could be on drivers (kernel) or web plugins, and you should be free to keep (or to break) your OS if you want! That's also maybe why people can still run Gramps under Ubuntu 8.04, and we get some bug reports for old branch...

'apport' system[3] and ErrorTracker[4] are also designed for making long term version more and more robust, and lead to questions like: 'is Ubuntu more stable in the first week of use or subsequent weeks?'[5]

12.10, 13.04 are in road to 14.04 LTS.

So, 12.10, 13.04 could be rather testing versions for next features (next generation of Ubuntu). 13.04 seems to provide python3 by default (and via the install CD[6]) + use of Gtk3 related to Gnome desktop... I guess that the next gramps versions will be 4.0.x for Ubuntu, even you can still install gramps 3.4.x with python 2. But like for running 'trunk on Ubuntu 12.04': it is possible (and safe) but you will have to do it by yourself...

[1] https://launchpad.net/gramps/+packages
[2] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gramps
[3] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport
[4] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker
[5] http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=6601
[6] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-r-python-versions



PS: vassili is asking for running trunk/gramps40 via 12.04 because he is testing translations for Russian...

--- En date de : Mer 24.4.13, Tim Lyons <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> De: Tim Lyons <[hidden email]>
> Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] how to run trunk on Ubuntu 12.04 w/o system-wide gnome upgrade?
> À: [hidden email]
> Date: Mercredi 24 avril 2013, 0h19
> Brian Matherly wrote
> > The problem with going from 12.04 to 12.10 is that you
> lose long term
> > support. I got tired of chasing my tail every 6 months
> when a new Ubuntu
> > release comes out. So I've decided to stick to LTS
> releases only. To bride
> > the gap in special circumstances (like this), I use
> VirtualBox and install
> > the latest Ubuntu in a VM. That would be my advice to
> anyone whose
> > hardware can handle it. Install 12.10 in a Virtualbox
> environment and
> > leave your LTS installation alone.
>
> I can quite understand wanting to be on LTS.
>
> Just two points:
>
> (1) Just shows how bleeding edge gramps40 and trunk are!! I
> am not sure why
> people are pressing ahead with moving gramps to beta and
> thinking about
> release when there is so little that it will run on.
>
> (2) I still don't understand why people are trying to
> provide components so
> that gramps can run on Ubuntu 10.04 if those components are
> going to replace
> the standard components already in 10.04. If you are keeping
> 10.04 because
> you want LTS, then you don't want to be corrupting your
> image with
> non-standard components. If you are using non-standard
> components, then you
> don't care about LTS, so why not upgrade to 10.12.
>
> If upgrading really is chasing your tail, could you
> personally just do the
> one upgrade to 10.12, and then not do any more upgrades till
> the next LTS
> comes out? The next LTS is [1] 14.04 in April 2014, and
> 12.10 appears to be
> supported till then? On that basis, should Gramps 4.0.0 be
> scheduled for
> April 2014, or are there other popular LTS/stable platforms
> that will
> support Gramps natively earlier (apart from Windows and Mac,
> which don't
> count because on them Gramps uses components that are
> entirely separate from
> the components installed in the native system)?
>
> Tim.
>
>
> [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://gramps.1791082.n4.nabble.com/how-to-run-trunk-on-Ubuntu-12-04-w-o-system-wide-gnome-upgrade-tp4659941p4659953.html
> Sent from the GRAMPS - Dev mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
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Re: how to run trunk on Ubuntu 12.04 w/o system-wide gnome upgrade?

jerome
In reply to this post by Brian Matherly
I made the choice to keep 12.04 environment into a more flexible desktop, still in developement! So, I started with an alpha distribution[1], then I compiled alternate python introspection stuff like described into wiki page. We can say that my OS followed gramps' trunk: the base environment was safe (Ubuntu 12.04, Gramps 3.4.x), returning many errors via bug trackers and generating something more and more robust.

One month ago, I got an annoying issue blocking pygtk apps (like Gramps 3.4.x) ... But trying to understand why it goes wrong, I am now more confortable with my OS and gramps' dependencies. I am happy with last improvements/tweaking[2] under my daily '12.04/Gtk3' based OS and I can run Gramps 3.4.x and 4.0.x (or trunk). ;)

[1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/elementaryos/files/unstable/
[2] http://elementaryos.org/journal


