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unsubscribe

dartsft
thank you

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Randall Dodds


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

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Contact Number:727-459-3812
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Re: unsubscribe

Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI
On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 07:30:21 -0500
Randall Dodds <[hidden email]> wrote:

> thank you

Why not use the instructions found the the headers of every single list message ?

> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/options/gramps-users>,
>  <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
--
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                      who doesn't have to do it himself.
                                          -- A.H. Weiler
                                   
                   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
 


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Re: unsubscribe

Colin Spiller
Why are the unsubscribe instructions in the headers that nobody knows about?

Other lists I'm on put them in the message footer so they can be found
easily.

Colin


On 11/12/2019 13:02, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 07:30:21 -0500
> Randall Dodds <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> thank you
> Why not use the instructions found the the headers of every single list message ?
>
>> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/options/gramps-users>,
>>   <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>  
> Cheers,
>  
> Ron.

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Re: unsubscribe

GRAMPS - User mailing list
On 11/12/2019 16:32, Colin Spiller wrote:
> Other lists I'm on put them in the message footer so they can be found
> easily.

You can also click on the second link in the footer.

Nick.




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Re: unsubscribe

Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI
In reply to this post by Colin Spiller
On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 16:32:29 +0000
Colin Spiller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Why are the unsubscribe instructions in the headers that nobody knows about?

Blame your email client for hiding the message headers ?

Or blame ourself for configuring the email client to hide the headers ?
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
--
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Re: unsubscribe

mc
In reply to this post by Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI

The unsubscribe line is hidden on my Windows and my Mac computers.
Have not checked on a Linux computer.
Is this normal?
Windows 10 - firefox 71
and Mac catalina Firefox 71

Actually only use Windows for emails

Coullone

On 2019-12-12 00:02, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 07:30:21 -0500
> Randall Dodds <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> thank you
>
> Why not use the instructions found the the headers of every single
> list message ?
>
>> List-Unsubscribe:
>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/options/gramps-users>,
>>  
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ron.
> --
>                       Nothing is impossible for the man
>                       who doesn't have to do it himself.
>                                           -- A.H. Weiler
>
>                    -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --



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Re: unsubscribe

Chris Wood
I use Linux and see no unsubscribe link when I get posts. But I use Gmail which is browser based so I doubt it's anything to do with the OS. I use both Chrome and Firefox.

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 at 22:13, <[hidden email]> wrote:

The unsubscribe line is hidden on my Windows and my Mac computers.
Have not checked on a Linux computer.
Is this normal?
Windows 10 - firefox 71
and Mac catalina Firefox 71

Actually only use Windows for emails

Coullone

On 2019-12-12 00:02, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 07:30:21 -0500
> Randall Dodds <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> thank you
>
> Why not use the instructions found the the headers of every single
> list message ?
>
>> List-Unsubscribe:
>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/options/gramps-users>,
>> 
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ron.
> --
>                       Nothing is impossible for the man
>                       who doesn't have to do it himself.
>                                           -- A.H. Weiler
>
>                    -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --



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Re: unsubscribe

Peter Merchant
I am using Thunderbird on Kubuntu Linux and I usually see three links at the bottom of all emails, but in both your reply and Coullone's it doesn't appear. See below.
Peter

On 12/12/2019 08:41, Chris Wood wrote:
I use Linux and see no unsubscribe link when I get posts. But I use Gmail which is browser based so I doubt it's anything to do with the OS. I use both Chrome and Firefox.

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 at 22:13, <[hidden email]> wrote:

The unsubscribe line is hidden on my Windows and my Mac computers.
Have not checked on a Linux computer.
Is this normal?
Windows 10 - firefox 71
and Mac catalina Firefox 71

Actually only use Windows for emails

Coullone

On 2019-12-12 00:02, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 07:30:21 -0500
> Randall Dodds <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> thank you
>
> Why not use the instructions found the the headers of every single
> list message ?
>
>> List-Unsubscribe:
>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/options/gramps-users>,
>> 
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ron.
> --
>                       Nothing is impossible for the man
>                       who doesn't have to do it himself.
>                                           -- A.H. Weiler
>
>                    -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --



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Re: unsubscribe

enno
In reply to this post by mc
It's not a computer problem, but it's you. When you use Firefox or another browser to read our messages on the Gmail site, you will see three dots at the bottom of each message, hiding the message you reply to, like I see while typing this, and also hiding the signature with unsubscribe instructions.

