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release plan 3.4.2 and 4.0.0

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Benny Malengier

release plan 3.4.2 and 4.0.0

I would like to suggest a release plan, and hope people can work towards this.

1. To aim for a 3.4.2 mid October, so in two weeks time.

2. To aim for a 4.0.0 Beta development release mid November.

4.0.0 could be followed by 4.0.1, ... but all would be beta releases.

Then 4.1 would be the next stable release, hopefully in spring 2013. I feel we need to push out 4.0 so that developers on windows, Mac, ..., and packagers, and plugin writers, can have all the problems worked out before a stable 4.1 release.

Benny

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John Ralls-2

Re: release plan 3.4.2 and 4.0.0

On Oct 2, 2012, at 1:34 AM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I would like to suggest a release plan, and hope people can work towards this.
>
> 1. To aim for a 3.4.2 mid October, so in two weeks time.
>
> 2. To aim for a 4.0.0 Beta development release mid November.
>
> 4.0.0 could be followed by 4.0.1, ... but all would be beta releases.
>
> Then 4.1 would be the next stable release, hopefully in spring 2013. I feel we need to push out 4.0 so that developers on windows, Mac, ..., and packagers, and plugin writers, can have all the problems worked out before a stable 4.1 release.

I'll be travelling from 12-26 November. Do you think we could do the beta release on the 9th?

Regards,
John Ralls

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Benny Malengier

Re: release plan 3.4.2 and 4.0.0

2012/10/2 John Ralls <[hidden email]>

On Oct 2, 2012, at 1:34 AM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I would like to suggest a release plan, and hope people can work towards this.
>
> 1. To aim for a 3.4.2 mid October, so in two weeks time.
>
> 2. To aim for a 4.0.0 Beta development release mid November.
>
> 4.0.0 could be followed by 4.0.1, ... but all would be beta releases.
>
> Then 4.1 would be the next stable release, hopefully in spring 2013. I feel we need to push out 4.0 so that developers on windows, Mac, ..., and packagers, and plugin writers, can have all the problems worked out before a stable 4.1 release.

I'll be travelling from 12-26 November. Do you think we could do the beta release on the 9th?

We can try !

Benny

Regards,
John Ralls

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Tim Lyons

Re: release plan 3.4.2 and 4.0.0

In reply to this post by Benny Malengier

Benny Malengier wrote

I would like to suggest a release plan, and hope people can work towards
this.

1. To aim for a 3.4.2 mid October, so in two weeks time.

2. To aim for a 4.0.0 Beta development release mid November.

4.0.0 could be followed by 4.0.1, ... but all would be beta releases.

Then 4.1 would be the next stable release, hopefully in spring 2013. I feel
we need to push out 4.0 so that developers on windows, Mac, ..., and
packagers, and plugin writers, can have all the problems worked out before
a stable 4.1 release.

I think that is an overly aggressive schedule!

There are two problems:
(1) how can "casual" gramps developers/translators/testers continue to up-port gramps34 patches to trunk?
(2) can you commit to not releasing trunk until the dependencies are at least in stable versions of the various linux builds (and hopefully in Windows build and MacPorts build)?

In July, there were comments like:
> 2012/7/24 John Ralls <[hidden email]>
>>
>>
>>
>> It occurs to me that we're being a bit aggressive in migrating to pygi:
>> Thanks to Bug 679654 [1] (and maybe others), Gramps won't actually run on
>> any current released Gtk. That means that even after the next release cycle
>> it's only going to work on bleeding-edge distros like Ubuntu and Debian
>> Unstable. That's going to freeze out a lot of users.

Yes, I feel the pain, but understand the motivation. The problem area
is for all of those "casual" gramps developers/translators/testers
that help because they are willing, can, and it isn't too much of a
burden. Well, this first step (like any first steps) is harder than it
should be. What can we do to make this easier for everyone?

I understand your arguments, but can you help people like ma a "casual" gramps developers/translators/testers?