--- En date de : Mar 23.4.13, Brian Matherly <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> De: Brian Matherly <[hidden email]>
> Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] how to run trunk on Ubuntu 12.04 w/o system-wide gnome upgrade?
> À: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Mardi 23 avril 2013, 21h11
> >If you want to run gramps40 or
> trunk on Ubuntu 12.04, then you should upgrade
> >your Ubuntu to 12.10.
> >
> >Ubuntu 12.04 doesn't meet the requirement for "At least
> pygobject 3.3.2 is
> >needed to start Gramps with a GUI", whereas Ubuntu 12.10
> does.
> >
> >Sorry, because I am presumably missing something, but I
> don't see the point
> >in trying to hack the system to install totally
> non-standard software when
> >there is a release available that contains the right
> version of the
> >software.
> >
> >I upgraded my Ubuntu 12.04 to 12.10 fairly
> straightforwardly (no need to
> >start from a fresh system). Admittedly, my Ubuntu
> machine is not my main
> >machine, so it wasn't vital, but it all seemed to go OK
> (you do have a
> >backup of course don't you).
> >
> >Most things that I use seem to be upgraded
> automatically, except for svn,
> >where I think I had to perform some magic to upgrade my
> repository. (I may
> >also have had to check that both the command line svn
> and the one used in
> >Eclipse were the same version).
>
>
> The problem with going from 12.04 to 12.10 is that you lose
> long term support. I got tired of chasing my tail every 6
> months when a new Ubuntu release comes out. So I've decided
> to stick to LTS releases only. To bride the gap in special
> circumstances (like this), I use VirtualBox and install the
> latest Ubuntu in a VM. That would be my advice to anyone
> whose hardware can handle it. Install 12.10 in a Virtualbox
> environment and leave your LTS installation alone.
>
> ~BM
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
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> monitoring service
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> monitor your
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>

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Re: how to run trunk on Ubuntu 12.04 w/o system-wide gnome upgrade?

Tim Lyons
Administrator
In reply to this post by jerome
Jéröme


On 24 Apr 2013, at 09:49, jerome wrote:

> Note, Ubuntu often provides very old versions of gramps via their  
> own repositories[1]. And we can safety run Gramps 3.4.x under Ubuntu  
> 10.04 LTS and 12.04 LTS without breaking any dependencies!

Just for the record here is the link to the description of why old  
versions of Ubuntu have old versions of Gramps, and why point release  
of Gramps are not issued as upgrades for existing users.
http://askubuntu.com/questions/224894/package-version-updates-policy

>
> None of offially supported versions are the last one of related  
> branches...
See reason above.

> I suppose that most of reported bug reports for Ubuntu[2] are fixed  
> on current stable release. They want to maintain their own packages,  
> this also makes sense.
>
>> If you are keeping 10.04 because
>> you want LTS, then you don't want to be corrupting your
>> image with non-standard components. If you are using non-standard
>> components, then you don't care about LTS, so why not upgrade to  
>> 10.12.
>
> Image??? building kernel ?

Jéröme, I still don't understand why you don't want to upgrade. To do  
so, all you have to do is launch the Update Manager, and after  
checking for updates/upgrades and installing updates to 10.04, just  
press the 'Upgrade' button. That's it. That's all. It just runs it  
automatically.

See http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/upgrade

I don't know what you mean by "Image", but you certainly don't need to  
build the kernel!

>
> I guess under Windows OS and Mac OS, at the end of the time support,  
> you get a very stable OS... and you need to change ! Under linux,  
> whatever you do, you do not really need to make a new installation  
> after doing a non-allowed (or non-wanted) action; you revert broken  
> modules/packages or fix configuration file by yourself. The closed  
> layers could be on drivers (kernel) or web plugins, and you should  
> be free to keep (or to break) your OS if you want! That's also maybe  
> why people can still run Gramps under Ubuntu 8.04, and we get some  
> bug reports for old branch...

Well, you are certainly free to break Linux if you want to. But  
breaking and fixing it is really something to the guru (not ordinary  
users). Running Gramps on old versions of software is not really  
relevant, because until gramps40 and trunk, the dependencies of gramps  
have hardly changed at all. I know, because I mostly run development  
versions of gramps34 on components that I last updated many years ago.

Anyway, that isn't the question - the question is, why don't you want  
to upgrade and why don't you expect other people to upgrade?

>  But like for running 'trunk on Ubuntu 12.04': it is possible (and  
> safe) but you will have to do it by yourself...

How is it safe? You are changing components that have been delivered  
with Ubuntu. If there are security bugs (or indeed other bugs) then  
Ubuntu will issue security updates for the standard components. Are  
you going to issue security updates for the bundle that you produce.  
And are you going to check that your components don't break existing  
Ubuntu 12.01 applications? Ubuntu try to ensure that their updates  
don't.

> PS: vassili is asking for running trunk/gramps40 via 12.04 because  
> he is testing translations for Russian...

So why doesn't he upgrade to 12.10?

Tim.