And since the problem is in your use of Gmail, it's easy to solve, by you, because all you have to do is click those three dots to reveal them.

Cheers,

Enno


Op wo 11 dec. 2019 om 23:13 schreef <[hidden email]>:

The unsubscribe line is hidden on my Windows and my Mac computers.
Have not checked on a Linux computer.
Is this normal?
Windows 10 - firefox 71
and Mac catalina Firefox 71

Actually only use Windows for emails

Coullone

On 2019-12-12 00:02, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 07:30:21 -0500
> Randall Dodds <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> thank you
>
> Why not use the instructions found the the headers of every single
> list message ?
>
>> List-Unsubscribe:
>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/options/gramps-users>,
>> 
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ron.
> --
>                       Nothing is impossible for the man
>                       who doesn't have to do it himself.
>                                           -- A.H. Weiler
>
>                    -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --



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Re: unsubscribe

Charles T. Bell
In reply to this post by Peter Merchant

I, too, use Thunderbird and I can see the unsubscribe when I go to "View" -> "Headers" -> "All". 

"View" -> "Headers" -> "Normal" hides the "List-Unsubscribe" listing near the bottom.

Good luck!

Tom

On 12/12/19 4:26 AM, Peter Merchant wrote:
I am using Thunderbird on Kubuntu Linux and I usually see three links at the bottom of all emails, but in both your reply and Coullone's it doesn't appear. See below.
Peter

On 12/12/2019 08:41, Chris Wood wrote:
I use Linux and see no unsubscribe link when I get posts. But I use Gmail which is browser based so I doubt it's anything to do with the OS. I use both Chrome and Firefox.

On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 at 22:13, <[hidden email]> wrote:

The unsubscribe line is hidden on my Windows and my Mac computers.
Have not checked on a Linux computer.
Is this normal?
Windows 10 - firefox 71
and Mac catalina Firefox 71

Actually only use Windows for emails

Coullone

On 2019-12-12 00:02, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 07:30:21 -0500
> Randall Dodds <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> thank you
>
> Why not use the instructions found the the headers of every single
> list message ?
>
>> List-Unsubscribe:
>> <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/options/gramps-users>,
>> 
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ron.
> --
>                       Nothing is impossible for the man
>                       who doesn't have to do it himself.
>                                           -- A.H. Weiler
>
>                    -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --



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Re: unsubscribe

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by enno
On 12/12/2019 09:43, Enno Borgsteede wrote:
> And since the problem is in your use of Gmail, it's easy to solve, by
> you, because all you have to do is click those three dots to reveal them.
>
The mailing list footer was changed in response to discussion in the
following thread:

https://sourceforge.net/p/gramps/mailman/message/36652813/

This included using a valid signature separator line before the footer. 
Email software may choose to handle this in different ways.


Nick.




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Re: unsubscribe

Chris Wood
In reply to this post by enno
Nope. Clicking the 3 dots reveals this:


No unsubscribe link there.

On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 at 09:44, Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]> wrote:
It's not a computer problem, but it's you. When you use Firefox or another browser to read our messages on the Gmail site, you will see three dots at the bottom of each message, hiding the message you reply to, like I see while typing this, and also hiding the signature with unsubscribe instructions.

And since the problem is in your use of Gmail, it's easy to solve, by you, because all you have to do is click those three dots to reveal them.

Cheers,

Enno


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Re: unsubscribe

enno
See 2nd link (list info)

Op do 12 dec. 2019 om 12:39 schreef Chris Wood <[hidden email]>:
Nope. Clicking the 3 dots reveals this:


No unsubscribe link there.

