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"some thoughts on Gramps for Windows"

lcc .
Hi,

Not sure you're all aware but Gramps has now an official PortableApps
version, 3.2.5 (http://portableapps.com/apps/education/gramps_portable
, http://portableapps.com/apps). Not only that, there's an alternative
All In One/AIO package for Windows. For a couple years there has been
an interesting -- and somewhat aggressive regarding Gramps and Windows
-- article on the internet called "some thoughts on Gramps for
Windows". This article suggests among other things that a .NET
compatible version of Gramps be made available, which sounds wrong to
me as .NET seems to be all proprietary/closed-source and not quite
relatable to F/LOSS, correct me if I'm mistaken. Anyway, it seems it's
about time this article is rewritten, updated, etc. Unfortunately it's
not possible to comment on the site. If anyone agrees perhaps you can
do something.

Regards,
lcc

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Re: "some thoughts on Gramps for Windows"

John Ralls-2

On Dec 11, 2010, at 10:40 AM, lcc . wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Not sure you're all aware but Gramps has now an official PortableApps
> version, 3.2.5 (http://portableapps.com/apps/education/gramps_portable
> , http://portableapps.com/apps). Not only that, there's an alternative
> All In One/AIO package for Windows. For a couple years there has been
> an interesting -- and somewhat aggressive regarding Gramps and Windows
> -- article on the internet called "some thoughts on Gramps for
> Windows". This article suggests among other things that a .NET
> compatible version of Gramps be made available, which sounds wrong to
> me as .NET seems to be all proprietary/closed-source and not quite
> relatable to F/LOSS, correct me if I'm mistaken. Anyway, it seems it's
> about time this article is rewritten, updated, etc. Unfortunately it's
> not possible to comment on the site. If anyone agrees perhaps you can
> do something.

Dick Eastman just posted a writeup about the PortableApps version: http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_genealogy/2010/12/gramps-portable-for-windows.html
(That wouldn't have had anything to do with the timing of this post, would it? ;-) )

There's an open source version of .Net called Mono: http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page. However, using it would require rewriting the Gui in IronPython (which also works on real .Net).

Regards,
John Ralls


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Re: "some thoughts on Gramps for Windows"

lcc .
Thanks for the information John. It seems that Dick Eastman missed an
important point in my opinion: you shouldn't really need a jump drive
or even the PortableApps suite for running only GrampsPortable. You
can just download the GrampsPortable package and install it in your
local disk. So this seems to solve the case for the regular user. If
that's correct perhaps you could let Dick Eastman know =).

Regards,
lcc

On 12/11/10, John Ralls <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Dec 11, 2010, at 10:40 AM, lcc . wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Not sure you're all aware but Gramps has now an official PortableApps
>> version, 3.2.5 (http://portableapps.com/apps/education/gramps_portable
>> , http://portableapps.com/apps). Not only that, there's an alternative
>> All In One/AIO package for Windows. For a couple years there has been
>> an interesting -- and somewhat aggressive regarding Gramps and Windows
>> -- article on the internet called "some thoughts on Gramps for
>> Windows". This article suggests among other things that a .NET
>> compatible version of Gramps be made available, which sounds wrong to
>> me as .NET seems to be all proprietary/closed-source and not quite
>> relatable to F/LOSS, correct me if I'm mistaken. Anyway, it seems it's
>> about time this article is rewritten, updated, etc. Unfortunately it's
>> not possible to comment on the site. If anyone agrees perhaps you can
>> do something.
>
> Dick Eastman just posted a writeup about the PortableApps version:
> http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_genealogy/2010/12/gramps-portable-for-windows.html
> (That wouldn't have had anything to do with the timing of this post, would
> it? ;-) )
>
> There's an open source version of .Net called Mono:
> http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page. However, using it would require
> rewriting the Gui in IronPython (which also works on real .Net).
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
>

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Re: "some thoughts on Gramps for Windows"

DS Blank
In reply to this post by John Ralls-2
On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 1:56 PM, John Ralls <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Dec 11, 2010, at 10:40 AM, lcc . wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Not sure you're all aware but Gramps has now an official PortableApps
>> version, 3.2.5 (http://portableapps.com/apps/education/gramps_portable
>> , http://portableapps.com/apps). Not only that, there's an alternative
>> All In One/AIO package for Windows. For a couple years there has been
>> an interesting -- and somewhat aggressive regarding Gramps and Windows
>> -- article on the internet called "some thoughts on Gramps for
>> Windows". This article suggests among other things that a .NET
>> compatible version of Gramps be made available, which sounds wrong to
>> me as .NET seems to be all proprietary/closed-source and not quite
>> relatable to F/LOSS, correct me if I'm mistaken. Anyway, it seems it's
>> about time this article is rewritten, updated, etc. Unfortunately it's
>> not possible to comment on the site. If anyone agrees perhaps you can
>> do something.
>
> Dick Eastman just posted a writeup about the PortableApps version: http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_genealogy/2010/12/gramps-portable-for-windows.html
> (That wouldn't have had anything to do with the timing of this post, would it? ;-) )
>
> There's an open source version of .Net called Mono: http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page. However, using it would require rewriting the Gui in IronPython (which also works on real .Net).