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Re: how to run trunk on Ubuntu 12.04 w/o system-wide gnome upgrade?

jerome
Tim,

>>  But like for running 'trunk on Ubuntu 12.04': it is possible (and
>> safe) but you will have to do it by yourself...
>
> How is it safe? You are changing components that have been delivered
> with Ubuntu.

As far I know, Gramps can run without compilation (except for
translations) and I am not certain that 'official' gramps versions
provided by Ubuntu are more safe!

At least, gramps versions should be 3.4.2/3, 3.3.2, 3.2.6, 3.1.3, 3.0.4.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/gramps/files/Stable/

Ubuntu provides 3.4.0, 3.3.1, 3.2.5, 3.0.1!

Sure, to overwrite existing modules with compiled modules is not safe,
even it is possible. That's also why, by default compiled modules are
installed under an alternate location (/usr/local/... or whatever path set).

I compile gramps with /usr prefix since many years because I do not use
'old' gramps packages provides by Ubuntu. We also provide a package for
people who do not want to compile or do not have devel packages for
building gramps.

Gramps 3.4.x can run with a lot of Gtk2/pygtk/cairo/pango libs: this
cannot break something on core libs from Gramps 10.04 to 12.04.

> I still don't understand why you don't want to upgrade.

My OS is inherited from 12.04 LTS (and supported)
12.04 LTS is the base (tested environment) for something new!
Start of something else.

12.10/13.04 provide some libs tested by usage with new ways, methods and
features! eg, http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=6665


Jérôme


Le 24/04/2013 19:20, Tim Lyons a écrit :

> Jéröme
>
>
> On 24 Apr 2013, at 09:49, jerome wrote:
>
>> Note, Ubuntu often provides very old versions of gramps via their own
>> repositories[1]. And we can safety run Gramps 3.4.x under Ubuntu 10.04
>> LTS and 12.04 LTS without breaking any dependencies!
>
> Just for the record here is the link to the description of why old
> versions of Ubuntu have old versions of Gramps, and why point release of
> Gramps are not issued as upgrades for existing users.
> http://askubuntu.com/questions/224894/package-version-updates-policy
>
>>
>> None of offially supported versions are the last one of related
>> branches...
> See reason above.
>> I suppose that most of reported bug reports for Ubuntu[2] are fixed on
>> current stable release. They want to maintain their own packages, this
>> also makes sense.
>>
>>> If you are keeping 10.04 because
>>> you want LTS, then you don't want to be corrupting your
>>> image with non-standard components. If you are using non-standard
>>> components, then you don't care about LTS, so why not upgrade to 10.12.
>>
>> Image??? building kernel ?
>
> Jéröme, I still don't understand why you don't want to upgrade. To do
> so, all you have to do is launch the Update Manager, and after checking
> for updates/upgrades and installing updates to 10.04, just press the
> 'Upgrade' button. That's it. That's all. It just runs it automatically.
>
> See http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/upgrade
>
> I don't know what you mean by "Image", but you certainly don't need to
> build the kernel!
>
>>
>> I guess under Windows OS and Mac OS, at the end of the time support,
>> you get a very stable OS... and you need to change ! Under linux,
>> whatever you do, you do not really need to make a new installation
>> after doing a non-allowed (or non-wanted) action; you revert broken
>> modules/packages or fix configuration file by yourself. The closed
>> layers could be on drivers (kernel) or web plugins, and you should be
>> free to keep (or to break) your OS if you want! That's also maybe why
>> people can still run Gramps under Ubuntu 8.04, and we get some bug
>> reports for old branch...
>
> Well, you are certainly free to break Linux if you want to. But breaking
> and fixing it is really something to the guru (not ordinary users).
> Running Gramps on old versions of software is not really relevant,
> because until gramps40 and trunk, the dependencies of gramps have hardly
> changed at all. I know, because I mostly run development versions of
> gramps34 on components that I last updated many years ago.
>
> Anyway, that isn't the question - the question is, why don't you want to
> upgrade and why don't you expect other people to upgrade?
>
>>  But like for running 'trunk on Ubuntu 12.04': it is possible (and
>> safe) but you will have to do it by yourself...
>
> How is it safe? You are changing components that have been delivered
> with Ubuntu. If there are security bugs (or indeed other bugs) then
> Ubuntu will issue security updates for the standard components. Are you
> going to issue security updates for the bundle that you produce. And are
> you going to check that your components don't break existing Ubuntu
> 12.01 applications? Ubuntu try to ensure that their updates don't.
>
>> PS: vassili is asking for running trunk/gramps40 via 12.04 because he
>> is testing translations for Russian...
>
> So why doesn't he upgrade to 12.10?
>
> Tim.
>
>


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Re: how to run trunk on Ubuntu 12.04 w/o system-wide gnome upgrade?