On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 at 09:44, Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]> wrote:
It's not a computer problem, but it's you. When you use Firefox or another browser to read our messages on the Gmail site, you will see three dots at the bottom of each message, hiding the message you reply to, like I see while typing this, and also hiding the signature with unsubscribe instructions.

And since the problem is in your use of Gmail, it's easy to solve, by you, because all you have to do is click those three dots to reveal them.

Cheers,

Enno
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Re: unsubscribe

StoltHD
Folks, you really can NOT assume that normal users of Gramps knows rhat a info libk is where you find the link to unsubscribe, and you can NOT assume that a normal user knows how to show email headers in a mail client...
Let me put it this way, its rude to assume that every user of Gramps or the email list, that actually are the way to get help, even knows that there is anything like a email header! 

You reallly know how to chase people away from using Gramps, and at least from contributing!


tor. 12. des. 2019, 12.43 skrev Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]>:
See 2nd link (list info)

Op do 12 dec. 2019 om 12:39 schreef Chris Wood <[hidden email]>:
Nope. Clicking the 3 dots reveals this:


No unsubscribe link there.

On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 at 09:44, Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]> wrote:
It's not a computer problem, but it's you. When you use Firefox or another browser to read our messages on the Gmail site, you will see three dots at the bottom of each message, hiding the message you reply to, like I see while typing this, and also hiding the signature with unsubscribe instructions.

And since the problem is in your use of Gmail, it's easy to solve, by you, because all you have to do is click those three dots to reveal them.

Cheers,

Enno
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Re: unsubscribe

Chris Wood
In reply to this post by enno
Well, yes, OK. But you have to know that it's there. The original issue was that the OP didn't know how to unsubscribe and there's nothing to indicate this is where he should go. Normally unsubscribe links in emails are labelled as such.

On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 at 11:43, Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]> wrote:
See 2nd link (list info)

Op do 12 dec. 2019 om 12:39 schreef Chris Wood <[hidden email]>:
Nope. Clicking the 3 dots reveals this:


No unsubscribe link there.

On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 at 09:44, Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]> wrote:
It's not a computer problem, but it's you. When you use Firefox or another browser to read our messages on the Gmail site, you will see three dots at the bottom of each message, hiding the message you reply to, like I see while typing this, and also hiding the signature with unsubscribe instructions.

And since the problem is in your use of Gmail, it's easy to solve, by you, because all you have to do is click those three dots to reveal them.

Cheers,

Enno
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Re: unsubscribe

enno
In reply to this post by StoltHD
Why not? They're humans, not robots, so they should be able to do a bit of exploring. I mean, when you buy a computer, you don't get a detailed manual on how to use Windows, let alone the internet. You learn by exploring, and if you can't learn that way, you shouldn't use a computer at all.

What I see here is users that are too lazy to do a bit of reading, and when I show them that everything they ask for can be read, I get attacked. Why can't I criticize them. Should I expect that list members really are too stupid to read?



Op do 12 dec. 2019 om 12:58 schreef StoltHD <[hidden email]>:
Folks, you really can NOT assume that normal users of Gramps knows rhat a info libk is where you find the link to unsubscribe, and you can NOT assume that a normal user knows how to show email headers in a mail client...
Let me put it this way, its rude to assume that every user of Gramps or the email list, that actually are the way to get help, even knows that there is anything like a email header! 

You reallly know how to chase people away from using Gramps, and at least from contributing!


tor. 12. des. 2019, 12.43 skrev Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]>:
See 2nd link (list info)

Op do 12 dec. 2019 om 12:39 schreef Chris Wood <[hidden email]>:
Nope. Clicking the 3 dots reveals this:


No unsubscribe link there.

On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 at 09:44, Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]> wrote:
It's not a computer problem, but it's you. When you use Firefox or another browser to read our messages on the Gmail site, you will see three dots at the bottom of each message, hiding the message you reply to, like I see while typing this, and also hiding the signature with unsubscribe instructions.