I've been use IronPython with Gtk Sharp, and it is very nice. I can
write code in Python, which can be run in Ruby and Scheme, and vice
versa [1].

I've thought about a version of Gramps for this.... for about a half
second. That would be a lot of work for little gain.

-Doug

[1] - http://pyjamaproject.org/

> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about native support for PL/SQL,
> new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency, built-in packages,
> OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and more.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>

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Re: "some thoughts on Gramps for Windows"

lcc .
It seems the claimed "advantage" would be allowing Windows developers
to link Gramps to other proprietary code (and some open source code
almost as a side-effect -- if they code in F/LOSS scripting languages
already... there would not be much of a point, see below).

I'd say aiming for ParrotVM compatibility is a much healthier
alternative. Nothing against Mono, it's an important project, just not
the best for this case it seems. http://www.parrot.org .

Regards,
lcc

On 12/11/10, Doug Blank <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 1:56 PM, John Ralls <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Dec 11, 2010, at 10:40 AM, lcc . wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Not sure you're all aware but Gramps has now an official PortableApps
>>> version, 3.2.5 (http://portableapps.com/apps/education/gramps_portable
>>> , http://portableapps.com/apps). Not only that, there's an alternative
>>> All In One/AIO package for Windows. For a couple years there has been
>>> an interesting -- and somewhat aggressive regarding Gramps and Windows
>>> -- article on the internet called "some thoughts on Gramps for
>>> Windows". This article suggests among other things that a .NET
>>> compatible version of Gramps be made available, which sounds wrong to
>>> me as .NET seems to be all proprietary/closed-source and not quite
>>> relatable to F/LOSS, correct me if I'm mistaken. Anyway, it seems it's
>>> about time this article is rewritten, updated, etc. Unfortunately it's
>>> not possible to comment on the site. If anyone agrees perhaps you can
>>> do something.
>>
>> Dick Eastman just posted a writeup about the PortableApps version:
>> http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_genealogy/2010/12/gramps-portable-for-windows.html
>> (That wouldn't have had anything to do with the timing of this post, would
>> it? ;-) )
>>
>> There's an open source version of .Net called Mono:
>> http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page. However, using it would require
>> rewriting the Gui in IronPython (which also works on real .Net).
>
> I've been use IronPython with Gtk Sharp, and it is very nice. I can
> write code in Python, which can be run in Ruby and Scheme, and vice
> versa [1].
>
> I've thought about a version of Gramps for this.... for about a half
> second. That would be a lot of work for little gain.
>
> -Doug
>
> [1] - http://pyjamaproject.org/
>
>> Regards,
>> John Ralls
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about native support for
>> PL/SQL,
>> new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency, built-in packages,
>> OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and more.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gramps-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>>
>

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Re : "some thoughts on Gramps for Windows"

jerome
In reply to this post by lcc .
Hi,


Gramps cannot be fully re-written in .NET, this will not be Gramps anymore...

Even if you use an other widget, there is cairo, POSIX/freedesktop logic (translations, MIME support without DRM, desktop file) and no closed output formats.

Yes, I remember someone said that all Windows programs should be written in Visual Basic. Now, he still keeps his Windows 98 for saying that programs still run ...

Novell has been buy (and its US patents), Silverlight is not a major framework, no one cannot appropriate or close all codes but it is not forbidden to try!!!


Jerome


--- En date de : Sam 11.12.10, lcc . <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> De: lcc . <[hidden email]>
> Objet: [Gramps-devel] "some thoughts on Gramps for Windows"
> À: "Gramps Development List" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Samedi 11 décembre 2010, 19h40
> Hi,
>
> Not sure you're all aware but Gramps has now an official
> PortableApps
> version, 3.2.5 (http://portableapps.com/apps/education/gramps_portable
> , http://portableapps.com/apps). Not only that, there's
> an alternative
> All In One/AIO package for Windows. For a couple years
> there has been
> an interesting -- and somewhat aggressive regarding Gramps
> and Windows
> -- article on the internet called "some thoughts on Gramps
> for
> Windows". This article suggests among other things that a
> .NET
> compatible version of Gramps be made available, which
> sounds wrong to
> me as .NET seems to be all proprietary/closed-source and
> not quite
> relatable to F/LOSS, correct me if I'm mistaken. Anyway, it
> seems it's
> about time this article is rewritten, updated, etc.
> Unfortunately it's
> not possible to comment on the site. If anyone agrees
> perhaps you can
> do something.
>
> Regards,
> lcc
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about native
> support for PL/SQL,
> new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency,
> built-in packages,
> OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and
> more.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev 
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>