What new dependencies need to be installed to run trunk?

I seem to remember reading that just installing a stable version of dependencies was not enough, and you need to install the bleeding edge from the latest git hub or something. Is that still the case? what does need to be installed?

I updated trunk on my Debian testing system at lunch time to see what was involved and had to pull in python-gi & python-gi-cairo from the experimental repository (not even Sid!) just to get it to start up. Looked really ugly on KDE too :) Being optimistic, maybe those versions might make it through to testing in a few months time and be available for real users by the time Gramps 4.0 is ready - and of course be more widely available in other distributions.

> But I am not close minded. If we give the current trunk a fair chance (say, one
> month) and we still have too many problems, then we can consider alternative
> strategies (like a parallel development branch).

I am grateful for the revision to the wiki, but that doesn't seem enough.

John Ralls-2

Re: release plan 3.4.2 and 4.0.0

On Oct 2, 2012, at 9:53 AM, Tim Lyons <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Benny Malengier wrote
>> I would like to suggest a release plan, and hope people can work towards
>> this.
>>
>> 1. To aim for a 3.4.2 mid October, so in two weeks time.
>>
>> 2. To aim for a 4.0.0 Beta development release mid November.
>>
>> 4.0.0 could be followed by 4.0.1, ... but all would be beta releases.
>>
>> Then 4.1 would be the next stable release, hopefully in spring 2013. I
>> feel
>> we need to push out 4.0 so that developers on windows, Mac, ..., and
>> packagers, and plugin writers, can have all the problems worked out before
>> a stable 4.1 release.
>
>
> I think that is an overly aggressive schedule!
>
> There are two problems:
> (1) how can "casual" gramps developers/translators/testers continue to
> up-port gramps34 patches to trunk?
> (2) can you commit to not releasing trunk until the dependencies are at
> least in stable versions of the various linux builds (and hopefully in
> Windows build and MacPorts build)?

I can't think of any good reason to wait for MacPorts. In fact, they seem not to have a port for pygobject, so the wait might be forever.

>
> In July, there were comments like:
>> 2012/7/24 John Ralls <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It occurs to me that we're being a bit aggressive in migrating to pygi:
>>> Thanks to Bug 679654 [1] (and maybe others), Gramps won't actually run on
>>> any current released Gtk. That means that even after the next release
>>> cycle
>>> it's only going to work on bleeding-edge distros like Ubuntu and Debian
>>> Unstable. That's going to freeze out a lot of users.
>
> Yes, I feel the pain, but understand the motivation. The problem area
> is for all of those "casual" gramps developers/translators/testers
> that help because they are willing, can, and it isn't too much of a
> burden. Well, this first step (like any first steps) is harder than it
> should be. What can we do to make this easier for everyone?
>
> I understand your arguments, but can you help people like ma a "casual"
> gramps developers/translators/testers?
>
> What new dependencies need to be installed to run trunk?
>
> I seem to remember reading that just installing a stable version of
> dependencies was not enough, and you need to install the bleeding edge from
> the latest git hub or something. Is that still the case? what does need to
> be installed?
>

That bug is fixed, and Gnome has just done their fall releases -- Gtk 3.6, Pango 1.32, and PyGObject 3.4 -- so the comment about not running in a stable Gtk is no longer true. They'll be in Ubuntu 12.10 and Fedora 18, so Linux users on the edge will be able to run Gramps (mostly, see below) by the time of the beta release. Non-bleeding-edge Linux users will have to wait, perhaps for a couple of years. That's not unusual.

I said that I was using git master the Gtk3 stack because Gramps was turning up some quartz bugs and its easiest for me to commit the fixes that way. Gnome has just gone through a commit cycle, so Gtk+-3.6.0 and Pango 1.32.1 have all of those changes, and Gramps seems to be mostly happy. Those changes are of no interest to Linux distros, though, so that's not an issue for them. It might be for MacPorts, but they don't seem to support PyGObject anyway, so perhaps that's moot.