And since the problem is in your use of Gmail, it's easy to solve, by you, because all you have to do is click those three dots to reveal them.

Cheers,

Enno
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Re: unsubscribe

Colin Spiller
In reply to this post by StoltHD

+1


On 12/12/2019 11:55, StoltHD wrote:
Folks, you really can NOT assume that normal users of Gramps knows rhat a info libk is where you find the link to unsubscribe, and you can NOT assume that a normal user knows how to show email headers in a mail client...
Let me put it this way, its rude to assume that every user of Gramps or the email list, that actually are the way to get help, even knows that there is anything like a email header! 

You reallly know how to chase people away from using Gramps, and at least from contributing!


tor. 12. des. 2019, 12.43 skrev Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]>:
See 2nd link (list info)

Op do 12 dec. 2019 om 12:39 schreef Chris Wood <[hidden email]>:
Nope. Clicking the 3 dots reveals this:


No unsubscribe link there.

On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 at 09:44, Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]> wrote:
It's not a computer problem, but it's you. When you use Firefox or another browser to read our messages on the Gmail site, you will see three dots at the bottom of each message, hiding the message you reply to, like I see while typing this, and also hiding the signature with unsubscribe instructions.

And since the problem is in your use of Gmail, it's easy to solve, by you, because all you have to do is click those three dots to reveal them.

Cheers,

Enno
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Re: unsubscribe

Brad Rogers
In reply to this post by StoltHD
On Thu, 12 Dec 2019 12:55:39 +0100
StoltHD <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello StoltHD,

>Folks, you really can NOT assume that normal users of Gramps knows rhat
>a info libk is where you find the link to unsubscribe, and you can NOT

We're *researchers*.  How hard is it to research?  (rhetorical)

>assume that a normal user knows how to show email headers in a mail
>client... Let me put it this way, its rude to assume that every user of

To be fair, not all MUAs allow it in any case.  Notably web clients and
pretty much anything from microsoft.

Besides, as part of the subscription process, I was sent (un)subscribe
instructions and useful list commands.  How hard is it to keep those
around?  (again, rhetorical)

Finally, mailing lists have been around for more than 20 years.  The way
they operate hasn't changed that much in all that time.

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         / )           "The blindingly obvious is
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Re: unsubscribe

GRAMPS - User mailing list
In reply to this post by GRAMPS - User mailing list
After starting that previous discussion about revising the standard signature, I came to the realization that there were too many firmly held & competing opinions to resolve.

He is my takeaway on the subject:

1) 'Unsubscribing' for the 3 Gramps MailLists is unobvious & convoluted but unlikely to change. It is a clear-cut 'newbie' feature and there are certain 'rites of passage' prejudices that this community unconsciously holds. (My feeling is that if any subscriber feels uncomfortable, it is in everyone's best interest to make leaving incredibly easy -- while extending our communal regrets and a broad 'open arms' invitation to return. 'Opt out' should be the default.  [I agree with StoItHD on this subject. I often agree with his astute observations but wince at how angrily he presents them.]) 

2) 'information hiding' by eMail client apps is in constant flux but becoming more pervasive. Expecting a consistent user experience is unreasonable. --- Many clients now hide headers and mask eMail addresses by default. Revealing the underlying data has become an advanced user operation. The "show more/show less/ellipsis" option is also becoming increasingly dominant. Yahoo's client is now flirting with transparently hiding quoted material -- which can render 'in-line answer' replies as indecipherably cryptic. That's why I continue to use the annoying top-post style, written conversationally with full paragraphs. 