     

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new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency, built-in packages,
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Re: Re : "some thoughts on Gramps for Windows"

Gerald Britton-2
Since Gramps is GPL, I suspect it would be a violation of the license
to modify it so that it needs .net to run if you plan to distribute
the result.  IANAL, but I think this would have to be looked at
carefully.

On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 4:26 PM, jerome <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
> Gramps cannot be fully re-written in .NET, this will not be Gramps anymore...
>
> Even if you use an other widget, there is cairo, POSIX/freedesktop logic (translations, MIME support without DRM, desktop file) and no closed output formats.
>
> Yes, I remember someone said that all Windows programs should be written in Visual Basic. Now, he still keeps his Windows 98 for saying that programs still run ...
>
> Novell has been buy (and its US patents), Silverlight is not a major framework, no one cannot appropriate or close all codes but it is not forbidden to try!!!
>
>
> Jerome
>
>
> --- En date de : Sam 11.12.10, lcc . <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
>> De: lcc . <[hidden email]>
>> Objet: [Gramps-devel] "some thoughts on Gramps for Windows"
>> À: "Gramps Development List" <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Samedi 11 décembre 2010, 19h40
>> Hi,
>>
>> Not sure you're all aware but Gramps has now an official
>> PortableApps
>> version, 3.2.5 (http://portableapps.com/apps/education/gramps_portable
>> , http://portableapps.com/apps). Not only that, there's
>> an alternative
>> All In One/AIO package for Windows. For a couple years
>> there has been
>> an interesting -- and somewhat aggressive regarding Gramps
>> and Windows
>> -- article on the internet called "some thoughts on Gramps
>> for
>> Windows". This article suggests among other things that a
>> .NET
>> compatible version of Gramps be made available, which
>> sounds wrong to
>> me as .NET seems to be all proprietary/closed-source and
>> not quite
>> relatable to F/LOSS, correct me if I'm mistaken. Anyway, it
>> seems it's
>> about time this article is rewritten, updated, etc.
>> Unfortunately it's
>> not possible to comment on the site. If anyone agrees
>> perhaps you can
>> do something.
>>
>> Regards,
>> lcc
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about native
>> support for PL/SQL,
>> new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency,
>> built-in packages,
>> OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and
>> more.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gramps-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about native support for PL/SQL,
> new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency, built-in packages,
> OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and more.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>



--
Gerald Britton

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Re: "some thoughts on Gramps for Windows"

John Ralls-2
In reply to this post by lcc .

On Dec 11, 2010, at 11:55 AM, lcc . wrote:

> Thanks for the information John. It seems that Dick Eastman missed an
> important point in my opinion: you shouldn't really need a jump drive
> or even the PortableApps suite for running only GrampsPortable. You
> can just download the GrampsPortable package and install it in your
> local disk. So this seems to solve the case for the regular user. If
> that's correct perhaps you could let Dick Eastman know =).
>

OK, I left a comment on the blog article saying that. You could have done so yourself... ;-)

It's not clear to me why GrampsPortable is preferable to the Gramps MSWin installer, though. But I don't do Windows, so don't bother explaining it.

Regards,
John Ralls


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Re: Re : "some thoughts on Gramps for Windows"

jerome
In reply to this post by Gerald Britton-2
Yes, freedom to run, study, change for it own use, but cannot copy, distribute, the software.

Allowed to change python code and to distribute it under the same licence. To use an other language means to rewrite all the code!

Without comments, 'experience/use' of the code and a coding language close to python, this will be an hard work for an own use.

Even if someone violates the GPL licence with closed sources and format by distributing it, some part of code and concepts are specific to Gramps. This will be quickly unmasked.