There are, however, two dependencies that aren't going to be in any distro. They're optional, meaning that you can run Gramps without them, but they're really nice to have:

For Navigation view, you need Serge's updates to osm-gps-maps [1]. (Aside: Serge, you really should generate a pull request back to John Stowers (nzjrs) so that he can integrate your changes.) It seems unlikely that this will be available in distros anytime soon, never mind MacPorts.

GtkSpell3 is in really good shape, but Sandro has been doing all of the work in his Github repo [2] instead of on Sourceforge, so we still need him to merge his changes back into the main branch, commit them to the Hg repo on SF, and do a release.

I don't know what MacPorts's plans are for any of this, but if you switch to Gtk-OSX, you can just use trunk/mac/gramps.modules for your moduleset and jhbuild will get all of the right stuff.

Once the beta is released, you can just download it and work inside the app bundle after you set $PYTHON, $PYTHONHOME, and $PYTHONPATH to point inside it. (I think with everything in python2.7/site-packages we don't need $GRAMPSHOME any more. Is that right?)

Regards,
John Ralls

[1] git://github.com/SNoiraud/osm-gps-map.git, gtk3 branch
[2] git://github.com/manisandro/gtkspell3.git, changes branch
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Emmanuel Briot

Re: release plan 3.4.2 and 4.0.0

> I can't think of any good reason to wait for MacPorts. In fact, they seem not to have a port for pygobject, so the wait might be forever.

They do, I think. I have installed gobject-introspection and py-gobject3 and I have a full pygobject environment:

>>> from gi.repository import Gtk
>>> win = Gtk.Window()
>>> win.show_all()
>>> Gtk.main()

What they don't seem to have, though, are the themes for gtk3 (I probably missed them).

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John Ralls-2

Re: release plan 3.4.2 and 4.0.0

In reply to this post by John Ralls-2

On Oct 2, 2012, at 6:42 AM, John Ralls <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Oct 2, 2012, at 1:34 AM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I would like to suggest a release plan, and hope people can work towards this.
>>
>> 1. To aim for a 3.4.2 mid October, so in two weeks time.
>>
>> 2. To aim for a 4.0.0 Beta development release mid November.
>>
>> 4.0.0 could be followed by 4.0.1, ... but all would be beta releases.
>>
>> Then 4.1 would be the next stable release, hopefully in spring 2013. I feel we need to push out 4.0 so that developers on windows, Mac, ..., and packagers, and plugin writers, can have all the problems worked out before a stable 4.1 release.
>
> I'll be travelling from 12-26 November. Do you think we could do the beta release on the 9th?

Benny,

What's your thinking on when to do the 4.0.0 release? I did a trial build (against Gnome 3.6) and bundle of trunk today, and apart from an apparent GSettings issue when I tried to use the browse button for setting the DB folder in preferences, it looks pretty good. I think it's good enough for an alpha release this weekend -- or sooner.

Regards,
John Ralls

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Benny Malengier

Re: release plan 3.4.2 and 4.0.0

Well,

I have been looking into python 3 support, and a lot has to change again.
So I'm now leaning into trying python3 support, so that the big break is for 4.0, and not again for 4.1.
If we do that, middle of november is probably to soon...

The diff I have for python 3 support is 32841 lines at the moment :-)
Mostly minor things like u' ' and import stuff.
I'm going through it, I should know by the weeks end if it is doable.

I hear archlinux is on python 3 already as default python, so being able to support python 2.7 and python 3.2 would be nice, so that we can deprecate 2.x in 2014 or 2015 without a big shock.