3) I decided to just be happy that the signature line divider doesn't wrap anymore on my Smart Phone! It is good enough that the signature now follows the (largely unsupported) standard of "linefeed-hyphen-hyphen-space-linefeed" so that SOME systems will strip the redundant signature when replying.  The 3 suspiciously enigmatic hotlinks will probably remain a 'rite of passage'

-Brian

On Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 4:47, Nick Hall via Gramps-users
On 12/12/2019 09:43, Enno Borgsteede wrote:
> And since the problem is in your use of Gmail, it's easy to solve, by you, because all you have to do is click those three dots to reveal them.
>
The mailing list footer was changed in response to discussion in the
following thread:

https://sourceforge.net/p/gramps/mailman/message/36652813/

This included using a valid signature separator line before the footer. 
Email software may choose to handle this in different ways.

Nick.


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Re: unsubscribe

mc
In reply to this post by enno
Just checked for the unsubscribe note
This is what I got. Suggest you search for unsubscribe that is not the
post subject. Who would do normally!!
The problem (in my case) appears to be the Roundcube mail system which I
have used since e-mails began as it is part of most hosting packages.
Looks like I might have to find another that works on Mac, Windows and
the Various Linux/Unix systems I use.
Martin Coull
Using constructing, configuring programming and using computers since
1960 (and that is NOT a typo).

This is the header as reported in Roundcube on a Windows 10 Laptop:-

Return-Path: <[hidden email]>
Delivered-To: [hidden email]
Received: from web10.hosting-cloud.net
     by web10.hosting-cloud.net with LMTP
     id sI36CPEv8l16dAAAFnZtDw
     (envelope-from <[hidden email]>)
     for <[hidden email]>; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 23:17:53 +1100
Return-path: <[hidden email]>
Envelope-to: [hidden email]
Delivery-date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 23:17:53 +1100
X-Spam-Status: No
X-Hosting-Cloud-MailScanner-From:
[hidden email]
X-Hosting-Cloud-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (not
cached,
     score=-5.099, required 5, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_00 -1.90,
     DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED 0.00, DKIM_SIGNED 0.10, FREEMAIL_FROM 0.00,
     HTML_MESSAGE 0.00, MAILING_LIST_MULTI -1.00, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED
-2.30,
     SPF_HELO_PASS -0.00, SPF_PASS -0.00)
X-Hosting-Cloud-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-Hosting-Cloud-MailScanner-ID: 1ifNPh-0002Uv-Mx
X-Hosting-Cloud-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more
information
Received: from lists.sourceforge.net ([216.105.38.7]:57484)
     by web10.hosting-cloud.net with esmtps
(TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256)
     (Exim 4.92)
     (envelope-from <[hidden email]>)
     id 1ifNPh-0002Uv-Mx
     for [hidden email]; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 23:17:50 +1100
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=sfs-ml-4.v29.lw.sourceforge.com)
     by sfs-ml-4.v29.lw.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1)
     (envelope-from <[hidden email]>)
     id 1ifNNh-0004qk-VA; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 12:15:45 +0000
Received: from [172.30.20.202] (helo=mx.sourceforge.net)
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     (envelope-from <[hidden email]>) id 1ifNNf-0004qb-Js
     for [hidden email]; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 12:15:43
+0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed;
     d=sourceforge.net; s=x;
h=Content-Type:Cc:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:From:
     
In-Reply-To:References:MIME-Version:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding
     
:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:
     
Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:
     List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive;
     bh=wSH+5HzMv/96UbJI8G9lOaIug8GETGZ0RVVKXFjzhvM=;
b=icKlzhhxg6pBgezKuSTu7LEFyh
     
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DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=sf.net; s=x
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     MIME-Version:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:
     
Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc
     
:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:
     List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive;
     bh=wSH+5HzMv/96UbJI8G9lOaIug8GETGZ0RVVKXFjzhvM=;
b=X/IsB5AzhMsvB9gijffxZ/+5A2
     