Jerome

--- En date de : Sam 11.12.10, Gerald Britton <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> De: Gerald Britton <[hidden email]>
> Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] Re : "some thoughts on Gramps for Windows"
> À: "jerome" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "Gramps Development List" <[hidden email]>, "lcc ." <[hidden email]>
> Date: Samedi 11 décembre 2010, 22h37
> Since Gramps is GPL, I suspect it
> would be a violation of the license
> to modify it so that it needs .net to run if you plan to
> distribute
> the result.  IANAL, but I think this would have to be
> looked at
> carefully.
>
> On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 4:26 PM, jerome <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> > Gramps cannot be fully re-written in .NET, this will
> not be Gramps anymore...
> >
> > Even if you use an other widget, there is cairo,
> POSIX/freedesktop logic (translations, MIME support without
> DRM, desktop file) and no closed output formats.
> >
> > Yes, I remember someone said that all Windows programs
> should be written in Visual Basic. Now, he still keeps his
> Windows 98 for saying that programs still run ...
> >
> > Novell has been buy (and its US patents), Silverlight
> is not a major framework, no one cannot appropriate or close
> all codes but it is not forbidden to try!!!
> >
> >
> > Jerome
> >
> >
> > --- En date de : Sam 11.12.10, lcc . <[hidden email]>
> a écrit :
> >
> >> De: lcc . <[hidden email]>
> >> Objet: [Gramps-devel] "some thoughts on Gramps for
> Windows"
> >> À: "Gramps Development List" <[hidden email]>
> >> Date: Samedi 11 décembre 2010, 19h40
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Not sure you're all aware but Gramps has now an
> official
> >> PortableApps
> >> version, 3.2.5 (http://portableapps.com/apps/education/gramps_portable
> >> , http://portableapps.com/apps). Not only
> that, there's
> >> an alternative
> >> All In One/AIO package for Windows. For a couple
> years
> >> there has been
> >> an interesting -- and somewhat aggressive
> regarding Gramps
> >> and Windows
> >> -- article on the internet called "some thoughts
> on Gramps
> >> for
> >> Windows". This article suggests among other things
> that a
> >> .NET
> >> compatible version of Gramps be made available,
> which
> >> sounds wrong to
> >> me as .NET seems to be all
> proprietary/closed-source and
> >> not quite
> >> relatable to F/LOSS, correct me if I'm mistaken.
> Anyway, it
> >> seems it's
> >> about time this article is rewritten, updated,
> etc.
> >> Unfortunately it's
> >> not possible to comment on the site. If anyone
> agrees
> >> perhaps you can
> >> do something.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> lcc
> >>
> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about
> native
> >> support for PL/SQL,
> >> new data types, scalar functions, improved
> concurrency,
> >> built-in packages,
> >> OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices
> and
> >> more.
> >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Gramps-devel mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about
> native support for PL/SQL,
> > new data types, scalar functions, improved
> concurrency, built-in packages,
> > OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and
> more.
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gramps-devel mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Gerald Britton
>


     

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Re: "some thoughts on Gramps for Windows"

Benny Malengier
In reply to this post by DS Blank


2010/12/11 Doug Blank <[hidden email]>
On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 1:56 PM, John Ralls <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Dec 11, 2010, at 10:40 AM, lcc . wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Not sure you're all aware but Gramps has now an official PortableApps
>> version, 3.2.5 (http://portableapps.com/apps/education/gramps_portable
>> , http://portableapps.com/apps). Not only that, there's an alternative
>> All In One/AIO package for Windows. For a couple years there has been
>> an interesting -- and somewhat aggressive regarding Gramps and Windows
>> -- article on the internet called "some thoughts on Gramps for
>> Windows". This article suggests among other things that a .NET
>> compatible version of Gramps be made available, which sounds wrong to
>> me as .NET seems to be all proprietary/closed-source and not quite
>> relatable to F/LOSS, correct me if I'm mistaken. Anyway, it seems it's
>> about time this article is rewritten, updated, etc. Unfortunately it's
>> not possible to comment on the site. If anyone agrees perhaps you can
>> do something.
>
> Dick Eastman just posted a writeup about the PortableApps version: http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_genealogy/2010/12/gramps-portable-for-windows.html
> (That wouldn't have had anything to do with the timing of this post, would it? ;-) )
>
> There's an open source version of .Net called Mono: http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page. However, using it would require rewriting the Gui in IronPython (which also works on real .Net).

I've been use IronPython with Gtk Sharp, and it is very nice. I can
write code in Python, which can be run in Ruby and Scheme, and vice
versa [1].

I've thought about a version of Gramps for this.... for about a half
second. That would be a lot of work for little gain.

We certainly would not do it officially, it is important not to support to many things, so as to be able to keep moving forward. Last I heard there was no roadmap for python 3.0 in .NET. It seems somewhere next year we can convert to python 3.0 as gtk support will land. Probably 2012 before we actually do it though.

Benny


-Doug

[1] - http://pyjamaproject.org/

> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about native support for PL/SQL,
> new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency, built-in packages,
> OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and more.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev
> _______________________________________________
> Gramps-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about native support for PL/SQL,
new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency, built-in packages,
OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and more.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev
_______________________________________________
Gramps-devel mailing list
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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel


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