Benny

2012/11/6 John Ralls <[hidden email]>

On Oct 2, 2012, at 6:42 AM, John Ralls <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Oct 2, 2012, at 1:34 AM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I would like to suggest a release plan, and hope people can work towards this.
>>
>> 1. To aim for a 3.4.2 mid October, so in two weeks time.
>>
>> 2. To aim for a 4.0.0 Beta development release mid November.
>>
>> 4.0.0 could be followed by 4.0.1, ... but all would be beta releases.
>>
>> Then 4.1 would be the next stable release, hopefully in spring 2013. I feel we need to push out 4.0 so that developers on windows, Mac, ..., and packagers, and plugin writers, can have all the problems worked out before a stable 4.1 release.
>
> I'll be travelling from 12-26 November. Do you think we could do the beta release on the 9th?

Benny,

What's your thinking on when to do the 4.0.0 release? I did a trial build (against Gnome 3.6) and bundle of trunk today, and apart from an apparent GSettings issue when I tried to use the browse button for setting the DB folder in preferences, it looks pretty good. I think it's good enough for an alpha release this weekend -- or sooner.

Regards,
John Ralls

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John Ralls-2

Re: release plan 3.4.2 and 4.0.0

On Nov 5, 2012, at 11:49 PM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:

Well,

I have been looking into python 3 support, and a lot has to change again.
So I'm now leaning into trying python3 support, so that the big break is for 4.0, and not again for 4.1.
If we do that, middle of november is probably to soon...

The diff I have for python 3 support is 32841 lines at the moment :-)
Mostly minor things like u' ' and import stuff.
I'm going through it, I should know by the weeks end if it is doable.

I hear archlinux is on python 3 already as default python, so being able to support python 2.7 and python 3.2 would be nice, so that we can deprecate 2.x in 2014 or 2015 without a big shock.

OK. I think that's a good idea, but if the release doesn't happen this weekend I won't be able to make Mac bundles until I get back from Japan at the end of the month.

Regards,

John Ralls

2012/11/6 John Ralls <[hidden email]>

On Oct 2, 2012, at 6:42 AM, John Ralls <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Oct 2, 2012, at 1:34 AM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I would like to suggest a release plan, and hope people can work towards this.
>>
>> 1. To aim for a 3.4.2 mid October, so in two weeks time.
>>
>> 2. To aim for a 4.0.0 Beta development release mid November.
>>
>> 4.0.0 could be followed by 4.0.1, ... but all would be beta releases.
>>
>> Then 4.1 would be the next stable release, hopefully in spring 2013. I feel we need to push out 4.0 so that developers on windows, Mac, ..., and packagers, and plugin writers, can have all the problems worked out before a stable 4.1 release.
>
> I'll be travelling from 12-26 November. Do you think we could do the beta release on the 9th?

Benny,

What's your thinking on when to do the 4.0.0 release? I did a trial build (against Gnome 3.6) and bundle of trunk today, and apart from an apparent GSettings issue when I tried to use the browse button for setting the DB folder in preferences, it looks pretty good. I think it's good enough for an alpha release this weekend -- or sooner.

Regards,
John Ralls

Benny Malengier

Re: release plan 3.4.2 and 4.0.0

2012/11/6 John Ralls <[hidden email]>

On Nov 5, 2012, at 11:49 PM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:

Well,

I have been looking into python 3 support, and a lot has to change again.
So I'm now leaning into trying python3 support, so that the big break is for 4.0, and not again for 4.1.
If we do that, middle of november is probably to soon...

The diff I have for python 3 support is 32841 lines at the moment :-)
Mostly minor things like u' ' and import stuff.
I'm going through it, I should know by the weeks end if it is doable.

I hear archlinux is on python 3 already as default python, so being able to support python 2.7 and python 3.2 would be nice, so that we can deprecate 2.x in 2014 or 2015 without a big shock.

OK. I think that's a good idea, but if the release doesn't happen this weekend I won't be able to make Mac bundles until I get back from Japan at the end of the month.

Ok, I'll keep it in mind.

Last I tried a linux install some things went wrong (like, I have an fr directory in / now :-). So some work will be needed there too.

I said mid november because I have some free days then. Will probably be difficult to finish everything though. It is an alpha release, mid november is not set in stone...