Benny Malengier
In reply to this post by Brian Matherly



2013/4/23 Brian Matherly <[hidden email]>
>If you want to run gramps40 or trunk on Ubuntu 12.04, then you should upgrade
>your Ubuntu to 12.10.
>
>Ubuntu 12.04 doesn't meet the requirement for "At least pygobject 3.3.2 is
>needed to start Gramps with a GUI", whereas Ubuntu 12.10 does.
>
>Sorry, because I am presumably missing something, but I don't see the point
>in trying to hack the system to install totally non-standard software when
>there is a release available that contains the right version of the
>software.
>
>I upgraded my Ubuntu 12.04 to 12.10 fairly straightforwardly (no need to
>start from a fresh system). Admittedly, my Ubuntu machine is not my main
>machine, so it wasn't vital, but it all seemed to go OK (you do have a
>backup of course don't you).
>
>Most things that I use seem to be upgraded automatically, except for svn,
>where I think I had to perform some magic to upgrade my repository. (I may
>also have had to check that both the command line svn and the one used in
>Eclipse were the same version).


The problem with going from 12.04 to 12.10 is that you lose long term support. I got tired of chasing my tail every 6 months when a new Ubuntu release comes out. So I've decided to stick to LTS releases only. To bride the gap in special circumstances (like this), I use VirtualBox and install the latest Ubuntu in a VM. That would be my advice to anyone whose hardware can handle it. Install 12.10 in a Virtualbox environment and leave your LTS installation alone.


Indeed, I also find using Virtualobox on 12.04, or even windows, is the way to go for easy gramps 4.0 and trunk development.

You have to see 4.0 as using a new GUI lib, so it cannot coexist with the old GUI if the environment is not sandboxed like in Mac Apps. As linux typically does not do that (although it would be possible), a VM is the way to go for those that don't upgrade to 12.10.

Bennty
 

~BM


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Re: how to run trunk on Ubuntu 12.04 w/o system-wide gnome upgrade?

John Ralls-2

On Apr 26, 2013, at 1:01 AM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>
> 2013/4/23 Brian Matherly <[hidden email]>
> >If you want to run gramps40 or trunk on Ubuntu 12.04, then you should upgrade
> >your Ubuntu to 12.10.
> >
> >Ubuntu 12.04 doesn't meet the requirement for "At least pygobject 3.3.2 is
> >needed to start Gramps with a GUI", whereas Ubuntu 12.10 does.
> >
> >Sorry, because I am presumably missing something, but I don't see the point
> >in trying to hack the system to install totally non-standard software when
> >there is a release available that contains the right version of the
> >software.
> >
> >I upgraded my Ubuntu 12.04 to 12.10 fairly straightforwardly (no need to
> >start from a fresh system). Admittedly, my Ubuntu machine is not my main
> >machine, so it wasn't vital, but it all seemed to go OK (you do have a
> >backup of course don't you).
> >
> >Most things that I use seem to be upgraded automatically, except for svn,
> >where I think I had to perform some magic to upgrade my repository. (I may
> >also have had to check that both the command line svn and the one used in
> >Eclipse were the same version).
>
>
> The problem with going from 12.04 to 12.10 is that you lose long term support. I got tired of chasing my tail every 6 months when a new Ubuntu release comes out. So I've decided to stick to LTS releases only. To bride the gap in special circumstances (like this), I use VirtualBox and install the latest Ubuntu in a VM. That would be my advice to anyone whose hardware can handle it. Install 12.10 in a Virtualbox environment and leave your LTS installation alone.
>
>
> Indeed, I also find using Virtualobox on 12.04, or even windows, is the way to go for easy gramps 4.0 and trunk development.
>
> You have to see 4.0 as using a new GUI lib, so it cannot coexist with the old GUI if the environment is not sandboxed like in Mac Apps. As linux typically does not do that (although it would be possible), a VM is the way to go for those that don't upgrade to 12.10.
>

Actually Gtk2 and Gtk3 coexist quite nicely, and most (all?) distros provide both.

The real problem is that aside from Gnome Desktop, AFAICT Gramps is the first
major app to migrate and we uncovered a bunch of bugs last fall. Any distro
that predates those fixes isn't going to run Gramps40 without updating Gtk3 and PyGObject. That's the downside of being out in front.

Regards,
John Ralls




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Re: how to run trunk on Ubuntu 12.04 w/o system-wide gnome upgrade?

Vassilii Khachaturov
In reply to this post by Vassilii Khachaturov
Thanks, I went the VirtualBox route and everything works fine. Took me
around .5d to bring everything up and running.

V.

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