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xsBnnB9r6Xxvk/UW4vSq7sP4TH5KyNtTm/NAcXJzwoUayOru23VZouYgxfAHMTMaPcfY=;
Received: from mail-ot1-f52.google.com ([209.85.210.52])
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     (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92.2)
     id 1ifNNe-002pvn-1B
     for [hidden email]; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 12:15:43
+0000
Received: by mail-ot1-f52.google.com with SMTP id i15so1730108oto.7
     for <[hidden email]>; Thu, 12 Dec 2019 04:15:41
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DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com;
s=20161025;
     
h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to
     :cc; bh=wSH+5HzMv/96UbJI8G9lOaIug8GETGZ0RVVKXFjzhvM=;
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     9EEg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
     d=1e100.net; s=20161025;
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     :message-id:subject:to:cc;
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     8UNw==
X-Gm-Message-State:
APjAAAXcppE0HZtpcrZhaZRAwkfCydgKcvOo5UaUsdpDBt1gWwEd/fd8
     Cro2RVBJq5lCGVTphekrbtG5GeNrpVmQ1wZFZJA=
X-Google-Smtp-Source:
APXvYqy+wGJ+vG8ubToB1+iWGbDPvNbP3+RqW+miE6V7u6zQ8HYVQ6EyAf6QX6NCz+fvqmRi4rP6mhjXtQ4MZXWtpV4=
X-Received: by 2002:a9d:4789:: with SMTP id
b9mr8096490otf.110.1576152931208;
     Thu, 12 Dec 2019 04:15:31 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <[hidden email]>
     <[hidden email]>
     <[hidden email]>
     <CAKOxfgkBm168AH04640q6UTjWfDQ1RbTB=[hidden email]>
     <CABN8Op8Bd5XS+if6OXHToKURYd-V+FEFe=[hidden email]>
     <[hidden email]>
     <[hidden email]>
In-Reply-To:
<[hidden email]>
 From: Enno Borgsteede <[hidden email]>
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 13:15:19 +0100
Message-ID:
<CAKOxfgncyjRtEYPTQkdDT0eACkBr8E=[hidden email]>
To: StoltHD <[hidden email]>
X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/)
X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.
     See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
     0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was
blocked.
     See
     http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block
     for more information. [URIs: gramps-project.org]
     -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at
https://www.dnswl.org/, no
     trust [209.85.210.52 listed in list.dnswl.org]
     0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail
provider
     (ennoborg[at]gmail.com)
     0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3 RBL: Good reputation (+3)
     [209.85.210.52 listed in wl.mailspike.net]
     -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record
     0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record
     1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message
     -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from
author's
     domain
     -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature
     0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature,
     not necessarily valid
     0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders
X-Headers-End: 1ifNNe-002pvn-1B
Subject: Re: [Gramps-users] unsubscribe
X-BeenThere: [hidden email]
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21
Precedence: list
List-Id: Gramps user discussion group
<gramps-users.lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe:
<https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/options/gramps-users>,
     
<mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive:
<http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=gramps-users>
List-Post: <mailto:[hidden email]>
List-Help:
<mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help>
List-Subscribe:
<https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-users>,
     
<mailto:[hidden email]?subject=subscribe>
Cc: Gramps-Users <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="===============1886449374468012502=="
Errors-To: [hidden email]
X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, no actual sender determined from check mail
permissions

On 2019-12-12 23:15, Enno Borgsteede wrote:

> Why not? They're humans, not robots, so they should be able to do a
> bit of exploring. I mean, when you buy a computer, you don't get a
> detailed manual on how to use Windows, let alone the internet. You
> learn by exploring, and if you can't learn that way, you shouldn't use
> a computer at all.
>
> What I see here is users that are too lazy to do a bit of reading, and
> when I show them that everything they ask for can be read, I get
> attacked. Why can't I criticize them. Should I expect that list
> members really are too stupid to read?
>

>> Folks, you really can NOT assume that normal users of Gramps knows
>> rhat a info libk is where you find the link to unsubscribe, and you
>> can NOT assume that a normal user knows how to show email headers in
>> a mail client...
>> Let me put it this way, its rude to assume that every user of Gramps
>> or the email list, that actually are the way to get help, even knows
>> that there is anything like a email header!
>>



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