Benny

Regards,
John Ralls

2012/11/6 John Ralls <[hidden email]>

On Oct 2, 2012, at 6:42 AM, John Ralls <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Oct 2, 2012, at 1:34 AM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I would like to suggest a release plan, and hope people can work towards this.
>>
>> 1. To aim for a 3.4.2 mid October, so in two weeks time.
>>
>> 2. To aim for a 4.0.0 Beta development release mid November.
>>
>> 4.0.0 could be followed by 4.0.1, ... but all would be beta releases.
>>
>> Then 4.1 would be the next stable release, hopefully in spring 2013. I feel we need to push out 4.0 so that developers on windows, Mac, ..., and packagers, and plugin writers, can have all the problems worked out before a stable 4.1 release.
>
> I'll be travelling from 12-26 November. Do you think we could do the beta release on the 9th?

Benny,

What's your thinking on when to do the 4.0.0 release? I did a trial build (against Gnome 3.6) and bundle of trunk today, and apart from an apparent GSettings issue when I tried to use the browse button for setting the DB folder in preferences, it looks pretty good. I think it's good enough for an alpha release this weekend -- or sooner.

Regards,
John Ralls

jerome

Re: release plan 3.4.2 and 4.0.0

In reply to this post by Benny Malengier

Maybe some issues could be quickly fixed on current code (trunk).

* Print function and quadran Fan Chart type
http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=6113

* Addon dialog
http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=6112

Others problems are also reported[1], but some are maybe more specific (python or internal/data things)

* FanChart views
http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=6125

* undo history
http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/view.php?id=6123

Note, on last large bug triage, we moved some 'old' remaining bug reports to the roadmap[1] for the next major release: 4.x! Maybe they should move to an other roadmap (4.01, 4.1?).

[1] http://www.gramps-project.org/bugs/roadmap_page.php?version_id=34

--- En date de : Mar 6.11.12, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> a écrit :

De: Benny Malengier <[hidden email]>
Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] release plan 3.4.2 and 4.0.0
À: "John Ralls" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Gramps Development List" <[hidden email]>
Date: Mardi 6 novembre 2012, 8h49

Well,

I have been looking into python 3 support, and a lot has to change again.
So I'm now leaning into trying python3 support, so that the big break is for 4.0, and not again for 4.1.
If we do that, middle of november is probably to soon...

The diff I have for python 3 support is 32841 lines at the moment :-)
Mostly minor things like u' ' and import stuff.
I'm going through it, I should know by the weeks end if it is doable.

I hear archlinux is on python 3 already as default python, so being able to support python 2.7 and python 3.2 would be nice, so that we can deprecate 2.x in 2014 or 2015 without a big shock.

Benny

2012/11/6 John Ralls <[hidden email]>

On Oct 2, 2012, at 6:42 AM, John Ralls <[hidden email]> wrote:

>

> On Oct 2, 2012, at 1:34 AM, Benny Malengier <[hidden email]> wrote:

>

>> I would like to suggest a release plan, and hope people can work towards this.

>>

>> 1. To aim for a 3.4.2 mid October, so in two weeks time.

>>

>> 2. To aim for a 4.0.0 Beta development release mid November.

>>

>> 4.0.0 could be followed by 4.0.1, ... but all would be beta releases.

>>

>> Then 4.1 would be the next stable release, hopefully in spring 2013. I feel we need to push out 4.0 so that developers on windows, Mac, ..., and packagers, and plugin writers, can have all the problems worked out before a stable 4.1 release.

>

> I'll be travelling from 12-26 November. Do you think we could do the beta release on the 9th?

Benny,

What's your thinking on when to do the 4.0.0 release? I did a trial build (against Gnome 3.6) and bundle of trunk today, and apart from an apparent GSettings issue when I tried to use the browse button for setting the DB folder in preferences, it looks pretty good. I think it's good enough for an alpha release this weekend -- or sooner.

Regards,

John Ralls

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Benny Malengier

Re: release plan 3.4.2 and 4.0.0

Let's be very clear, this would be an _alpha_ release, not a beta release. So extra features can still land.
The main aim for a release is not to have a stable version, but to have an unstable version plugin writers and packagers can use to create installer and update their plugins. Also, more testers might be attracted this way to help fix the releases
The entire 4.0.x releases would be _unstable_.
When it is stable, we would release 4.1.0.

So, it would be nice if the bugs you mention are fixed, but for an alpha release not the essense. You can compare it with Gnome, KDE, ubuntu which prerelease on a schedule independent of the quality of the work.

Benny

2012/11/7 jerome <[hidden email]>

Maybe some issues could be quickly fixed on current code (trunk).

Gary Burton

Re: release plan 3.4.2 and 4.0.0

>Let's be very clear, this would be an _alpha_ release, not a beta release. So extra features can still land.
>The main aim for a release is not to have a stable version, but to have an unstable version plugin writers and packagers can use to create installer and update their plugins. Also, more testers might be attracted this way to help fix the releases
>The entire 4.0.x releases would be _unstable_.
>When it is stable, we would release 4.1.0.
>
>So, it would be nice if the bugs you mention are fixed, but for an alpha release not the essense. You can compare it with Gnome, KDE, ubuntu which prerelease on a schedule independent of the quality of the work.
>
>Benny

Thinking of KDE, we should make it really, really clear to our users too (in big bold letters) that 4.0.x should not be treated as a stable release. We won't want the same problems KDE faced when they released 4.0.

Bye

Gary

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Serge Noiraud-2

Re: release plan 3.4.2 and 4.0.0

Le 07/11/2012 13:12, Gary Burton a écrit :
>> Let's be very clear, this would be an _alpha_ release, not a beta release. So extra features can still land.
>> The main aim for a release is not to have a stable version, but to have an unstable version plugin writers and packagers can use to create installer and update their plugins. Also, more testers might be attracted this way to help fix the releases
>> The entire 4.0.x releases would be _unstable_.
>> When it is stable, we would release 4.1.0.
>>
>> So, it would be nice if the bugs you mention are fixed, but for an alpha release not the essense. You can compare it with Gnome, KDE, ubuntu which prerelease on a schedule independent of the quality of the work.
>>
>> Benny
> Thinking of KDE, we should make it really, really clear to our users too (in big bold letters) that 4.0.x should not be treated as a stable release. We won't want the same problems KDE faced when they released 4.0.
I agree : +1
>
> Bye
>
> Gary

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Benny Malengier

Re: release plan 3.4.2 and 4.0.0

2012/11/7 Serge Noiraud <[hidden email]>

Le 07/11/2012 13:12, Gary Burton a écrit :

>> Let's be very clear, this would be an _alpha_ release, not a beta release. So extra features can still land.
>> The main aim for a release is not to have a stable version, but to have an unstable version plugin writers and packagers can use to create installer and update their plugins. Also, more testers might be attracted this way to help fix the releases
>> The entire 4.0.x releases would be _unstable_.
>> When it is stable, we would release 4.1.0.
>>
>> So, it would be nice if the bugs you mention are fixed, but for an alpha release not the essense. You can compare it with Gnome, KDE, ubuntu which prerelease on a schedule independent of the quality of the work.
>>
>> Benny
> Thinking of KDE, we should make it really, really clear to our users too (in big bold letters) that 4.0.x should not be treated as a stable release. We won't want the same problems KDE faced when they released 4.0.

I agree : +1

Yes, in sourceforge we have an unstable section, so that is ok.
If packagers add that nevertheless to their repo, then we have a problem, just like KDE 4.0. But them doing that is out of our control. Let's hope they don't do it.

If Trevor does not make a Debian package in debian testing, we should be mostly ok I think.

Benny

>
> Bye
>
> Gary

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